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To be fair to the argument, here is another link showing the other side of the argument.......

 

 

http://rottenacorn.com/

 

 

Rottenacorn.com sounds and looks eerily similar to wakeupwalmart.com doesn't it? Well from a certain point of view anyway.......

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Jason, if you think there wasn't evidence of voter fraud before last night, then you've had your head in the sand for quite awhile now. Have you watched ANY news or read ANY newspapers in the last month? HELLO! OHIO! Does that ring a bell? ACORN!? Please!

 

I agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions, the the evidence is there. You can choose to ignore it if you wish. Doesn't make it go away.

 

BTW, clutchon just about summed up my thoughts exactly.

 

What sounds like voter fraud to you concerning ACORN appears to be ACORN turning in ALL voter registrations, whether fraud or legitimate, as required either by law in each state or by their nationwide policies, IF I read that first blog link correctly.....very interesting reading all around though, but these links allow all of us to see both sides of the story.......

 

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What sounds like voter fraud to you concerning ACORN appears to be ACORN turning in ALL voter registrations, whether fraud or legitimate, as required either by law in each state or by their nationwide policies, IF I read that first blog link correctly.....very interesting reading all around though, but these links allow all of us to see both sides of the story.......

 

Smug, know-it-all college students. Don't you just love 'em?

 

Jason, I'll type slowly so you can understand. It's not about turning in all the registration cards. It's about not going out of your way to fraudulently register as many people (or non-people, if you will) as you can in hopes of getting as many accepted as you can. It's the mud on the wall theory (the more you sling on the wall the more that is likely to stick).

 

ACORN knowingly did this. I saw an interview with a guy who admitted to signing up 73 times himself, all of which were accepted by ACORN. That's fraud, anyway you look at it.

 

As I said, you can continue to stick your head in the sand about voter fraud all you want. You willing ignorance will not make it go away nor obfuscate the fact it happened.

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Smug, know-it-all college students. Don't you just love 'em?

 

Jason, I'll type slowly so you can understand. It's not about turning in all the registration cards. It's about not going out of your way to fraudulently register as many people (or non-people, if you will) as you can in hopes of getting as many accepted as you can. It's the mud on the wall theory (the more you sling on the wall the more that is likely to stick).

 

ACORN knowingly did this. I saw an interview with a guy who admitted to signing up 73 times himself, all of which were accepted by ACORN. That's fraud, anyway you look at it.

 

As I said, you can continue to stick your head in the sand about voter fraud all you want. You willing ignorance will not make it go away nor obfuscate the fact it happened.

 

Once again, your argument is all wrong......First of all I am a 26 year old college graduate and a married father of 3 who is now an assistant store manager for a major retailer stationed here in Marble Falls, so your "smug, know-it-all college students" argument is blown out of the water.....second, you have resorted to the worst type of fallacy you can incur in any intellectual debate.....you have resorted to attacking your "opponent".....this is usually done when an individual has lost the initiative during a debate and now is left with no other recourse but to attack his/her "opponent" to make a last ditch attempt to "win" the debate and save face.......Secondly, I find it very interesting that in debates past on other threads I have seen conservatives such as yourself bashing liberals that have resorted to the same attacks with personal remarks/insults and yet I find you and others doing the same thing now to me, who just happens to share most of the same ideals as conservatives, and even voted for McCain (although I tend to be more middle of the road than a traditional conservative).......Lastly, If the popular vote by itself or even the swing state votes, etc. were even remotely close in terms of margin between Obama and McCain, then I would seriously be jumping on the bandwagon of voter fraud, but fortunately in this case the results were not even close, Obama clearly won this election, and close to a landslide at that, and as I said before, the people have spoken.......Yes it is possible that a few hundred or even a few thousand voters were illegally registered by Republican and Democratic affiliated entities alike nationwide, but those numbers are far inconsequential to be of any concern as to the validity of the results of this election........agree?

 

 

Bleeds, there is an old saying that my uncle reminded me of recently, and it states that "There is none so blind as those who will not see."

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Couln't he have just summed all of that up in one thread instead of taking up a whol page with one liners!

