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jasonattsu

'Card check' best hope for auto workers union?

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Guest bleeds

The $25B bailout and this bill are pay-back for the UAW delivering a ton of votes to Obama. The DNC is in the pocket of the UAW.

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The $25B bailout and this bill are pay-back for the UAW delivering a ton of votes to Obama. The DNC is in the pocket of the UAW.

 

Hey bleeds, how are ya? I would have to agree with you on this one......Does this not scare the crud out of you though to think about what would happen if this bill does pass??? I am an assistant store manager for a very large national retailer and the thought of our company slowly becoming unionized in this fashion is quite terrifying to be honest. And were this bill to pass, however, it would not just be our company, but EVERY major company in the nation, including every entity from the commercial and industrial sector, would be vulnerable to becoming unionized......and here is the best part, Obama co-sponsored this bill in 2007.......and has also promised to sign it once it clears the house and senate this year.........Could this get any worse?

 

Actually yes, we worry about our economy now, just imagine what will happen when companies have to pay for the extra wages that always seem to accompany union collective bargaining agreements......what is the first thing a company usually does when they must meet higher payroll demands? Raise prices for their products and services of course. And the sad thing about it is that usually the higher wages the employees receive goes straight to the union dues, which actually does nothing to line the employee's pockets but instead lines the unions' pockets.......what a mess this really is. Surely there are more level headed people in the House and Senate than there are air-heads who will see the futility and recklessness of such an act. I truly believe that passing this bill will be more destructive for our economy than any series of natural disasters or famine could ever be.......

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_Free_Choice_Act

 

This would be BAD!!!! I've had many regions for NLRB for court reporting, and if you guys will recall, remember when they were trying to unionize Wal-Mart, and still do...remember not long ago, Wal-Mart used to actually have butchers. When the butchers were going to organize, Sam Walton made quick work of it, and got rid of all the butchers, and now you see Wal-Mart has prepackaged meat. Wal-Mart is by far one of the most aggressive companies that fight the unions. No telling how many millions and millions of dollars they have to spend. Also, one reason why a lot of Wal-Mart employees don't work "full time".

 

When the new arena in Houston was being built, we did a lot of electrical and mechanical NLRB hearings and I can't tell you how many companies went bust after NLRB hearings. And what's more aggravating, the unions send moles in, and when I say moles, I mean people who don't want a job, but then file with NLRB...I had one attorney call me and say, you know, what do I tell these employers when they've got this mess going on... I said, in short....write a check, literally.

 

The worst thing about this is... I've done many hearings where it's been "mexican" grocery stores. These employees are being told by the unions, that they can get X raise, more benefits, and they hear money and benefits, and they sign -doesn't matter what, they just sign, and they have no idea what they're signing. Also, most Albertson's, etc. stores, their butchers and deli are union.

 

If this does happen, and the companies won't budge, there will be strikes like you wouldn't believe, because the unions will have so much clout, and they'll put enough pressure on the companies where it affects people like you and I, who can't get milk, groceries, meat, etc., etc., and then with the Obama idiots, well... you can only imagine...

 

The only way companies can fight it, is if they do what Wal-Mart did... shut it down. If the unions go after the southern foreign car makers, which they will, it'd be real smart for the companies to say, okie doke... guess what, we're out of here! Laying off millions of workers! That is the only real way to stop the unions.

 

And if this Employee Free Choice Act does pass, you can betcha NLRB will be super busy!

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Rescue the big 3 and payback for union Obahma support: Secret ballot to get unions in new auto plants in the south, slap tariffs on them if they try to import. Makes sense to the union boys.

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remember when they were trying to unionize Wal-Mart, and still do...remember not long ago, Wal-Mart used to actually have butchers. When the butchers were going to organize, Sam Walton made quick work of it, and got rid of all the butchers, and now you see Wal-Mart has prepackaged meat. Wal-Mart is by far one of the most aggressive companies that fight the unions. No telling how many millions and millions of dollars they have to spend. Also, one reason why a lot of Wal-Mart employees don't work "full time".

