Immortal13 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 What do y'all think about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdawg16 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I do not mind the restrictions. It seems like to me when you have those restrictions and people follow them plus the ample amount of rain we have had over the last two summers ( compared to most summers ) that the bucks have improved a lot..at least on our place they have. As i get older it is also easier for me to pass up on a buck..when i was younger i was all gung ho over a spike! lol I think there should be some kind of stipulation for youth hunters to shoot a buck no matter what size horns though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrilla04 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I don't mind the restrictions either... We've had a 14'' rule on our lease for about 15 years now so it really doesn't affect us, but we have always had the rule that you can shoot a buck that is under 14'' if it is an old deer and needs to be shot. The 13'' antler restriction takes this away because now we can't shoot inferior deer that need to be shot and not breeding. I think there should be a law for this. I saw a 5 and a half year old 6 point the other day that ran every buck off in sight and I couldn't shoot him because he's prolly only 10'' wide... just goes straight up. And I agree with bigdawg16... on youth weekend they should be able to shoot any buck, but just on youth weekend IMO. That way we get more young hunters out in the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medman7 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Thus far I am seeing an improvement in the quality of deer. Seeing more 6-8 points that spike is really great to me. I like what it has done thus far. I was reluctant about it in the beginning, but things are not looking half bad right now. The only down side is the number of big city folks that will have everything leased up from the locals as the quality of the bucks continues to go up. Between the timber companies raising prices and the wealthy city fols outbidding the locals for leases it is getting tougher and tougher to find places anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal13 Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Thus far I am seeing an improvement in the quality of deer. Seeing more 6-8 points that spike is really great to me. I like what it has done thus far. I was reluctant about it in the beginning, but things are not looking half bad right now. The only down side is the number of big city folks that will have everything leased up from the locals as the quality of the bucks continues to go up. Between the timber companies raising prices and the wealthy city fols outbidding the locals for leases it is getting tougher and tougher to find places anymore. So, based on these reasons would antler restrictions be a good thing or bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medman7 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Catch 22! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal13 Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 OK, I'll ask a different question: is this something that Texas Parks and Wildlife should be doing, and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrilla04 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I think it is something that TP&W should be doing because overall, even with poachers and cheaters, it will improve the quality of bigger bucks. As I mentioned in my previous reply I think there should be a few rules added with the restrictions policy, such as inferior deer being taken and youth weekend being able to take any buck, but all in all IMO the antler restrictions will serve as a great management purpose and within 5 years everyone that hunts around here will see a noticeable change... Most likely sooner than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal13 Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 OK, after reading a few responses, here's my take on the subject. Admittedly, I am a duck hunter at heart, but on occasion I do like to deer hunt. I have killed many deer with both gun and bow. A number of the deer I have killed in the past would not be legal in the antler restricted counties today. Now, I do like a "big rack"(winkwink) as much as the next guy, but I have a major problem with TP&W getting into the rack management business when that is not their mandate. On their own website TP&W overall responsibility is to "protect fish and wildlife" in the state of Texas. So, if the population of a particular game animal is in trouble, such as deer, TP&W is required to do whatever is necessary to correct the problem, such as decreasing bag limits or suspending hunting of said species in certain counties or regions. The rack size of whitetail bucks has nothing to do with the overall health of the herd. Believe me, I do understand the motivation behind this management effort. Bigger overall racks in Texas = more out of state hunters = more revenue. Like I said, I have no problem with bucks having bigger racks, but telling people that they cannot shoot a smaller racked deer on their own property is ridiculous. Some people do not care about rack size at all. They just want some meat. There are tons of ranches in this state that manage rack size on their herd. It's big business is this state and it seems TP&W wants in on the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medman7 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 It all boils down to dollars and cents with the TP&W. They know full well that if they get the quality up that it willdraw in more hunters from other states and give them more money in their budgets. THat is if the Texas lawmakers put it where it is supposed to go! A few years ago I would have fought you on tooth and nail on this issue but I am seeing some improvements now and think it is a good thing. Several years ago when they opened the gates and allowed people to kill 4 does a season a piece, it devistated the deer populations in many places. Many areas still have not recovered yet. THere are still areas in East Texas where you can hunt in the woods and not see but one or less deer a month. Belive it or not it is true. Sadly these are areas that once flourished in deer. I think these areas are some of th areas that they are targeting. They might not get it up to West Texas populations anytime soon, but it would be nice to see it get close around here. Unles you are on a good lease, many places in East Texas are not the best places to get a young hunter started because they get board from not seeing any deer for long periods of time. It would deffinitely give a great incentive to see deer more often thatn not in order to keep a youg hunter