PRAYER BEFORE BALLGAMES?

[action10]

ARP/ATLANTA/GARRISON/MARSHALL/OVERTON/LINDALE are there any more? i am not saying there is anything wrong with a moment of silence. i just would like to have a prayer said as would everyone i have talked to in our community. they shouldn't (school board) always be worried about someone suing us over a prayer because i heard that's why we don't for fear of offending someone and them bringing a lawsuit against the school district!

 

We have student led prayer, just started this year after mnay years of a moment of silence. I allways felt ashamed that silence was the policy and complained on several ocassions. I guess enought people finally had their voices and desires heard. My family and many others are happy and proud to support and encourage this movement and stance. And I might add, elated to have students with the courage and conviction to do so. UHDAWGFAN, I encourage you and others to stand up and voice your concerns. We were at Timpson last Friday and they had prayer as well. I have attended several events at schools across east Texas over the last several years and have noticed a growing trend of moving away from silence to prayer.

[bp1445]

I never said you were NOT Christian. Do not infer. As a Christian, we also have the right to learn about Christianity, do we not?

 

Why are you so quick to be offended? I am not out to pick on you! I respect your right to your opinion, whether I agree or not. I think you went off subject with your comment about Christians being at fault for the world's problems. I can see we probably agree on most of what is said here, I'm just not as quick to go where you did. I do not jump on lost people, and don't know many who do. I pray for them.

 

 

yes I went off subject....i apologize. It was attempt to make the point that the problem is far bigger than whether or not we have prayer in shcool and it didn't come across as that....but the topic was prayer before ballgames and I was not trying to sabotage the thread....dialogue without argument is desperately needed especially at the core of the issue, you and I agree! Please accept my apologies for jumping to conclusions.

[BULLDOGBACKER1]

ARP/ATLANTA/GARRISON/MARSHALL/LINDALE/MT.ENTERPRISE can you think of any others??

 

 

[AnOldBuckeye]

Ok, I'm going to speak my mind on this. First of all, if a student leads the prayers at any school event, there is nothing the ACLU, or anyone else can do about it. As a Christian, it is not my place to condemn anyone for what they believe. I leave that up to God. I ,, like so many others who have posted on this subject, believe Christians (or at least those that claim to believe christian principles) are way way way, far and above in the majority, especially in the Texas school systems. What I wonder about, is why those who profess Christianity, are afraid of something like someone bringing suit against our schools. It should NEVER be something we want to do,,,, offend anyone else,,, but we shouldn't cower down to others who tell us we can't pray to our God. Daniel didn't. And the best way to do that, is to respect anyones right to worship their own way, while doing what we know God wants us to do.

 

I would never intentionally try and offend anyone. I do not go to a football game or school event, to try and force my beliefs on anyone else, or convert someone to Christianity. I go to watch a football game,, etc. But,,,,,, if I were seen praying by someone who was a Muslim, or a Bhuddist, or any other religion, and they came to me and asked me to explain to them about my God, I'd certainly be willing to do so. I would take them outside the stadium, to the parking lot or somewhere, and be a witness to them.

 

The thing is,,, we have organizations like the ACLU,, the People for the American Way,, NOW,, Planned Parenthood,, and any other number of organizations who are ready to stir up a stink anytime anyone says, "I'm offended". So we have to understand that if we want prayer in the schools, or at games or events, we have to be prepared to let other religions have that equal time to do the same. I'm not opposed to that, because during their prayer, I can hum "Amazing Grace" to myself, or continue to pray to God, or observe how nice our field turf is,, while being quiet and respectful at the same time.

 

In the Bible we are told to share our faith with all the world. It's also very Biblical to do all things in a manner that is respectful to anyone we are around. There is a time and a season for all things, and we should be doing what we feel God leads us to do. This nation was founded on Biblical principles, but it is falling away from that. If we as a majority believe in God's direction in our life, then we should stand for what we believe, and since we have been given the right to do so, we should fight to keep that right. We shouldn't pray just because we want to,,, although we "should" want to,,, but we should also pray because God commanded us to.

 

I don't mean for anyone to think I'm being "preachy",, that's not my point. I'm just stating my opinion, that I so badly wish we could and would go back to having prayer in our schools, and at our sporting events, or where ever. It's time our nations citizens would just look around them, at the caustic world we're a part of now, and seriously do some soul searching as to why that is the way things are. And I urge anyone on here who believes the way I do, to speak to your teachers, coaches, and school administration about your desire to have prayer placed back in our schools and their events.

[baseballmom21]

The Garrison varsity and jv football teams pray every day after practice. It is always student led. We also have a t-shirt in our community that says "Bulldogs PRAY before they PLAY". Gotta love that one!!!!!!