 

Hey parent, I wanted to touch upon your statement a bit, and yes I have to defend my company on this one, LOL.......the choice of cutting out meat cutters in Wal-Mart was not solely to eliminate the union prescence, that was a part of it, yes, but look at the profit aspect of it, and also the food safety aspect as well......Wal-Mart found a way to pre-package meat with machines instead of humans, which makes alot of financial sense, because you don't have to pay a machine $15 to $30 dollars an hour to cut meat.....lets face it, for the most part, unions, like meat-cutters (butchers), really aren't that necessary anymore......

 

Wal-Mart board of directors, not Sam Walton, made the decision to elimate this position to save on expenses, as well as food safey. With machines cutting meat instead of human hands, you have less of a chance of foreign objects such as fuzz, lint, hair, dirt, microbes, bacteria, saliva, viruses, etc. from entering the food that is going to eventually be consumed by people which can make them sick. And as I learned in Wal-Mart Food School: *Remember, it is always easier to clean and sanitize a machine than clean and sanitize a human being.

 

Yes Wal-Mart is very aggressive with unions, but not because we are anti-union, though, rather it is because in reality we are pro-associate........Wal-Mart has always fostered an Open-Door environment that allows every Associate's voice to be heard, no matter what the issue, or the problem, the complaint, or the idea on how to make things better.

 

As for the "full-time" facts, every Wal-Mart is supposed to be made up of 60% Full-Time and 40% Part-Time associates, although every store is different demographically and geographically, so in reality you may never have it just right but for the most part stores are fairly close to this percentage....and as for the "dreaded" facts on health insurance at Wal-Mart, we are proud to know that approximately 89% of ALL Wal-Mart associates now have at least some form of insurance through the company.....

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Guest bleeds
Yes Wal-Mart is very aggressive with unions, but not because we are anti-union, though, rather it is because in reality we are pro-associate........Wal-Mart has always fostered an Open-Door environment that allows every Associate's voice to be heard, no matter what the issue, or the problem, the complaint, or the idea on how to make things better.

 

Jason, I know you and I have had our differences, so I hesitate to comment here, as I don't want you to think this is a continuation of that, as it is not. But the highlighted comment above is corporate spin. I believe you know that.

 

I have friends who work in management here. There are VERY frank about unions and how welcome they are at WM. The bottom line on that is, the butchers were cut out (pardon the pun) because of union interests. Now, other things that were money-saving measures may have come about because of that, but the bottom line is in-store meat cutting ended due to the unions looking to organize the butchers.

 

As for you open-door environment, the people I know who work for WM, and these aren't checkers, etc, sing a different song. The things you tell us are, for lack of a better word and not to enflame you, spin.

 

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Guest bleeds

Let me be clear. Unionization at WM would probably lead to higher prices. Employees who go to work for WM do so knowing their policies in regards to full-time/part-time and the bennies issues. But WM is rabidly un-union. Their employees are even afraid to discuss unions. I know that for a fact.

 

Have a friend who is in claims, and her husband is a former firefighter union local president. She made it very clear to him when he was elected he was not to discuss unions at the store, or to WM employees.

 

That speaks volumes.

 

I don't want you to think I'm bashing WM. I'm not. I had this very discussion with the wife of a long-time WM employee here on SDC not long ago. I just comment on what I know about them.

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Guest Sideliner

Card check is already legal. It just has to be agreed to by both parties. The main thing that is important about the new law they are trying to pass is that it gaurantees a first contract. As it stands now, when employees vote by secret ballot to form a union, the employer hires union busting firms to come in and harass employees and stall contract negotiations for a year. After that one year period and after tons of junk mail and harassment, the union busting firms convince a non union supporter to request a new election to de-certify the union. Secret ballot means very little when the labor laws allow a company to avoid a first contract with a legally formed union. This law will erase decades of abuse.

 

 

Watch the movie Harlan County War, If it does not change your tune nothing will.

 

 

 

As for the auto bailout, Southern states gave hundreds of million dollars to carmakers to locate in their states. How can the big three compete with hundreds of millions of incentives and tax abatements that were given to these companies. They can't. Fair? Far from it!

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Guest bleeds
As for the auto bailout, Southern states gave hundreds of million dollars to carmakers to locate in their states. How can the big three compete with hundreds of millions of incentives and tax abatements that were given to these companies. They can't. Fair? Far from it!

