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You are the rare exception. I've taught public school for a while now, and I have more than enough fingers and toes to count the number of face to face conferences that were initiated or requested by the parents. I'd like to believe that they just trust me that much, but that would be very naive on my part.

 

So--the reality is that parents are not that involved. The school is saddled with the full responsibility of academic success. And if the kids fail despite all our efforts, it's because the teachers aren't good enough.

 

How do we fix it? How do we get more parents involved? How do we guarantee the success of all students with a 20+ to 1 student to teacher ratio when half of the third graders are reading at a 1st grade level?

 

I'm not picking on anyone here. I'm just interested in a free flow of ideas. We can't go back to the 1950's when two-parent households were the norm. We don't live in Mayberry today. So if we had a blank canvas and could start fresh--what would a perfect school system look like?

I hear it's rare from teachers, but not from parents I know. And generally not from teachers that I know.

 

No matter how you slice it, you won't even have a decent school system without parental involvement. If we can't have Mayberry, then some other model is required. The future depends on it.

 

Unless you think the school system should outrank the parents?

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Back to the topic at hand here.

 

You are the rare exception. I've taught public school for a while now, and I have more than enough fingers and toes to count the number of face to face conferences that were initiated or requested by the parents. I'd like to believe that they just trust me that much, but that would be very naive on my part.

 

So--the reality is that parents are not that involved. The school is saddled with the full responsibility of academic success. And if the kids fail despite all our efforts, it's because the teachers aren't good enough.

 

How do we fix it? How do we get more parents involved? How do we guarantee the success of all students with a 20+ to 1 student to teacher ratio when half of the third graders are reading at a 1st grade level?

 

I'm not picking on anyone here. I'm just interested in a free flow of ideas. We can't go back to the 1950's when two-parent households were the norm. We don't live in Mayberry today. So if we had a blank canvas and could start fresh--what would a perfect school system look like?

I agree. Something happened. I remember when my youngest brother and sister all of a sudden wanted to be dropped off at the mall, that all their friends were doing it...I think Mom had one of those Mom fits and they got a real serious lesson in life! LOL!

 

There ought to be some system, the school system, not the government, that has in their handbooks, look, if we send out or call a parent, and ask the parent to show up for a meeting, or to do something with their child, that if they don't...some kind of warning or some kind of money penalty... something to make these parents own up to raising their blasted kids.

 

What always gets me, is the ones that want nothing whatsoever to do with the school, but you let Little Johnny get a spanking at school, (even if they've signed the release), or somebody's picking on Little Johnny, you can betcha they'd be there in a heartbeat! I'm reminded of one particular uh, episode I attended because of a uh fight, and before I knew it, the coaches and the principal were jumping all over this other parent, and I'm thinking WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON? Obviously, problems had been coming to a head.

 

As far as the two-parent households, now that I have to disagree on - that's not an excuse. Well, truthfully, I don't think anything is an excuse. My husband was gone all the time, and I mean, all the time, only to come back maybe 2 weekends out of the month, and it was just me and the boys. I can guarantee you I never said, WE'RE GOING TO TELL YOUR DAD... I took care of it immediately...

 

So it boils down to no excuses whatsoever. It's not the school system we have to fix, except for the bad teachers, and the school system thinking they have to keep them, just because they've been there for so long, and a few other minor things, but really it boils down to the parents.

 

Now, how do you teach parents to be parents? Especially if they haven't been taught by their parents? There's no excuse WHATSOEVER for anyone, in this day and age, to be ignorant - I mean it just really isn't! So it still boils down to excuses and parents not raising their kids right.

 

As far as the perfect school system... well, first, you've got to have willing parents who are involved in their child's activities and schooling. I can't tell you how many times I've had kids tell me that their parents don't show up for their children's activities at school - now, that just flat infuritiates me! Excuses of, well, I'm tired; I want to get on the internet.... freaking lazy begets lazy, with very few exceptions.

 

But I know what you're saying... I have a sister and brother-in-law that really get to rolling on the subject of parents. The problem is, we're raising children who have a socialistic attitude... what's in it for me, and where's mine. They haven't been taught the very basic meaning of becoming an adult, much less how to survive.

 

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I hear it's rare from teachers, but not from parents I know. And generally not from teachers that I know.

 

No matter how you slice it, you won't even have a decent school system without parental involvement. If we can't have Mayberry, then some other model is required. The future depends on it.