[Hookemhorns88]

Hallsville has a moment of silence. I am surprised that they do not have an actual prayer based upon what I have seen, heard, and experienced within the school system regarding "religion". Do I wish that they prayed? You bet I do. Would it be respected by most others? Sure it would. Hallsville has a reputation of being "religion" friendly at school. Not that it is being preached or pushed down kids throats; it is simply not suppressed when someone has something to say. This past Friday we played Marshall and they had a prayer. At the end of the prayer there was a very loud and clear AMEN that seemed to come from our entire band. Made me feel good.

 

My suggestion; movements come from within. Make yourself heard. At the next football game or other event when a "moment of silence" is being observed recite aloud the Lord's Prayer. That is a prayer that many people know and I believe that other people would join in. Who is to stop the masses other than ourselves?

[AnOldBuckeye]

By the way, I changed my avatar to one of Stump Godfrey, our QB, as a vote of thanks. I wish I could find a picture of him and our QB coach Alan Metzel together praying on the sideline after they warm up before games. I hope they know how much I respect their decision to do so,,, unashamed,,, each week. I'm thankful we have kids and coaches who feel this way. I also truly enjoy our games with Tatum each year, because the kids on both teams kneel and pray down by the goalpost before our games. It sure gives me a source of pride at their willingness to stand united in doing this, and I wish more teams would do the same.

[BIG-DADDY]

 

We will have prayer in school as long as there are math tests. If you are a Christian, you will seek to pray

without ceasing (I Thessalonians 5:17); which means you will have a constant awareness of the Lord's

presence wherever you are (home, school, dates, ball games, etc.) and you will communicate with your

heavenly Father about all things.

 

However, since public prayer has been restricted in government subsidized school systems, the question

is: Should we as Christians exercise our religious freedom by demanding our right to pray at school and

school functions? God's word says in Romans 13:1 we are to “be subject to the governing authorities.”

Since civil government is ordained by God for ruling and maintaining order in communities, we are to

respect and obey the laws of the land (even the ones we don't like), so long as those laws do not violate a

specific command from the Lord (Acts 4:18-31; 5:17-29). We are to be model citizens in order to be good

witnesses for Christ.

 

However, when God's laws and man's laws are in conflict, we must always do what is right before God.

Therefore, if I were a student attending a public school today, I would not allow anyone to intimidate me

or keep me from praying before a meal or while taking a test or prior to playing a ball game. But I would

not become belligerent and unnecessarily antagonistic with my prayers. Demanding my right to stand on

the front steps of the school each morning, shouting a public prayer before the student body in defiance

of school authorities is too often self-aggrandizing and only damages our testimony.

 

We are to always do what is honorable and right before God, so all men will see our good deeds and

glorify our heavenly Father in heaven (Matthew 5:16). I believe that includes being a model citizen by

respecting and obeying civil authorities except when their laws or demands directly violate

God’s commands as recorded in His word.

 

[CoachD8]

I can not for the life of me understand how people can do basically anything they want in todays world for the sake of creativity but for some reason we draw the line the line at prayer.

[TransplantedFan]

I love the fact that Atlanta prays before a game. Love that people are respectful of the prayer. My hometown, Refugio, also prays before the games, last time I was there, anyway. If you want additonal team names in TX that pray, try looking for some other forums/boards to ask the same question, you'll be able to widen the scope of your argument against the board.

That being said (on topic :) ), I think that there are a lot of people who have the misconseption that this country was founded on Christianity. There were quite a few of our founding fathers who weren't Christians. This country was founded on freedom of religion, meaning people have a choice. Here's a site that has some quotes from some of the founding father's religious views (or google that phrase to find other stuff) that are pretty revealing, I think. http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/dispatc...hers_quote2.htm

As Christians, yes, we are called to witness and to spread the word of Christ and live lives that are pleasing to Him however, this country was not founded on Christianity. The words "under God" were not added to the pledge until 1954. Do I think that prayer should be before every game? Yes. Would the founding father's agree? Who knows?

[WestwoodPantherPride]

Westwood has a moment of silence, they formerly had a student-led prayer but it has been quite a few years since i remember that happening. good luck getting it reinstated, we let it fall by the wayside without much resistance, doesn't give us much leverage in the fight.

[AnOldBuckeye]

I love the fact that Atlanta prays before a game. Love that people are respectful of the prayer. My hometown, Refugio, also prays before the games, last time I was there, anyway. If you want additonal team names in TX that pray, try looking for some other forums/boards to ask the same question, you'll be able to widen the scope of your argument against the board.