 

 

Why is offering a company an incentive to locate in your state not fair? Don't think Michigan doesn't subsidized the Big 3. Do you think they don't get abatements on any new addition to their plants? Abatements and subsidies are as much a part of big business as anything. Why would a plant locate in a town that didn't think enough of it to offer it incentives? Plants help towns. It is well worth the cost of the incentives to the overall economy rather than lose the plant to another town.

 

The companies in the south have found a way to do business more efficiently than following the bloated cow theory of business as per Chrysler, GM, and Ford.

 

BTW, I've seen HCW. What the union members in that movie were fighting for and what the UAW is demanding are night and day. A safe workplace is very different than a $73/hour employee. That's what a UAW employee costs the company.

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Card check is already legal. It just has to be agreed to by both parties. The main thing that is important about the new law they are trying to pass is that it gaurantees a first contract. As it stands now, when employees vote by secret ballot to form a union, the employer hires union busting firms to come in and harass employees and stall contract negotiations for a year. After that one year period and after tons of junk mail and harassment, the union busting firms convince a non union supporter to request a new election to de-certify the union. Secret ballot means very little when the labor laws allow a company to avoid a first contract with a legally formed union. This law will erase decades of abuse.

 

Watch the movie Harlan County War, If it does not change your tune nothing will.

 

As for the auto bailout, Southern states gave hundreds of million dollars to carmakers to locate in their states. How can the big three compete with hundreds of millions of incentives and tax abatements that were given to these companies. They can't. Fair? Far from it!

I think the primary quality that union organizers see in Card Check is the visibility of targets to threaten into signing. Don't want to try and coerce all the workers at a company, especially if you can't be sure if your patsy is voting the right way.

 

It never fails to amaze me that people substitute movies for experience they obviously lack.

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Card check is already legal. It just has to be agreed to by both parties. The main thing that is important about the new law they are trying to pass is that it gaurantees a first contract. As it stands now, when employees vote by secret ballot to form a union, the employer hires union busting firms to come in and harass employees and stall contract negotiations for a year. After that one year period and after tons of junk mail and harassment, the union busting firms convince a non union supporter to request a new election to de-certify the union. Secret ballot means very little when the labor laws allow a company to avoid a first contract with a legally formed union. This law will erase decades of abuse.

 

 

Watch the movie Harlan County War, If it does not change your tune nothing will.

 

 

 

As for the auto bailout, Southern states gave hundreds of million dollars to carmakers to locate in their states. How can the big three compete with hundreds of millions of incentives and tax abatements that were given to these companies. They can't. Fair? Far from it!

 

The part I've highlighted is far from the truth! If anything, it's the unions. And the reason I know this, is because I've typed NLRB cases from coast to coast. Now, if you switch the word "employer" to "union", then you're be right on! And as far as Wal-Mart, I applaud their efforts and what they do! I've talked to a bunch of their attorneys, and the "group" that comes in if the word "union" is even said, is top notch! They definitely know what they're doing! And good for them! (lots of !'s here!!!!) It takes companies like this to stop this kind of mess - which I aliken to the goings' on with EHarmony... same thing in my mind.

 

When I worked for Union Pacific Railroad, I HAD TO BECOME a member to be hired - which infuriated me! When I quit, the way I did, when supervisors were asking me to change a transcript of an investigation to "meet their needs", I refused! They knew if I opened my mouth, all heckie would cut loose; however, I REFUSED to file a grievance with 'em! And trust me, they begged and begged! Thankfully I quit, because a year later, my job was cut off... and it put me in a position to start the company I have now.

 

Someone who is just a member of the union, even a union rep, has no idea what the heck is going on behind some of this stuff, and I'm talking about the unions here. Granted, yes, there are companies that do "mess up", but not nearly as much as the unions setting up the companies, which infuriates me. I just got through shopping at Wal-Mart, and I'm proud to shop at Wal-Mart, and dangit, I want my butchers back - but NOT UNION BUTCHERS!

 

Now, if they could just get a Cavender's, Academy and my local hardware store all wrapped into Wal-Mart, I'd only have to make one trip!

 

 

 

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Jason, I know you and I have had our differences, so I hesitate to comment here, as I don't want you to think this is a continuation of that, as it is not. But the highlighted comment above is corporate spin. I believe you know that.