 

Unless you think the school system should outrank the parents?

 

Of course the school system should never outrank the parents. But the current school system is held accountable even when parents are not. So in the absence of parents, the schools do their best to make sure they get one good meal a day, and some form of limited counseling when things are really messed up.

 

Our laws require drivers ed and a license to pilot a vehicle--which is a very serious task that requires a great deal of responsibility. But any two horny idiots can make babies with complete disregard to the responsibility of being a parent. I have acquaintances who think they are good fathers because the state garnishes their paychecks each month and they aren't on the "deadbeat dad" list. But short of "hitleresque" social engineering, how do we solve that problem? I think we would all agree that this is a much bigger problem than teaching to the TAKS test.

 

As a teacher, I've proposed to every elected official to change our accountability system from the current one to a growth based system. If I get a student that made a 38 on their math test last year, and this year they make a 55, I want some credit! Under the current system, I failed to successfully teach that child. This one change in how we keep score would put the focus back on the individual growth of the students (not the percentage of the students who made a 70)--and would TRULY assess the effectiveness of the teacher. This would drastically change the way classes are taught. If a teacher was given a student that made 83 last year, they would indeed have to engage that student to grow too--but currently if an 83 kid falls to a 73, the current system says the teacher did good by that kid!

 

The bottom line is that lower student to teacher ratios produce better results (check private school data for proof). If there were a bunch of stay at home moms that could volunteer dedicated time in the classroom, it would be free. But that is not a readily available resource in today's world. Low income kids don't get the "head start" they need--so intervention is a necessary evil. Extended day programs have shown very limited results. We have kids in the system for 7 hours a day--that is plenty of time to teach them. Our vocational programs are drying up due to standardized testing and a shrinking manufacturing/skills based job market. We have a mess on our hands!!!

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Of course the school system should never outrank the parents. But the current school system is held accountable even when parents are not. So in the absence of parents, the schools do their best to make sure they get one good meal a day, and some form of limited counseling when things are really messed up.

 

Our laws require drivers ed and a license to pilot a vehicle--which is a very serious task that requires a great deal of responsibility. But any two horny idiots can make babies with complete disregard to the responsibility of being a parent. I have acquaintances who think they are good fathers because the state garnishes their paychecks each month and they aren't on the "deadbeat dad" list. But short of "hitleresque" social engineering, how do we solve that problem? I think we would all agree that this is a much bigger problem than teaching to the TAKS test.

 

As a teacher, I've proposed to every elected official to change our accountability system from the current one to a growth based system. If I get a student that made a 38 on their math test last year, and this year they make a 55, I want some credit! Under the current system, I failed to successfully teach that child. This one change in how we keep score would put the focus back on the individual growth of the students (not the percentage of the students who made a 70)--and would TRULY assess the effectiveness of the teacher. This would drastically change the way classes are taught. If a teacher was given a student that made 83 last year, they would indeed have to engage that student to grow too--but currently if an 83 kid falls to a 73, the current system says the teacher did good by that kid!

 

The bottom line is that lower student to teacher ratios produce better results (check private school data for proof). If there were a bunch of stay at home moms that could volunteer dedicated time in the classroom, it would be free. But that is not a readily available resource in today's world. Low income kids don't get the "head start" they need--so intervention is a necessary evil. Extended day programs have shown very limited results. We have kids in the system for 7 hours a day--that is plenty of time to teach them. Our vocational programs are drying up due to standardized testing and a shrinking manufacturing/skills based job market. We have a mess on our hands!!!

That they were horny, or idiots, in no way relieves parents from responsibility. And I have no issues holding parents accountable.

 

There are other agents at play in your private school data, notably active parents.

 

Do you have any Vietnamese students? There weren't any here when I was in high school. Most of the influx was in the late seventies and early eighties. The kids went through public schools and haven't been seen since.

 

But my point. Pretty generally, these peasants came to the US from the jungle. The parents were extremely active in education. And the students were very successful. So successful that if there were say 100 students of Vietnamese parents in a class, you would be pretty safe to say that those students had the 100 highest GPAs in that class.

 

Class size didn't matter. Quality of the faculty didn't matter. Age of the text books didn't matter. Maintenance of the facilities did not matter. Many of the students could barely speak english, but whatever was required to excell was required by the parents. So the students excelled. Semester after semester, year after year.