That being said (on topic :) ), I think that there are a lot of people who have the misconseption that this country was founded on Christianity. There were quite a few of our founding fathers who weren't Christians. This country was founded on freedom of religion, meaning people have a choice. Here's a site that has some quotes from some of the founding father's religious views (or google that phrase to find other stuff) that are pretty revealing, I think. http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/dispatc...hers_quote2.htm

As Christians, yes, we are called to witness and to spread the word of Christ and live lives that are pleasing to Him however, this country was not founded on Christianity. The words "under God" were not added to the pledge until 1954. Do I think that prayer should be before every game? Yes. Would the founding father's agree? Who knows?

 

I agree in a sense. But it's kinda a word game here. Our country "Was" founded on Biblical principles. I didn't say it was founded on Christianity. Although from all I've ever read on the subject,,, most of our founding fathers professed to be "Christian". Your right,, at some point,, (1954, or what ever) "under God" was added. But it was also added by the ones with the power to do so. If it was good enough in 1954,, it should still be good enough today. If you want to look at a few "facts",,, check out the facts about how the very next year after the 1962 and 1963 government decisions to remove prayer from our schools,,, that the percentage of violence, (rape, murder, armed robbery etc. )and every violent crime you can imagine, along with teen pregnancy, began to skyrocket upwards. It had a directly proportional correlation to the removal of prayer, and now, our nation is paying the consequence for it's actions.

[tigerpride1]

ARP/ATLANTA/GARRISON/MARSHALL/LINDALE/MT.ENTERPRISE can you think of any others??

 

Correct me if I am wrong (and I am sure someone will) but I believe Paul Pewitt & San Augustine prayed before our game with them. Also, I don't believe they were student led. Not only does Arp pray before EVERY home game, our cheerleaders lead us in the Lord's prayer too. Before all games home and away!

[BIG-DADDY]

Correct me if I am wrong (and I am sure someone will) but I believe Paul Pewitt & San Augustine prayed before our game with them. Also, I don't believe they were student led. Not only does Arp pray before EVERY home game, our cheerleaders lead us in the Lord's prayer too. Before all games home and away!

We do but not at every Game? Wish we would.............

 

[voiceofthecats]

UHDAWGFAN,

 

As Mr. Jackson said, Mount Enterprise recently started having pre-game prayer again after many years of the moment of silence. I had been wondering as I announced the moment of silence at each of our home games if we could go back to student led prayer, because I had noticed that some of the schools in our district were having prayer before the games. I asked the superintendent about this at the beginning of this football season, and after doing research, we came to the conclusion that we would go ahead with it. The pertinent document from the TEA concerning this issue can be found at TEA Link. Basically, it says that if you ask a student to make some "pregame comments," if they choose to pray, there is nothing preventing them from doing so. Of course, we still ask the spectators to stand for the invocation, so we're not following the letter of the law, but there is enough wiggle room that I think everyone would be safe doing the same thing. If your board is really concerned, then the announcer can simply introduce the student who can then ask everyone to stand for the invocation, and you're completely in the clear the way I read the guidelines.

 

As far as it being student led only, the document referenced above says that anyone has the right to express himself as long the speaker is selected "on the basis of genuinely neutral, evenhanded criteria" This means of course, that it doesn't necessarily need to be a student.

I am happy that we have started this practice again.

 

Good luck with your school board.

[TransplantedFan]

OldBuckeye,

Completely agree that it is a word game. A lot of the founding fathers were Christians and some of them weren't. I just think that sometimes people get so carried away with using the founding fathers as a pure, i don't know what word I'm looking for here, I guess reason as to why we do what we do, if that makes sense.

Also agree that there's a direct correlation to taking prayer out of school and the rise of all the crappy stuff and I don't have any problem with 'under God' in the pledge because I think this nation needs to be under His guidance as it's obviously not getting any better with so many people straying.

My mom teaches elementary school and when they were told they couldn't pray any more, told her principal that she wasn't going to stop praying with her kids before lunch or at the beginning of the day. In her opinion, it may be the only chance that some kids have to ask the question about who is God or who is Jesus or why are you praying.

I guess what I'm trying to say is good post :thumbsup:

[TXGOLFER48]

Correct me if I am wrong (and I am sure someone will) but I believe Paul Pewitt & San Augustine prayed before our game with them. Also, I don't believe they were student led. Not only does Arp pray before EVERY home game, our cheerleaders lead us in the Lord's prayer too. Before all games home and away!

 

That is true that SA does and its not student led (not unless its a old student) or atleast at the game Alto played did.

[AnOldBuckeye]

OldBuckeye,

Completely agree that it is a word game. A lot of the founding fathers were Christians and some of them weren't. I just think that sometimes people get so carried away with using the founding fathers as a pure, i don't know what word I'm looking for here, I guess reason as to why we do what we do, if that makes sense.

Also agree that there's a direct correlation to taking prayer out of school and the rise of all the crappy stuff and I don't have any problem with 'under God' in the pledge because I think this nation needs to be under His guidance as it's obviously not getting any better with so many people straying.