interested until the get their first kill. FIghting with the hogs for food will be the next obstacle to overcome for the deer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal13 Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 It all boils down to dollars and cents with the TP&W. They know full well that if they get the quality up that it willdraw in more hunters from other states and give them more money in their budgets. THat is if the Texas lawmakers put it where it is supposed to go! A few years ago I would have fought you on tooth and nail on this issue but I am seeing some improvements now and think it is a good thing. Several years ago when they opened the gates and allowed people to kill 4 does a season a piece, it devistated the deer populations in many places. Many areas still have not recovered yet. THere are still areas in East Texas where you can hunt in the woods and not see but one or less deer a month. Belive it or not it is true. Sadly these are areas that once flourished in deer. I think these areas are some of th areas that they are targeting. They might not get it up to West Texas populations anytime soon, but it would be nice to see it get close around here. Unles you are on a good lease, many places in East Texas are not the best places to get a young hunter started because they get board from not seeing any deer for long periods of time. It would deffinitely give a great incentive to see deer more often thatn not in order to keep a youg hunter interested until the get their first kill. FIghting with the hogs for food will be the next obstacle to overcome for the deer. Sorry, but antler restrictions have nothing to do with increasing the number of deer in East Texas or anywhere else. The deer population in East Texas has been on the rise for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locutus Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Immortal I agree with you 100%. Excellent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrilla04 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 The restriction is all about getting bigger overall bucks. I think it is a good thing because I am a trophy hunter and as a person who doesn't have much land to hunt, if I pass up a small buck and it crosses the fence and someone else shoots it, it makes it hard to get mature bucks grown. Meat hunters should shoot their does and leave the small bucks which is best for both the meat hunters and the trophy hunters, in which both benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardad Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Most people would gladly shoot does for meat but if you hunt in counties like upshur you only get 4 days a year to do that. If the weather turns bad for those days then your chance for a doe are gone. If your neighbor has their land under a management plan then the biologist will give them ridiculous numbers of doe tags but the rest of us are not allowed to shoot a doe. If the numbers are really equal to what the biologist are giving in doe tags for these management leases then why not give everyone 1 doe a year to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bshffl Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 In western Upshur Co. i dont believe we should be shooting any does. im just now starting to see the deer #s starting to pick back up. 20 Years ago we had deer every where then they started handing out all those doe tags the deer slowly disappeared. Ishot a few does my self but i trusted the tpwd.If i had known it was going to ruin the deer pop. i would of never of done it. Its just my opinion but Upshur Co. just doesnt have the #s of deer to require killing off all of the does that produce the the deer to get our #s back up. The bucks arent dieing off in Upshur Co. because off over population of deer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farminintx Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I like the antler restriction because it wil both increase the age, quality , and numbers of deer in east Tx. Deer numbers are on the rise from recent years. I have hunted East Tx. my whole life. When i was young we saw plenty of deer. Then in the late 80s and early 90s , TP&W opened up does to harvest and the numbers plummeted. It boils down to if everyone had common sense and let younger bucks live and harvested those that needed harvesting, hunting would be awesome. However, most people blast whatever comes out, regardless of age, sex, etc. Prices of deer leases are not effected by this restriction. Lease fees are going up due to the fact that corporations and some individuals have the money to lease up or buy hunting rights or the property outright. Just take the land in south texas, you could have bought all the land in the hill country for $250/ acre in the 80s. That same land is now selling for $5000/ acre. This is brought on by the "big Buck" theory that south Texas has created for themselves. Not only are people in Texas paying these prices, people from all over the United States are coming here to hunt. Maybe if our economy does hit a recession, hunting leases will become more affordable to the common man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medman7 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Sorry, but antler restrictions have nothing to do with increasing the number of deer in East Texas or anywhere else. The deer population in East Texas has been on the rise for decades. I did not say anything about about it's primary purpose being to increase the population. I think, which is my opinion, that they are trying to increas the quality of the bucks as a whole for all areas. This is especially helpful in certain targeted areas where the deer kills are overwhelmingly immature in some areas because some people kill every last deer they see. In your neck of the woods, you probably have an excellent population. That is not true everywhere. Some areas have great populations in certain areas of the county but are still lacking in others. The population hasn't quite gotten to where it was in all areas of every county, if that helps wxplain the point. When it comes to it aiding population growth, any restriction that allows deer to live to a more mature age before being harvasted has the effect of increasing the population. The polualtion growth is a secondary effect of the restriction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five0pd310 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 This may not have anything to do with the antler restrictions, but we have seen a marked DECREASE in total buck population. Of the bow hunters this season no bucks have been taken and none with a 13" spread has even been seen. And our lease has always been known for it's large bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medman7 