BluePirate Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Though at times ugly, I have enjoyed the banter in the thread about school prayer. I thought I would create a thread more encompassing of the meandering topics in hopes of bringing more members to the discussion. GilmerFan is attempting to make the point that the more education one has the more liberal they are. Clearly, the connection he desires so much to make is not there. However, there is indeed a connection between how hard one works and how conservative they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owensas Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 how hard one works and how conservative they are. sounds like some other politician i heard the other day http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/100...od.html?showall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufusJones Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Personally I believe that only someone with an elitest attitude would make such a ridicules statement, that more education=more liberal. I think education has nothing to do with it. You are right BP, conservatives normally are the ones who actually work, pay taxes, create jobs etc. People who are liberal rarely get off the porch. It reminds me of property taxes. Those who do not own property will be the first to vote for high taxes on property. And some, not all who pay zero income tax are the first to vote for higher taxes on those that already pay an income tax! Something is wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufusJones Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 sounds like some other politician i heard the other day Did he say something wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owensas Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Did he say something wrong? Yes, he did, the same kinds of statements the entire campaign have been making that have not only been pushing away independents and making it impossible for democrats to swing over, but is also starting to push away republicans. Its kind of sad really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applebutter Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I can boil it down to the essence: Conservatives are the ones that pay taxes, liberals are the ones that reap the benefits. High achievers pay more taxes. Lazy slobs and professional students get more government aid. I can back that up, but I'll be willing to look at someone elses numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluePirate Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Yes, he did, the same kinds of statements the entire campaign have been making that have not only been pushing away independents and making it impossible for democrats to swing over, but is also starting to push away republicans. Its kind of sad really. The connection between how hard one works and how conservative they are is clear. I realize you disagree, but can you offer anything to disprove it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufusJones Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I'm wondering what the liberals and dems are going to do when enough of us conservatives decide that we are sick of paying everyone else's way and say to hell with it! I quit too! I'll stay at home, set on my porch, and watch TV all day. The govt can just take care of all of us! What then? Owen, will you be willing to go to work all day, every day, and pay enough taxes to take care of my lazy butt? Hmm? Yes or No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owensas Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I'm wondering what the liberals and dems are going to do when enough of us conservatives decide that we are sick of paying everyone else's way and say to hell with it! I quit too! I'll stay at home, set on my porch, and watch TV all day. The govt can just take care of all of us! What then? Owen, will you be willing to go to work all day, every day, and pay enough taxes to take care of my lazy butt? Hmm? Yes or No? Heck yes i will, because i'm going to be hard at work with corrupting your kids brains into believing liberalism is the only way to go. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applebutter Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Heck yes i will, because i'm going to be hard at work with corrupting your kids brains into believing liberalism is the only way to go. :thumbsup: At least you will until the Purge. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufusJones Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Sorry..my kids are grown and they would kick your #### and tell you where to go! Oh..and after the first couple of weeks, you would get tired of all your hard earned money going to those who refuse to work. And if you say you wouldn't, then you are a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medman7 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Obama's share the wealth BS is not going to do aything be encourage laziness. Besides, if he would do a little research his plan is already in use. It is called the Earned Income Tax Credit! EIC recipients already receive way more than they pay into the system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Owen, care to give us reasons why liberalism is better than conservativism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medman7 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I would guess that is closer to anarchy where they can get away with murder as they basically are now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 This is my response to a question by GilmerFan/John Micheal Taylor inquiring as to what conservatives believe. While lengthy, I will admit it's probably incomplete. The first comment is in response to a comment by him about liberals/democrats being for the little man. I felt it was appropriate to include it in this thread. Funny. You speak of liberals being for the little man, but statistically, conservatives give exponentially more to charities than do liberals. That notwithstanding, an attempt to answer your questions. Conservatives first and foremost stand for less government interference in our personal lives. That means that conservatives believe we should be taxes as