 

I have friends who work in management here. There are VERY frank about unions and how welcome they are at WM. The bottom line on that is, the butchers were cut out (pardon the pun) because of union interests. Now, other things that were money-saving measures may have come about because of that, but the bottom line is in-store meat cutting ended due to the unions looking to organize the butchers.

 

As for you open-door environment, the people I know who work for WM, and these aren't checkers, etc, sing a different song. The things you tell us are, for lack of a better word and not to enflame you, spin.

 

Bleeds, don't worry, I know you don't mean to inflame anything I have said, and as for past disagreements between us, well isn't that what a forum is for, debating and disagreeing??? LOL, anyway, in case you haven't figured it out yet, I myself am a Wal-Mart Store Assistant Manager at Store #781, and I have been with the company for 7 years now, both as an hourly associate and now as an Assistant Manager......

 

In one of my first posts on this thread I mentioned that not every store is the same, demographically or geographically, and to expand on that, what I mean is that there will be much more diverse areas than others in terms of ideology, political stances, social diversity, etc........I must admit that not every Wal-Mart store is a "good" store, and there will always be people who are disgruntled with the way things are run, and unfortunately it always seems to be the negative-minded people you hear about the most, either from word of mouth or the news, and not the individuals that have fallen in love with the Wal-Mart way. But with over 2 million past and present associates employed at Wal-Mart, the company must be doing something right for it to be attractive to potential employees, otherwise no one would apply to work there.

 

Now in your defense Bleeds, you have not been enamored into the Wal-Mart culture, that I know of, of course......But working for Wal-Mart is not for everyone, trust me, I have hired and fired my fair share of associates, and all of them from every walk of life I can assure you.....

 

Now to get back on topic, yes I know how "welcome" unions are at Wal-Mart, but it goes back to what I said earlier, even though you say it is corporate spin.....it actually is one of our corporate policies......We feel that unions are unneccessary here because why would any hard working associate want to take their hard earned money and give it to someone who is supposed to speak for them in their business matters when that individual is more than capable of doing it themselves??? That is the whole underlying ideal behind the Open Door, and why we feel that unions are unnecessary in today's day and age.

 

I also know that the Employee Free Choice Act is quite literally an act of desperation by the unions, because all across the board union membership is falling dramatically and with that their income, and with the passage of this bill into Law it will give the unions, in my opinion, an unfair advantage into moving into EVERY major retail chain in the US as well as the commercial, industrial, and manufacturing sectors that are not already unionized.......Since the game has failed, the unions are changing the rules of the game with this bill, and unfairly I might add. Now instead of a 30% card turn in which initiates the need for a secret ballot vote, where in the process of the secret ballot vote, 50% plus 1 will unionize a small portion of a business (example, Butchers at Wal-Mart). With 50% card signatures under the EFCA, the union will move in, and also not just into one area of a business, for example the butchers in Wal-Mart, but the entire facility itself will become totally Unionized.......The only thing that will save some businesses, not just Wal-Mart, will be rather or not your state is known as a Right To Work State......By the way, thank God Texas is, lol......There is more to this bill, if anyone wants to know, just ask and I can provide more on a separate reply, this one is getting a bit long......

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Jasonattu, do me a favor... get a job for one of my sons at the local Wal-Mart in Gilmer as a stocker! PLEASE! He'd be proud to be a Wal-Mart employee! Fits right in with college, not to mention I can call him and give him "my list", just like I do when he's up in college in Mt. Pleasant and he runs by Braum's to get milk! NO better milk than Braum's unless it's ... well, you know, straight from the cow. And cheap, my goodness gracious!

 

You've been doing some studying up on unions, huh! What's horrible is what these unions do to Mexican grocery stores, when no one can hardly speak any English - infuritating!

 

I sat in a NLRB hearing one time, as the union mole sit there with a smug look on his face. We had a break, and as I was coming back, he leaned over to me and said, "This is so funny, isn't it, we got 'em by the short hairs?" I looked him square in the face, with the Judge only two feet from me, and said, "YOU MAKE ME SICK!" As I took my seat, the judge leaned over to me and said, "We'll see who has who by the short hairs" and giggled! Too bad when the Judge rules against the unions they don't make the unions pay back the companies all the money they've had to use to go to court... wonder how many employees could get raises had they not had to do that?

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