UNION HILL SCHOOL BOARD APPOVES PRAYER

[applebutter]

Again you bring my name into something I am not even discussing. So I have started this conspiracy against you? lol As usual you are wrong but I really doubt you will admit it?

If you don't know these two, I apologize.

 

But, after an hour and a half of them accusing me and others of hiding by not giving a real name, and then changing threads, where perhaps by coincidence, you just accused bleeds of hiding by not giving a real name...

 

Today is the first time since I've been on this site that anyone has asked for real world identification.

 

That's a noteworthy alignment of events.

[Guest bleeds]

The gesture was my offer of a name-calling cease-fire. Yes, I called you stupid, but you called me a lot of things as well. We were BOTH out of line.

 

And thank you for the compliment! I'll have an album out in May... a lot more country/rock than my myspace... Perhaps there will be a song about all of this, but I can't promise it won't be an angry one ;)

 

 

Great! Can't wait. Just be fair about how all this happened.

 

Lessons learned, and all that stuff. :thumbsup:

[Guest bleeds]

BTW, LLB, I'm offering you a link to read. It's not an attack, but it might help you next time you stumble onto a conservative site.

 

It was posted on SDC by applebutter.

 

http://www.smoaky.com/forum/index.php?show...c=87645&hl=

[applebutter]

LauraLeeBishop, I'm going to go listen to the music on your myspace page, then I'm going home.

 

Believe it or not, I have work to do, and typing out arguments makes that oh so much less efficient. I hope to see you on here again. Really, if everyone thought the same things, this site would be no fun at all.

 

I looked up NYU on US News. It is indeed a highly ranked school, something in the sixties. I hope you have some scholarship help to pay for that.

 

University of Texas is also a fine school.

 

What I had intended to say during the argument is that no matter what school you attend, graduate from, whatever, you are likely at some point to end up working for someone from a school at which you would turn your nose up. That's not a good idea. Honor the student, not the school.

[applebutter]

That's funny. Break My Fall and the metaphor of the oak tree. Obviously, you know with whom you're dealing.

[applebutter]

You do have a very nice voice. Must be from Texas.

 

Later.

[GilmerFan86]

Listen, this conversation is apparently not going anywhere. We both (liberal and conservative) have arguments to bring to the table. However, I feel like the liberal argument has more of an educational foundation, hints the reason I was curious as to where you all were educated. I was not interested in your names. Nor, am I interested in sending you spam mail. I was hoping to prove a point to you that education does have some effect on political and/or moral beliefs. I feel that you might have sensed where I was going with this. Knowing that you had no college degree (bluepirate) you neglected to reveal any education that you have obtained in fear that I would prove my point to you. I am a firm believer that there is such a correlation between education and opinion. Personally, I was a conservative before I broadened my educational horizons. Now, I have taken the things that I have learned and formed what I believe to be an educated ideology on politics and moral issues. Now I will admit that I have gone a little far with the stupidity rant, but that was just out of anger as I am assuming your comments were too. No hard feelings there. Also, contrary to what you may think, I really do not think that you cant have a "good" opinion without an education. However, I do sincerely believe that with an education, your opinions might have changed as mine did. Bluepirate and Bleeds, I actually do respect that you stand for something so strongly. At least you do not straddle the fence. I just feel that the education ( and yes I am proud of where I go to school) I am obtaining is a major part of the foundation in which my beliefs are formed. I am just curious as to what your belief foundation is.

 

Next, the bottom line is that we have ideological differences in politics and/or moral issues. So, I'll tell you what I believe in a nutshell. I believe that Democrats stand for the small man. How is that related to this whole conversation? I believe that Democrats will stand for the small muslim population in America that feels that they should not be subject to Christian prayer said aloud at a football game. I feel that the Democrats will stand for the woman's right to choose whether or not she needs/wants an abortion. I believe that the Democrat stands for helping the homeless lady in NYC find a meal to eat and a roof to stay under. I believe that the Democrats stand for increased taxes for the wealthy so that the not so fortunate may get a little piece of the pie. I also believe that the democrats stand for federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research so that those with paralysis, alzheimer's and many other set-backs may one day be able to enjoy a normal life.