My mom teaches elementary school and when they were told they couldn't pray any more, told her principal that she wasn't going to stop praying with her kids before lunch or at the beginning of the day. In her opinion, it may be the only chance that some kids have to ask the question about who is God or who is Jesus or why are you praying.

I guess what I'm trying to say is good post :thumbsup:

 

Thanks,,, and no one can deny the facts about the rise in crime and the moral decay in our society. It's just a fact isn't it?

[action10]

UHDAWGFAN,

 

As Mr. Jackson said, Mount Enterprise recently started having pre-game prayer again after many years of the moment of silence. I had been wondering as I announced the moment of silence at each of our home games if we could go back to student led prayer, because I had noticed that some of the schools in our district were having prayer before the games. I asked the superintendent about this at the beginning of this football season, and after doing research, we came to the conclusion that we would go ahead with it. The pertinent document from the TEA concerning this issue can be found at TEA Link. Basically, it says that if you ask a student to make some "pregame comments," if they choose to pray, there is nothing preventing them from doing so. Of course, we still ask the spectators to stand for the invocation, so we're not following the letter of the law, but there is enough wiggle room that I think everyone would be safe doing the same thing. If your board is really concerned, then the announcer can simply introduce the student who can then ask everyone to stand for the invocation, and you're completely in the clear the way I read the guidelines.

 

As far as it being student led only, the document referenced above says that anyone has the right to express himself as long the speaker is selected "on the basis of genuinely neutral, evenhanded criteria" This means of course, that it doesn't necessarily need to be a student.

I am happy that we have started this practice again.

 

Good luck with your school board.

 

Thanks Voiceofhtecats, you do a great job. I know I told you this last year but I will tell you again, welcome back.

[BULLDOGBACKER1]

I appreciate all the feedback it is very helpful and also makes me feel good to see all the great responses!! OVERTON/ATLANTA/MT.ENTERPRISE/SAN AUGUSTINE/MARSHALL/ARP/GARRISON anymore?

 

 

[nacMC]

nac does nothing. wish we did. we pray before and after the game in the locker room but thats it

[BeatNavy]

Recommend Mount Pleasant pray this Friday night. :notworthy:

[BULLDOGBACKER1]

did someone say tatum does?

 

 

[Thumbsup66]

Well, I've read all the responses and -- against my better judgment -- will add my thoughts to the discussion. Please understand, I'm a Christian and I'm all for prayer.

 

However, the fact is ... the United States is not a "Christian" nation. By that, I mean our founding fathers made it very clear that to be a citizen of this great nation, you did not have to be a Christian. (At the time, of course, to be an English citizen you had to be a member of the Anglican Church.) In fact, you don't have to have a religion at all to be an American citizen. (But I don't recommend it!)

 

The same folks who are championing "freedom to pray" actually want only THEIR brand of prayers. Be honest now: If somebody got on the PA for the pre-game prayer and prayed to Allah, there would be a stampede to the school board to put at end to anymore "Islamic" prayers. And please don't tell me it's OK to have a Christian prayer over the PA because "most" fans in East Texas are Christian. Religion is too important for a prayer to be decided by "majority" vote.

 

Telling someone they can "just leave" if they don't like the Christian prayer seems, well, un-Christian.

 

A "moment of silence" works just fine for me. I can stand there and pray my own prayer in my own way. That's what I'll be doing at the stadium Friday night. I also plan to be in church Sunday praying to my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

Anyway, thanks for letting me express my views. This has been an interesting discussion. Blessings ... and God bless.

[PreachIt]

did someone say tatum does?

 

I sent you a message and in it I believe I pointed out that the players and coaches had prayer in the South endzone-both teams-side by side. They have in the past.

 

You just do it. It really is that simple. Have a kid, or someone from FCA approach the school and request to revive the tradition of a pre-game invocation. They are off the hook b/c it is student led. Have the student council president do it, who ever. The truth is throughout east texas, local pastors are openning games with prayer.

 

The more you make a deal about it, the more you give up power. You have your rights and as long as you exercise those rights, you will keep them. Ultimately it is your(or whoever would be in charge of invocations) responsibility to keep it going.

 

Create a model prayer, pray for the kids, the travel, the sportsmanship and ask God to be a part of these to educational institutions, forgive our mistakes and enable us to move forward as God's creation. Real Simple. Say Amen. Say In Christ's name we pray. Amen.

 

Remember you are praying to Christians and non-Christians. This can be an opportunity to soften the hearts of those who feel marginalized by church, by religion, and by the much of the politicalization and institutionalization of denominational and non-denominational churches.

 

Above all, understand this could be God's way of opening up yet another door that folks might hear the Good News, and ask questions.