 

 

I would have, but I kept finding more great information and I wanted to make sure that everyone got my points medman........ :thumbsup:

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So it's ok to cheat if it's a blowout, but in a close race no cheating allowed? If you will do a little more research you will find that the credit card screening was not even close to par. People could use their card to make donations as daffy duck - the name on the card didn't have to match the name of the donor. He even accepted $$ from his aunt who is not a citizen of the US - just one example. He accepted donations from prepaid credit cards - again, anybody could have bought that card, who knows it could have been al-qaeda for all you know. Why are you taking up for this clown anyway? You see there is this trait that I hold very high on the list, it's called INTEGRITY and he doesn't have it. Hell, the guy doesn't even have enough self-discipline to stop smoking cigarettes after the two most important people in his life die of cancer.

 

There is an old saying my uncle told me: You are judged by the company you keep.

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Why are you taking up for this clown anyway?

 

Because like it or not, he is MY president and YOUR president for the next 4 years, and regardless of how I truly feel about the far left, he was voted in fairly and I will support OUR president......

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So it's ok to cheat if it's a blowout, but in a close race no cheating allowed?

 

There is still no concrete proof that either side cheated, clutch, that is what I am trying to convey. We have reports in the links that I posted of supposed or alleged abuses by both sides, but the vast majority of those cases were explained away sufficiently if you will actually go in depth and read them......only a few isolated cases have resulted in actual legal inquiries or the request for a legal inquiry into questionable activity......but as I stated earlier, the numbers of supposed fraud incidents is inconsequential to the actual results, and I realize now that for some the reality of this must be hard to accept, but Obama won fairly and is our new president, and we all should give him a chance as our president before we automatically chalk up his presidency as a total flop, especially when the man doesn't even take office until January......

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Concrete evidence?? ACORNS rap sheet looks like pac-man's. Why did they concentrate all of their efforts in "battleground" states. Why did they gear their hunt towards low-income people/places who they knew would vote for Obama? Think whatever you will, but it is not the social and economic issues that have me worried. I stated in a different thread that Bin Laden is elated now. Are you naive enough to think these extremists stopped hating us because "the messiah" is now in charge? Are you naive enough to think for a second that they aren't over there plotting and planning on ways to inflict pain and suffering on the American people? Do you think a liberal senator from Chicago will be stern enough to handle the crisis when Isreal gets attacked? What are the repercussions going to be when he cuts the defense budget to fund all of his social programs?

 

 

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Once again, your argument is all wrong......First of all I am a 26 year old college graduate and a married father of 3 who is now an assistant store manager for a major retailer stationed here in Marble Falls, so your "smug, know-it-all college students" argument is blown out of the water.....second, you have resorted to the worst type of fallacy you can incur in any intellectual debate.....you have resorted to attacking your "opponent".....this is usually done when an individual has lost the initiative during a debate and now is left with no other recourse but to attack his/her "opponent" to make a last ditch attempt to "win" the debate and save face.......Secondly, I find it very interesting that in debates past on other threads I have seen conservatives such as yourself bashing liberals that have resorted to the same attacks with personal remarks/insults and yet I find you and others doing the same thing now to me, who just happens to share most of the same ideals as conservatives, and even voted for McCain (although I tend to be more middle of the road than a traditional conservative).......Lastly, If the popular vote by itself or even the swing state votes, etc. were even remotely close in terms of margin between Obama and McCain, then I would seriously be jumping on the bandwagon of voter fraud, but fortunately in this case the results were not even close, Obama clearly won this election, and close to a landslide at that, and as I said before, the people have spoken.......Yes it is possible that a few hundred or even a few thousand voters were illegally registered by Republican and Democratic affiliated entities alike nationwide, but those numbers are far inconsequential to be of any concern as to the validity of the results of this election........agree?

 

 

Bleeds, there is an old saying that my uncle reminded me of recently, and it states that "There is none so blind as those who will not see."

 

So, it's okay for you to attack me?

 

Save your liberal rant fancy-boy. What you said was wrong. I gave instances of why you were wrong. And guess what, you're still wrong.

 

Sorry for the mislabeling. I took by your screen name and your obvious thoughts that you do in fact know it all that your were a college student, not unlike the others who have come on here and made arguements equally as baseless and naive as yours. Sorry. I should have said "smug, know-it-all" and left it at that.