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I have hear a lot of complaints about the bucks being nocturnal right now. Most of the buck pictures off of my game camera have been at night also. It will probably take the full rut to get them out of the nocturnal habits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farminintx Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I agree that earlier in the year the bucks i had on my camera were at night. i am now getting daytime pics and also seeing a few bucks during the day. I think the large, early kept everything but the hos from coming to the feeders. Deer movemant early on was minimal at best. As the acorns rot and the rut begins, those bucks you are not seeing will begin moving around. I do however believe there needs to be a stipulation that you should be able to remove older under acheieving bucks from the herd. Overall the antler restrictions will work if given time and proper usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medman7 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 The only problem you would have on the aged bucks is that way too many out there do not know how to age deer on the hoof. There are still a lot that shoot every deer they see period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal13 Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 I did not say anything about about it's primary purpose being to increase the population. I think, which is my opinion, that they are trying to increas the quality of the bucks as a whole for all areas. This is especially helpful in certain targeted areas where the deer kills are overwhelmingly immature in some areas because some people kill every last deer they see. In your neck of the woods, you probably have an excellent population. That is not true everywhere. Some areas have great populations in certain areas of the county but are still lacking in others. The population hasn't quite gotten to where it was in all areas of every county, if that helps wxplain the point. When it comes to it aiding population growth, any restriction that allows deer to live to a more mature age before being harvasted has the effect of increasing the population. The polualtion growth is a secondary effect of the restriction. Sorry, guess I misinterpreted your post. I agree that is what TPW is trying to do. They are trying to produce bigger racks to hopefully cash in on more OOS revenue. That's all fine and dandy, except that it is NOT their place to be doing that. I have no problem with private leases and managed ranches doing whatever they want, but TP&W needs to stick to their mandated purpose. FIVE0, sorry but shooting a young buck vs. an older one has no proven effect on the total number of bucks or total deer population. I wholeheartedly agree with the poster who mentioned allowing does for those who just want a meat deer. That is why I like to bowhunt. In many counties does cannot be taken in general season. However, restricting or expanding doe harvest obviously impacts deer population and therefore should be regulated by TP&W. Horn size, however, should not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five0pd310 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 FIVE0, sorry but shooting a young buck vs. an older one has no proven effect on the total number of bucks or total deer population. I wholeheartedly agree with the poster who mentioned allowing does for those who just want a meat deer. That is why I like to bowhunt. In many counties does cannot be taken in general season. However, restricting or expanding doe harvest obviously impacts deer population and therefore should be regulated by TP&W. Horn size, however, should not. I didn't say that it did. Here is what I actually said..... This may not have anything to do with the antler restrictions, but we have seen a marked DECREASE in total buck population. Of the bow hunters this season no bucks have been taken and none with a 13" spread has even been seen. And our lease has always been known for it's large bucks. I believe that it is probably a coincidence. I can't know that for a fact, though. The only reason that I leave it as an option is because I have been pondering this possibility.... It is a fact that your 13" - 15" deer are your top breeders. If each season you're leaving only chronic sub 13" bucks for breeding material, that may lead to a DECREASE in quality. Because East Texas is not like South Texas. Not every blood line of white tail has the capability of big racks. Around here, there may only be a handfull of 13" spreads each season for any particular piece of land. If those deer are the only ones taken then the only ones left to breed are either young bucks or the genetically inferior bucks. This antler restriction thing was tested in South Texas first and they found it to be successful. That's great. I agree that down there it is a very good rule to go by because every buck down there has the potential to be 20" deer. a 15" deer at the 777 ranch is a baby. Here that is not the case. Any deer in North East Texas that is over 15" is considered by most to be a very nice, trouphy buck. If this is not the case, then fine. But it has not been studied here where antler size is not on par with other areas. It's like testing an area for pine tree growth in the desert, then applying the results to a place like Lousiana or East Texas. It's not going to work like you planned because the places are so different. I just think it needs to be studied in a closed environment first with deer genetically similar to ours before they begin making laws to regulate it. Laws many times can have the reverse outcome than the desired effect intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats51 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 An old buddy of mine put it in simple words, "If you kill em when they are young, you never get to see them as full grown." He raises deer and has some amazing racks do to this practice. Some in the 200 class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medman7 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 From my understanding they are supposed to add several more counties next year. I reckon that over the next few years the whole state will be under these guidelines. You are right about there being a lot of uncertainties to be examined with this FiveO. Traditional East Texas hunter have never been able to let bucks of any size walk off for fear the it will just get killed by someone else and then they may not see another one! Look at the link below. There is a map that indicates where the restrictions will be coming next! http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/...r_restrictions/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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