What exactly do the republicans stand for? Go ahead say pro-life. I actually do understand your stance and argument on this issue. Abortion is a very touchy subject for both sides in fact. It is just an ideological difference in us. This difference does not mean that someone who is pro-choice (which is not pro-abortion) can't be Christian. However, I will stand by all of my arguments made on this issue. So, now that we have taken care of that issue, where do you all stand on the aforementioned issues? Do your beliefs keep in mind those who are less fortunate? Take a look at where I and the democratic party stand on the issues in paragraph 2 and ask yourself, is John Michael Taylor, Laura Lee Bishop, or for that matter anyone who happens to be liberal really a bad person? Now I understand we all disagree on here and have often gone about our disagreements in immature ways, but none of us are bad people. We actually do stand for good things.

[LauraLeeBishop]

You do have a very nice voice. Must be from Texas.

 

Later.

 

Thanks!!

[Rhino2K]

...I was a conservative before I broadened my educational horizons.

 

I leaned towards liberalism when I was younger, but then I "broadened my educational horizons" and earned a Bachelor's degree from Lamar University. That, with life experience, made me what I am today....a proud conservative. :thumbsup:

[BluePirate]

Listen, this conversation is apparently not going anywhere. We both (liberal and conservative) have arguments to bring to the table. However, I feel like the liberal argument has more of an educational foundation, hints the reason I was curious as to where you all were educated. I was not interested in your names. Nor, am I interested in sending you spam mail. I was hoping to prove a point to you that education does have some effect on political and/or moral beliefs. I feel that you might have sensed where I was going with this. Knowing that you had no college degree (bluepirate) you neglected to reveal any education that you have obtained in fear that I would prove my point to you. I am a firm believer that there is such a correlation between education and opinion. Personally, I was a conservative before I broadened my educational horizons. Now, I have taken the things that I have learned and formed what I believe to be an educated ideology on politics and moral issues. Now I will admit that I have gone a little far with the stupidity rant, but that was just out of anger as I am assuming your comments were too. No hard feelings there. Also, contrary to what you may think, I really do not think that you cant have a "good" opinion without an education. However, I do sincerely believe that with an education, your opinions might have changed as mine did. Bluepirate and Bleeds, I actually do respect that you stand for something so strongly. At least you do not straddle the fence. I just feel that the education ( and yes I am proud of where I go to school) I am obtaining is a major part of the foundation in which my beliefs are formed. I am just curious as to what your belief foundation is.

 

I disagree, obviously. I am educated; I just don't have a degree. To answer you question... Early on, my military service shaped my beliefs but now my faith does.

[CAPTTIGER]

Quote........GilmerFan86 ....."I feel like the liberal argument has more of an educational foundation...'........

 

 

What a load of bull. Everyone in my family is a college graduate. Everyone in my wife's family is a college graduate. Almost all of the people I hang out with are college graduates. You sir are on the boarder of being prejudice. You wouldn't say whites are smarter than blacks would you? You wouldn't say Asians are smarter than Latinos would you?

Stating that liberals are more educated than those of us who fall to the right is crazy. Those in my family fall into the medical field, educational field, business field, entrepreneurship, aviation and entertainment. We are all conservatives as are my friends. Matter of fact my mothers IQ is genius level and she is the most conservative of any of us.

 

You need to go to a dentist and have that foot removed from your mouth.

[Rhino2K]

I agree Capt. Only an elitist would make such an ignorant assumption.

[GilmerFan86]

I disagree, obviously. I am educated; I just don't have a degree. To answer you question... Early on, my military service shaped my beliefs but now my faith does.

 

I understand completely where you are coming from. However, I'm still a little unsure if your beliefs keep the not so fortunate in mind when it comes to political issues. I do not and will not slam you for what you believe anymore. So, where do you stand on the issues in paragraph two of my previous post? Does your stance on these issues keep the not so fortunate in mind? I just want to emphasize the point that liberals are not bad people. I think that you might think that we are. So, I would like to compare our stances on these issues and show you that we do care about people.