little as possible so we can decide which charities we want to support, as opposed to having the government confiscate our hard-earned money and give it to people who have chosen not to work because they know the government will take care of them. We believe that success should be rewarded, as opposed to punished. Again, those rewards should come in the form of tax breaks FOR THOSE WHO PROVIDE/CREATE JOBS. Do you understand it isn't the little man who provides/creates those jobs? It is the guy who took the chance to start a small business, a business that provides not only for himself, but for the families of his employees. Do you understand when that small business owner is taxed at a confiscatory rate, he has to make changes in his business that will allow him to pay those taxes. That usually consists of either cutting staffing (adds to unemployment), raising prices (inflationary), or cutting production (reduces profits and diminishes tax revenues). We believe that big business should also be rewarded for its success. As much as the left would like to paint Exxon/Mobile as the villain, it is companies such as E/M that provide milliions of jobs. When companies like that are taxed at an exorbidant rate, they have no incentive to succeed. They have no incentive to explore and make it possible for us to cut our dependence on foreign oil, because those profits are going to be taxed. As an aside, high taxes take the wind out of the sails of productivity. Keep this in mind GF. You will never get a job from a poor guy. As such, the guy who gives you a job should be able and encouraged to produce as much of the product he produces without having to give a ridiculously large amount of that to the government so they can redistribute his wealth. Conservatives believe we should be able to, as the COTUS assures, worship/pray whenever we wish. We don't believe activist judges should make that decision for us, as is the case right now. Obviously, we believe that life begins at conception, unlike LLB, and that life is sacred and should be protected. We believe in a strong and ready military so as to be able to thwart those who would seek to do us harm in a swift and effective manner. We believe in freedom of speech, something the left has vowed to limit if Obama is elected by doing away with the free market and force radio/tv stations/networks to air a certain amount of left wing content, regardless of whether anyone is listening/watching it. We believe the COTUS is not a living breathing document. The intent of it does not change, unless activist justices take it upon themselves to change it, as is the situation in which we find ourselves now. And the COTUS says if the document does not give the power to the federal government to do something, then that power lies within the States. My haven't we thrown that out the window? We believe we should be able, again, as assured by the COTUS, to keep and bear arms, to protect ourselves, our families, and our things. We're not right wing fanatics about that. The COTUS gives us that right and we're tired of the left trying to countermand that right. And we believe if you can work, you should work. We believe that too many people sit on their arses and rely on Uncle Sam to take care of them. We are sick of our hard-earned money being forcefully taken from us and given to those who live in a welfare state that has proven itself to be not only self-perpetuating, but ineffective. Welfare begets welfare. There is an entire class of people who have known nothing but a welfare check for generations now. Continuing to give them handouts will do nothing but perpetuate their situations. Once you get your degree and get out into the real world, and start paying taxes, you will see what I am talking about. Charity begins at home, not in Washington DC, and I'm pretty sure it's unconstitutional, though I can't prove it at this time. The more money John Q. Public is allowed to keep and spend, the better off our economy will be. I work for my money. I should be allowed to decide where the lion's share of it is spent. I'll debate any point contained herein. Please forgive any typos. I have not proofed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhornfan Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 This is just my opinion, there is no evidence found on the vast internet to support it. I think conservatives and liberals both work hard. Conservatives give more money to charities, liberals give more time to charities. Conservatives want to take care of their families while liberals want to take care of everybody. It's like a different way of living. Conservatives believe they are being treating unfairly because they have to pay a higher percentage of taxes as they make more money. Liberals want to take money from the rich and give to just about everybody for whatever reason. Again, these are just opinions. Also, I don't consider people that sit around and do nothing except take handouts to be a part of either group. They are the derelicts of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fivehead Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Conservatives believe they are being treating unfairly because they have to pay a higher percentage of taxes as they make more money. I'm going to show you something that you may not have ever seen, but I think most of it will be familiar to you. 1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes. 2. A heavy graduated or progressive income tax. 3. Abolition of rights of inheritance. 4. Confiscation of the property of emigrants and rebels. 5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state. 6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state. 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state. 8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town & country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country. 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Know where this comes from? These are the 10 planks of the Communist manifesto. That might explain why conservatives might feel they are being treated unfairly by a graduated income tax. Look the list over. Do 2,3,5,6,7 & 10 look familiar? That's because all of these have, in whole or in part, become a part of OUR system of government, thanks to leftists like yourself. If Obama wins and Congressional democrats gain a super-majority, look for a full implementation of all 10 planks. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhornfan Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Does this sound better? Conservatives are opposed to higher tax percentage based on higher income. Also, do you refer to me as a "leftist" because I'm not as far right as you? In which case I would be a leftist compared to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owensas Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Owen, care to give us reasons why liberalism is better than conservativism? its my personal opinion that you are mixing to very different ideas. I mean yes the term liberalism comes from classical liberalism which was heavily based on economics and such, but i think the term liberal has evolved to apply to social issues. I personally find my stance to be more socially liberal/fiscially conservative. However, i'm not going to get a true fiscially conservative leader this presidency, so instead I just believe Obama has the better plan for the economy(we can debate that until the cows come home), and i agree with his beliefs when it comes to social issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufusJones Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 its my personal opinion that you are mixing to very different ideas. I mean yes the term liberalism comes from classical liberalism which was heavily based on economics and such, but i think the term liberal has evolved to apply to social issues. I personally find my stance to be more socially liberal/fiscially conservative. However, i'm not going to get a true fiscially conservative leader this presidency, so instead I just believe Obama has the better plan for the economy(we can debate that until the cows come home), and i agree with his beliefs when it comes to social issues. Ok, so answer his question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 its my personal opinion that you are mixing to very different ideas. I mean yes the term liberalism comes from classical liberalism which was heavily based on economics and such, but i think the term liberal has evolved to apply to social issues. I personally find my stance to be more socially liberal/fiscially conservative. However, i'm not going to get a true fiscially conservative leader this presidency, so instead I just believe Obama has the better plan for the economy(we can debate that until the cows come home), and i agree with his beliefs when it comes to social issues. Translated: I can't make a lucid arguement for liberalism, and so I'm going to use a tried-and-true liberal ploy: Change the subject. Can I take that as you admitting you can't answer the question? Keep in mind, the thread topic is liberalism vs conservatism. I've given you conservative tenents and made the comparison. Why can't you defend your position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owensas Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Ok, so answer his question! why do i believe liberalism is better the conservatives? In the social sense? I think Love is love and thus people should be free to love and be bonded(not marriage since you people are so uptight about that) with someone no matter the sex. I think a woman has the right to choose what goes on with her body, and i believe she should be able to make that choice without being labeled a murderer and scorned in the community. I think we need to be more open to all people of all faiths and religions, i remember Colin Powell talking about people saying Obama was a muslim incorrectly and he paused and asked, "why should it matter?" I think we need to push forwards in all kinds of sciences, including stem cell research. I think cloning is a very important idea that needs to be pushed. I believe we need to push scientific research way past what we are right now. (the last three aren't necesarilly liberal or conservative, but you will find more liberals agreeing with that over conservatives) Just a few things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owensas Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Translated: I can't make a lucid arguement for liberalism, and so I'm going to use a tried-and-true liberal ploy: Change the subject. Can I take that as you admitting you can't answer the question? Keep in mind, the thread topic is liberalism vs conservatism. I've given you conservative tenents and made the comparison. Why can't you defend your position? and like i said, liberalism to me applies to social issues, now if you want to go with the liberals as being evil socialists then we can have that debate as well, I hear sweden's ideas worked for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straw Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I think Love is love and thus people should be free to love and be bonded(not marriage since you people are so uptight about that) with someone no matter the sex. They do! I think a woman has the right to choose what goes on with her body, and i believe she should be able to make that choice without being labeled a murderer and scorned in the community. The baby is in her body. She has an obligation to not kill it! I think we need to be more open to all people of all faiths and religions, i remember Colin Powell talking about people saying Obama was a muslim incorrectly and he paused and asked, "why should it matter?" Cause they kill Americans? I think we need to push forwards in all kinds of sciences, including stem cell research. I think cloning is a very important idea that needs to be pushed. I believe we need to push scientific research way past what we are right now. (the last three aren't necesarilly liberal or conservative, but you will find more liberals agreeing with that over conservatives) Why not, got to do something with mudered babies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 and like i said, liberalism to me applies to social issues, now if you want to go with the liberals as being evil socialists then we can have that debate as well, I hear sweden's ideas worked for awhile. What about true liberalism, as in a liberal view of how the Constitution should be interpreted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now