 

No one said anything about how inconsequential the numbers of illegally registered voter was. You seemed to indicate claims of same were baseless. As I said, you were wrong. Now, I'm sorry if you don't like being told you are wrong, but with naive arguements like yours, you had better get used to it, because you're going to be told that a lot.

 

BTW, I did not attack my opponent. I pointed out the fact there was voter registration fraud on the part of the Democratic party and ACORN. I also pointed out the our new PE has ties with the aforementioned subversive organization, ALL of which are true.

 

BTW, you're uncle was right.

 

Stay in school.

 

BTW, shouldn't your screenname be "jasonnmarblefalls"? That would alleviate some of the problems here.

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So, it's okay for you to attack me?

 

Save your liberal rant fancy-boy. What you said was wrong. I gave instances of why you were wrong. And guess what, you're still wrong.

 

Sorry for the mislabeling. I took by your screen name and your obvious thoughts that you do in fact know it all that your were a college student, not unlike the others who have come on here and made arguements equally as baseless and naive as yours. Sorry. I should have said "smug, know-it-all" and left it at that.

 

No one said anything about how inconsequential the numbers of illegally registered voter was. You seemed to indicate claims of same were baseless. As I said, you were wrong. Now, I'm sorry if you don't like being told you are wrong, but with naive arguements like yours, you had better get used to it, because you're going to be told that a lot.

 

BTW, I did not attack my opponent. I pointed out the fact there was voter registration fraud on the part of the Democratic party and ACORN. I also pointed out the our new PE has ties with the aforementioned subversive organization, ALL of which are true.

 

BTW, you're uncle was right.

 

Stay in school.

 

BTW, shouldn't your screenname be "jasonnmarblefalls"? That would alleviate some of the problems here.

 

#1) "So, it's okay for you to attack me?" Never in my post did I attack you personally with insults, common sense will tell you that bleeds, unlike your previous posts to me.

 

#2)"Save your liberal rant fancy-boy. What you said was wrong. I gave instances of why you were wrong. And guess what, you're still wrong." You gave us nothing as to why I was wrong, if I remember correctly, I gave you and everyone on this forum actual links with stories showing not only my points, but both sides of the story showing proof of my stance, you have given us nothing concrete as a matter of fact that does back up your point......

 

#3) "Sorry for the mislabeling. I took by your screen name and your obvious thoughts that you do in fact know it all that your were a college student, not unlike the others who have come on here and made arguements equally as baseless and naive as yours. Sorry. I should have said "smug, know-it-all" and left it at that." Once again, a personal attack stating that I am a know-it-all which is not the case. "smug, know-it-all" is still a personal attack and yet another fallacy.

 

#4) "No one said anything about how inconsequential the numbers of illegally registered voter was. You seemed to indicate claims of same were baseless. As I said, you were wrong. Now, I'm sorry if you don't like being told you are wrong, but with naive arguements like yours, you had better get used to it, because you're going to be told that a lot."

 

Yes, I actually did say the numbers are inconsequential because they are, and I know I am right about it. I have no problem dealing with being told I am wrong when I know I am wrong, but in this case I am right and am sticking to my guns and have provided links to prove my point, no one else has shown anything else to contradict my point, therefore I must believe that I am right. What is naive in any debate is stating your position and then not being prepared to back it up somehow with facts.....where are yours again??

 

#5) "BTW, I did not attack my opponent. I pointed out the fact there was voter registration fraud on the part of the Democratic party and ACORN. I also pointed out the our new PE has ties with the aforementioned subversive organization, ALL of which are true." Yes you attacked your opponent, in this case me, with personal attacks and insinuations, your previous posts show it in plain type, and in english too! As for the ties to the organization, what ties are those again? I saw no direct connection or ties to the organization in question when I did my research earlier......