[Guest bleeds]

Funny. You speak of liberals being for the little man, but statistically, conservatives give exponentially more to charities than do liberals.

 

That notwithstanding, an attempt to answer your questions.

 

Conservatives first and foremost stand for less government interference in our personal lives. That means that conservatives believe we should be taxes as little as possible so we can decide which charities we want to support, as opposed to having the government confiscate our hard-earned money and give it to people who have chosen not to work because they know the government will take care of them.

 

We believe that success should be rewarded, as opposed to punished. Again, those rewards should come in the form of tax breaks FOR THOSE WHO PROVIDE/CREATE JOBS. Do you understand it isn't the little man who provides/creates those jobs? It is the guy who took the chance to start a small business, a business that provides not only for himself, but for the families of his employees. Do you understand when that small business owner is taxed at a confiscatory rate, he has to make changes in his business that will allow him to pay those taxes. That usually consists of either cutting staffing (adds to unemployment), raising prices (inflationary), or cutting production (reduces profits and diminishes tax revenues).

 

We believe that big business should also be rewarded for its success. As much as the left would like to paint Exxon/Mobile as the villain, it is companies such as E/M that provide milliions of jobs. When companies like that are taxed at an exorbidant rate, they have no incentive to succeed. They have no incentive to explore and make it possible for us to cut our dependence on foreign oil, because those profits are going to be taxed. As an aside, high taxes take the wind out of the sails of productivity.

 

Keep this in mind GF. You will never get a job from a poor guy. As such, the guy who gives you a job should be able and encouraged to produce as much of the product he produces without having to give a ridiculously large amount of that to the government so they can redistribute his wealth.

 

Conservatives believe we should be able to, as the COTUS assures, worship/pray whenever we wish. We don't believe activist judges should make that decision for us, as is the case right now.

 

Obviously, we believe that life begins at conception, unlike LLB, and that life is sacred and should be protected.

 

We believe in a strong and ready military so as to be able to thwart those who would seek to do us harm in a swift and effective manner.

 

We believe in freedom of speech, something the left has vowed to limit if Obama is elected by doing away with the free market and force radio/tv stations/networks to air a certain amount of left wing content, regardless of whether anyone is listening/watching it.

 

We believe the COTUS is not a living breathing document. The intent of it does not change, unless activist justices take it upon themselves to change it, as is the situation in which we find ourselves now. And the COTUS says if the document does not give the power to the federal government to do something, then that power lies within the States. My haven't we thrown that out the window?

 

We believe we should be able, again, as assured by the COTUS, to keep and bear arms, to protect ourselves, our families, and our things. We're not right wing fanatics about that. The COTUS gives us that right and we're tired of the left trying to countermand that right.

 

And we believe if you can work, you should work. We believe that too many people sit on their arses and rely on Uncle Sam to take care of them. We are sick of our hard-earned money being forcefully taken from us and given to those who live in a welfare state that has proven itself to be not only self-perpetuating, but ineffective. Welfare begets welfare. There is an entire class of people who have known nothing but a welfare check for generations now. Continuing to give them handouts will do nothing but perpetuate their situations.

 

Once you get your degree and get out into the real world, and start paying taxes, you will see what I am talking about. Charity begins at home, not in Washington DC, and I'm pretty sure it's unconstitutional, though I can't prove it at this time. The more money John Q. Public is allowed to keep and spend, the better off our economy will be. I work for my money. I should be allowed to decide where the lion's share of it is spent.

 

I'll debate any point contained herein. Please forgive any typos. I have not proofed it.

[Rhino2K]

I'm not really sure why, but suddenly this guy comes to mind....

http://dcsbible.files.wordpress.com/2007/1...w=134&h=167

:rolleyes:

[GilmerFan86]

Quote........GilmerFan86 ....."I feel like the liberal argument has more of an educational foundation...'........

 

 

What a load of bull. Everyone in my family is a college graduate. Everyone in my wife's family is a college graduate. Almost all of the people I hang out with are college graduates. You sir are on the boarder of being prejudice. You wouldn't say whites are smarter than blacks would you? You wouldn't say Asians are smarter than Latinos would you?

Stating that liberals are more educated than those of us who fall to the right is crazy. Those in my family fall into the medical field, educational field, business field, entrepreneurship, aviation and entertainment. We are all conservatives as are my friends. Matter of fact my mothers IQ is genius level and she is the most conservative of any of us.

 

You need to go to a dentist and have that foot removed from your mouth.

 

When did I ever say that a conservative opinion couldnt be formed from educational backing? I am not at all prejudice my friend. I feel that there are many respectable, educated conservative republicans. I was just curious as to where yalls opinions came from. I went on to say that my beliefs were formed with educational backing. Never did I say that liberals are smarter than conservatives

[CAPTTIGER]

I understand completely where you are coming from. However, I'm still a little unsure if your beliefs keep the not so fortunate in mind when it comes to political issues. I do not and will not slam you for what you believe anymore. So, where do you stand on the issues in paragraph two of my previous post? Does your stance on these issues keep the not so fortunate in mind? I just want to emphasize the point that liberals are not bad people. I think that you might think that we are. So, I would like to compare our stances on these issues and show you that we do care about people.

 

 

So you care about people.........oh, only the ones already born. You don't mind slaughtering 1.8 million people per year in the USA just because they are in a womb and not ready to vote some give it away liberal into office.

 

[CAPTTIGER]

When did I ever say that a conservative opinion couldnt be formed from educational backing? I am not at all prejudice my friend. I feel that there are many respectable, educated conservative republicans. I was just curious as to where yalls opinions came from. I went on to say that my beliefs were formed with educational backing. Never did I say that liberals are smarter than conservatives

 

 

Typical liberal.........backing down. "liberal argument has more of an educational foundation...'........"

 

You said it.........liberals are more educated than than right wingers. Wrong buck-o. Ever heard of spell check?

 

 

[Guest bleeds]

BTW GilmerFan, you could not be more wrong in your assertion liberalism goes hand in hand with the little man and your stance that liberalism is based in intellectualism. I came to my beliefs by growing up poor. We never once relied on the government for anything (i.e. welfare). My mother worked two jobs to provide for three kids. Everything we ever had we worked for. I now own my own business. I've been told we provide a good product. For that I give thanks to God, and appreciation to my customers.

 

And not to toot my own horn, but I will simply say, I'm no stranger to helping the less fortunate. BluePirate can attest to that.

 

 

[BluePirate]

I understand completely where you are coming from. However, I'm still a little unsure if your beliefs keep the not so fortunate in mind when it comes to political issues. I do not and will not slam you for what you believe anymore. So, where do you stand on the issues in paragraph two of my previous post? Does your stance on these issues keep the not so fortunate in mind? I just want to emphasize the point that liberals are not bad people. I think that you might think that we are. So, I would like to compare our stances on these issues and show you that we do care about people.

 

Okay then, I'll say it. I don't think liberals as a group are bad. Look John Michael... I'm a veteran firefighter, so you're going to have an exceedingly difficult time arguing that I don't care about people.

 

BTW... Since I'm a union member and former union president, I may not be as far right as you have me pegged. :whome:

[Guest bleeds]

As fate would have it, I'm a career firefighter, former union president, and union member too.

 

Still think you have us pegged JMT?

[Guest Sideliner]

Whats up oak buddies?

[Medman7]

I'm not nearly as concerned with your name as I am with where you were educated. None of you have told us where you went to school or where you didnt go but wished you had the grades to get in. My "hypothesis" is that many of you do not have any college education and for those of you who do, it is probably from sub-par institutions (Is Northeast Texas Community College an institution? Lets see here, how about Kilgore?) In fact, I do take great pride in my school because it is one of the finer schools in the nation. So, in order for me to gather data to support my hypothesis, please post where you were educated. I will then test the hypothesis multiple times and perhaps we will find that there is some scientific correlation (for those of you who are not educated, correlation means similarity) between education and opinion.