 

 

 

 

 

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Obama's ties to ACORN

Obama Paid ACORN $800,000 Via Their “Front Group.” “For starters, Obama paid ACORN, which has endorsed him for president, $800,000 to register new voters, payments his campaign failed to accurately report. (They were disguised in his FEC disclosure as payments to a front group called Citizen Services Inc. for “advance work.”)” (Editorial, “Is ACORN Stealing The Election?” Investor’s Business Daily, 10/8/08)

 

Obama Was ACORN’s Lawyer. “The next year, 1993, Obama joined the civil-rights law firm Davis Miner Barnhill & Galland, where he sued the state of Illinois on behalf of ACORN to implement the federal “Motor Voter” law, which the GOP governor at the time refused to do. Then-Gov. Jim Edgar argued, presciently, that the Clinton law would invite voter fraud.” (Editorial, “Is ACORN Stealing The Election?” Investor’s Business Daily, 10/8/08)

 

Obama and ACORN, Fellow Travelers. “ACORN attracted Barack Obama in his youthful community organizing days. Madeline Talbott hired him to train her staff -- the very people who would later descend on Chicago’s banks as CRA shakedown artists. The Democratic nominee later funneled money to the group through the Woods Fund, on whose board he sat, and through the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, ditto. Obama was not just sympathetic -- he was an ACORN fellow traveler.” (Mona Charen, “ACORN, Obama, And The Mortgage Mess,” Real Clear Politics, 9/30/08)

 

Obama Trained ACORN Staff. “Several community organizers and Altgeld Gardens tenants confirmed Johnson was working on asbestos but said Obama organized residents to act. ‘He got people to vote with their feet’ on the issue, organizer Madeleine Talbot said. At the time, Talbot worked at the social action group ACORN and initially considered Obama a competitor. But she became so impressed with his work that she invited him to help train her staff.” (Letta Tayler and Keith Herbert, “Obama Forged Path As Chicago Community Organizer,” Los Angeles Times, 3/2/08)

 

ACORN’s Political Action Committee Endorsed Obama. “ACORN’s Political Action Committee, ACORN Votes, announced Feb. 21 that it had endorsed Sen. Barack Obama for President.” (ACORN, “ACORN’s Political Action Committee Endorses Obama,” Press Release, 2/21/08)

 

Obama Praised ACORN For Being A Good Ally. “When Obama met with ACORN leaders in November, he reminded them of his history with ACORN and his beginnings in Illinois as a Project Vote organizer, a nonprofit focused on voter rights and education. Senator Obama said, ‘I come out of a grassroots organizing background. That’s what I did for three and half years before I went to law school. That’s the reason I moved to Chicago was to organize. So this is something that I know personally, the work you do, the importance of it. I’ve been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.” (Barack Obama 2008 Website, Accessed 10/8/08)

 

“Obama Worked As Executive Director Of ACORN’s Voter-Registration Arm, Project Vote.” “What’s more, Obama worked as executive director of ACORN’s voter-registration arm, Project Vote, in 1992. Joined by two other community organizers on Chicago’s South Side, Obama conducted the voter-registration drive that helped elect Carol Moseley-Braun to the Senate that year.” (Editorial, “Is ACORN Stealing The Election?” Investor’s Business Daily, 10/8/08)

 

 

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Excellent information Straw, I applaud you for doing your research, thank you for adding such good information to this debate, this will allow everyone to get a better view of the information presented and make up their own mind as to what is really going on.......although at this point with all of the loops and turns we have all taken on this thread I am lost as to where we have actually gone with this debate......it certainly is not where we started with the original topic that much is for certain.......But once again, thanks for actually presenting something concrete that we all can study.......

 

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#1) "So, it's okay for you to attack me?" Never in my post did I attack you personally with insults, common sense will tell you that bleeds, unlike your previous posts to me.

 

#2)"Save your liberal rant fancy-boy. What you said was wrong. I gave instances of why you were wrong. And guess what, you're still wrong." You gave us nothing as to why I was wrong, if I remember correctly, I gave you and everyone on this forum actual links with stories showing not only my points, but both sides of the story showing proof of my stance, you have given us nothing concrete as a matter of fact that does back up your point......

 

#3) "Sorry for the mislabeling. I took by your screen name and your obvious thoughts that you do in fact know it all that your were a college student, not unlike the others who have come on here and made arguements equally as baseless and naive as yours. Sorry. I should have said "smug, know-it-all" and left it at that." Once again, a personal attack stating that I am a know-it-all which is not the case. "smug, know-it-all" is still a personal attack and yet another fallacy.

 

#4) "No one said anything about how inconsequential the numbers of illegally registered voter was. You seemed to indicate claims of same were baseless. As I said, you were wrong. Now, I'm sorry if you don't like being told you are wrong, but with naive arguements like yours, you had better get used to it, because you're going to be told that a lot."

 

Yes, I actually did say the numbers are inconsequential because they are, and I know I am right about it. I have no problem dealing with being told I am wrong when I know I am wrong, but in this case I am right and am sticking to my guns and have provided links to prove my point, no one else has shown anything else to contradict my point, therefore I must believe that I am right. What is naive in any debate is stating your position and then not being prepared to back it up somehow with facts.....where are yours again??

 

#5) "BTW, I did not attack my opponent. I pointed out the fact there was voter registration fraud on the part of the Democratic party and ACORN. I also pointed out the our new PE has ties with the aforementioned subversive organization, ALL of which are true." Yes you attacked your opponent, in this case me, with personal attacks and insinuations, your previous posts show it in plain type, and in english too! As for the ties to the organization, what ties are those again? I saw no direct connection or ties to the organization in question when I did my research earlier......

 

 

While I don't expect this to happen, as you seem to be quite enthused with yourself, you should in fact get over yourself. You seem to ignore facts and bask in the glow of self-aggrandizement. You love you some you.

 

This is how it went. I made a comment about the then candidate Obama running a (tongue in cheek) "clean" election. You refuted that and said unless I had facts, I shouldn't make comments like that. I gave facts. You ignored those facts and began to find claims of voter fraud by the Republicans. I pointed out your rants did not set aside the fact that ACORN and the PE were inexoribily tied together. Still, not good enough for you. You got your feelings hurt when I assumed, based on your screen name you were a smug, know it all college student and went off a little rant. I apologized for misidentifying you as a college student, said I should have stopped with "smug, know it all" and continued to point out your naivete and agreed with your uncle. You dug your head even deeper into the sand.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Don't do drugs.

 

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...although at this point with all of the loops and turns we have all taken on this thread I am lost as to where we have actually gone with this debate

 

Where we have gone with this debate is to prove EXACTLY what I said in the first place, regarding both the ties to ACORN by the PE, and the fact you are a smug, know it all.

 

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While I don't expect this to happen, as you seem to be quite enthused with yourself, you should in fact get over yourself. You seem to ignore facts and bask in the glow of self-aggrandizement. You love you some you.

 

This is how it went. I made a comment about the then candidate Obama running a (tongue in cheek) "clean" election. You refuted that and said unless I had facts, I shouldn't make comments like that. I gave facts. You ignored those facts and began to find claims of voter fraud by the Republicans. I pointed out your rants did not set aside the fact that ACORN and the PE were inexoribily tied together. Still, not good enough for you. You got your feelings hurt when I assumed, based on your screen name you were a smug, know it all college student and went off a little rant. I apologized for misidentifying you as a college student, said I should have stopped with "smug, know it all" and continued to point out your naivete and agreed with your uncle. You dug your head even deeper into the sand.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Don't do drugs.

 

Bleeds I am no more in love with myself than you or anyone else on here, obviously your hypocrisy knows no bounds, lol......How do I ignore facts exactly, bleeds, when I have been posting facts based on the links I have provided? "I gave facts" Actually, no you didn't, Strawberry gave facts, in the form of concrete evidence; links, you gave us nothing and I know it is hard for you, but you can admit to being wrong on this, it won't kill you to say dude, your right, I did not present any concrete facts, lol.......No my feelings are not hurt, trust me, lol, you can sleep tonight without worrying about me and my feelings, but it is awful sweet of you to take a moment to think about me, and it is entertaining for me to see you attempt to get me riled up, for I do love to argue. :flowers: Where exactly did drugs come into this whole conversation? Are you that desperate to try to get me riled up that you will resort to suggesting that I am under the influence? Well I can assure you that I have never tried any illegal substance, not even a cigarette, so nice try, have a good evening and I will chat with you again later, time to put the kids to bed......

 

 

Where we have gone with this debate is to prove EXACTLY what I said in the first place, regarding both the ties to ACORN by the PE, and the fact you are a smug, know it all.

 

:rolleyes:

 

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Last first.

 

My comment about drugs is just one of the many public service comments I post occasionally. Not directed at you.

 

The "fact" is, everything I posted about ACORN and Obama was correct. It's been in the news for weeks. The fact my comment was not accompanied by a link makes it no less factual.

 

Are you an attorney?

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