 

Please post accordingly

 

Ignorance comes from all educational and socioecomic backgrounds and you are proving it all too well. IF you want to be so pompus in you braggery then why don't you do some research and see how many people that are of such high education standards as you are slap freaking crazy and dellusional. The state institutions are full of masters degrees and PhD's. And no, they are not taking care of the patients. They are the patients. In your attempts at this lame scientific study you are obviously not qualified enough to take in the plethora of factors that are involved with anyone here much less determine anything about them as you wallow in your think tank in misery because you cannot figure us out.

 

In all of your pomus elitism to degrade everyone of lesser education level, all that you have done is reveal your insecurity that someone with less education can actually be smarter than you! Education is but a small factor in personal opinion. Your hypothesis is busted!

[applebutter]

Listen, this conversation is apparently not going anywhere. We both (liberal and conservative) have arguments to bring to the table. However, I feel like the liberal argument has more of an educational foundation, hints the reason I was curious as to where you all were educated. I was not interested in your names. Nor, am I interested in sending you spam mail. I was hoping to prove a point to you that education does have some effect on political and/or moral beliefs. I feel that you might have sensed where I was going with this. Knowing that you had no college degree (bluepirate) you neglected to reveal any education that you have obtained in fear that I would prove my point to you. I am a firm believer that there is such a correlation between education and opinion. Personally, I was a conservative before I broadened my educational horizons. Now, I have taken the things that I have learned and formed what I believe to be an educated ideology on politics and moral issues. Now I will admit that I have gone a little far with the stupidity rant, but that was just out of anger as I am assuming your comments were too. No hard feelings there. Also, contrary to what you may think, I really do not think that you cant have a "good" opinion without an education. However, I do sincerely believe that with an education, your opinions might have changed as mine did. Bleeds, I actually do respect that you stand for something so strongly. At least you do not straddle the fence. I just feel that the education ( and yes I am proud of where I go to school) I am obtaining is a major part of the foundation in which my beliefs are formed. I am just curious as to what your belief foundation is.

 

Next, the bottom line is that we have ideological differences in politics and/or moral issues. So, I'll tell you what I believe in a nutshell. I believe that Democrats stand for the small man. How is that related to this whole conversation? I believe that Democrats will stand for the small muslim population in America that feels that they should not be subject to Christian prayer said aloud at a football game. I feel that the Democrats will stand for the woman's right to choose whether or not she needs/wants an abortion. I believe that the Democrat stands for helping the homeless lady in NYC find a meal to eat and a roof to stay under. I believe that the Democrats stand for increased taxes for the wealthy so that the not so fortunate may get a little piece of the pie. I also believe that the democrats stand for federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research so that those with paralysis, alzheimer's and many other set-backs may one day be able to enjoy a normal life.

What exactly do the republicans stand for? Go ahead say pro-life. I actually do understand your stance and argument on this issue. Abortion is a very touchy subject for both sides in fact. It is just an ideological difference in us. This difference does not mean that someone who is pro-choice (which is not pro-abortion) can't be Christian. However, I will stand by all of my arguments made on this issue. So, now that we have taken care of that issue, where do you all stand on the aforementioned issues? Do your beliefs keep in mind those who are less fortunate? Take a look at where I and the democratic party stand on the issues in paragraph 2 and ask yourself, is John Michael Taylor, Laura Lee Bishop, or for that matter anyone who happens to be liberal really a bad person? Now I understand we all disagree on here and have often gone about our disagreements in immature ways, but none of us are bad people. We actually do stand for good things.

Education allows one to look at an issue from angles not afforded the less educated. That's it. No other advantage is gained. In fact. there is s fairly large body of evidence that education can hobble as well as enlighten. Most patents to individuals are awarded to people with something less than a bachelor's degree.

 

Then, there's the possibility of indoctrination. Three questions: Are your attitudes on abortion and politics in general more like your professors than they were when you started college? And, did you come to your current understanding of abortion and politics in general in college, or were they already in place before you went? Are there any people you know with a comparable level of education to yourself that have differing opinions?

 

My guess for you would be Yes, Yes (in college), and No. I say this because you have somehow come to the conclusion that you are learning Truth (with a capital T) at college. You are not. What you are learning is mostly valuable for what it shows you about learning. Certainly, if you're a chemist, learning the periodic table is important. If you're a musician, learning 12 tone is very useful. But, let's say you're an architect. What you learn in college is merely the base for future learning. And, if you look deeply enough, this is true for ALL disceplines, without exception.

 

I read a piece by someone a long time ago and they described two different types of schools. He called them Schools (capital S) and schools. A School is an official place of learning. A school is not, but learning takes place anyway. You seem to have too much respect for Schools and not enough for schools.

 

At this point, right now. I have more of both kinds than you do. I don't have a doctorate, so you may pass me up, and chances are good that you will live to be older than I am now, and if you pay attention, that may translate to knowlege.

 

But don't be so arrogant as to think that because you have had a class that you must know more or more deeply than someone else. If you think that way often, someone will crush you, and do it happily.

 

If you are moral, there is a chance for reconciliation. There really aren't many moral systems. Every one is based on absolutes. If your system doesn't allow absolutes, it's not a moral system. If your system isn't moral, your going to have a hard time communicating values with someone who's system has absolutes.

 

Abortion: My argument with LauraLeeBishop was not trivial, although you might think it is. When a child becomes a human is the primary question. I don't believe that contact with magic body parts will turn a useless clump of cells into a human. I cannot agree that inside a woman there is a mass of cells, a zygote, or a fetus, that will magically become a baby if only you take it out.

 

It's harsh, I know, but there is a responsibility that comes with the equipment. If you can't keep your parts from producing, you had best get used to the idea that every time there is an abortion, there is a death. And if you choose that death, you have killed. By the way, I haven't always felt this way. Something about actually raising kids changed the way I think. Attribute it to little s school.

 

The last think I'm going to comment on is your "what do Republicans stand for?" question. Honestly, I don't know. In the northeast, Republicans look just like Democrats. In the south, Democrats look just like Republicans. Republicans and Democrats both are associations that change whenever the wind blows.

 

One thing that almost everyone agrees with is that the government screws up pretty much everything it does. This isn't true, but it is if you compare functions that people do for profit with government operations. So, why do liberals or progressives or communists or fascists push every function into government control?

 

If you show me something that can be done for a profit, I'll show you something the government has no business doing. Military functions, obviously can't be trusted to private concerns. But really, that's about the whole thing. Everything else is better done when someone is looking for the most efficient way to do it.

[GilmerFan86]

BTW GilmerFan, you could not be more wrong in your assertion liberalism goes hand in hand with the little man and your stance that liberalism is based in intellectualism. I came to my beliefs by growing up poor. We never once relied on the government for anything (i.e. welfare). My mother worked two jobs to provide for three kids. Everything we ever had we worked for. I now own my own business. I've been told we provide a good product. For that I give thanks to God, and appreciation to my customers.

And not to toot my own horn, but I will simply say, I'm no stranger to helping the less fortunate. BluePirate can attest to that.

 

So here is a scenario.

You are a hard-working man at a factory who goes to work each day, never late, and do all that you can to work and provide for your family. One day on your way home, you are involved in a serious car accident. The result is that you are left paralyzed from the chest down. Things get worse in the next two days when out of the blue, your insurance company drops you. So here you are with a family to support no job, no insurance. What are you supposed to do? Do you guys live by the good ol statement "pull yourself up by your own boot-straps?" Is it wrong for the government to give a little assistance? One point I want to make here is that people do need help. You do not know what each person's circumstance is. I find it to be a little greedy when those who are making it are unwilling to lend a helping hand to those who arent.

One last thing, the embryonic stem-cell research (which might I add is extremely promising) for your paralysis has been halted because the Republican president feels that the government is not obligated to fund such a program. Thus, your chances of walking again become more narrow. Heaven forbid that the government lend a helping hand here. Just pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, you will be fine.