 

So far, no study that I have seen has drawn any correlation between money spent per student, and the quality of the education produced. I would go a little further. I haven't seen any study that isolates class size from active parental participation. In fact, usually, advocacy groups downplay the parental role while promoting the benefits of small class size. Until I see a study that isolates them adequately, I'll look at class size as just another expensive red herring.

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Back to the topic at hand here.

 

You are the rare exception. I've taught public school for a while now, and I have more than enough fingers and toes to count the number of face to face conferences that were initiated or requested by the parents. I'd like to believe that they just trust me that much, but that would be very naive on my part.

 

So--the reality is that parents are not that involved. The school is saddled with the full responsibility of academic success. And if the kids fail despite all our efforts, it's because the teachers aren't good enough.

 

How do we fix it? How do we get more parents involved? How do we guarantee the success of all students with a 20+ to 1 student to teacher ratio when half of the third graders are reading at a 1st grade level?

 

I'm not picking on anyone here. I'm just interested in a free flow of ideas. We can't go back to the 1950's when two-parent households were the norm. We don't live in Mayberry today. So if we had a blank canvas and could start fresh--what would a perfect school system look like?

 

 

The number of parents in the household doesn't relinquish them of any responsibility to their child/children.

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How is she my new girlfriend ? In what way ? I simply see her as a person, a human being. You see her as a punching bag. You're acting like a school yard sissy, that can only attempt to deflate what is true.

 

God makes a deal with lucifer. Which validates my point, why would God give lucifer any power ? Why should this wayward "son of the morning" be given any power ? Hmmmmm, he's been cast out of heaven, yet God makes a bet with him regarding a righteous, God fearing man. Job losses everything to make a point that Our Father In Heaven knows what is best for us.

 

By the way, Randy "Macho Man" Savage, keep listening to your Village People.

 

 

And you are taking up for someone based on her gender, which is funny, based on your record of degrading women. If you think jenniferkay is a punching bag, then you have obviously taken her side and not given due credence to her comments. But for you, that's par for the course.

 

Satan has no power over us other that what we give him. You can post your bitterness regarding Job if you like. God proved a point. Sometimes our idea of what is best for us and God's are two diametrically opposed points. You would be wise to remember that.

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Once again, you have proven you either didn't read the entire post, which makes you a liar, or you ignored certain comments, which makes you ignorant.

 

I actually correct jenniferkay on the service comment. She was wrong. Now you are wrong.

 

But take solace in knowing you two are enjoying each other's company.

 

 

have you ever read the book a boy named it? it is a true story about a boy who was abused, starved, and all. the worst case of abuse in the state of California. Yet with no parental involvement Dave(his name) made something out of himself. go figure, bad parents the worst yet he made it. if your argument is parents are to blame, should he not be a failure about now.

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lucifer was taught by God. lucifer actually means "the morning star". he was educated by God Himself, look how he turned out. lucifer has a lot of power and influence, even more so in our day in age.

 

I've read the posts. Ya'll are jumping all over justsomeone, because she said Jeffrey Dahmer was raised by good parents. You can't even see what your doing, because she brought up Dahmer's name in a thread.

 

What justsomeone is pointing out, and I maybe wrong is that people can be raised in the best of homes and still turn out to be the "black sheep" of the family. People can be raised in the worst situations, and make a difference in people's lives. I think we can all look back in history, and see examples of both.

 

However, you choose not to. Sad, sad, sad.

the only one on here who gets it. that is what i was saying but you have to be on a higher level to understand it, some people on here just are not there yet.

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have you ever read the book a boy named it? it is a true story about a boy who was abused, starved, and all. the worst case of abuse in the state of California. Yet with no parental involvement Dave(his name) made something out of himself. go figure, bad parents the worst yet he made it. if your argument is parents are to blame, should he not be a failure about now.

Again, good kids can come from bad parents. Bad kids can come from good parents. Both of these are so rare as to be insignificant in the scheme of things. If you would like to give your kids the best chance to become decent human beings, be involved in their lives with or without their blessing.

 

Good parents raise good kids. Bad parents reinforce bad behavior or abdicate responsibility to the state, which is the same thing.

 

Oh, sorry. LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA!

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And you are taking up for someone based on her gender, which is funny, based on your record of degrading women. If you think jenniferkay is a punching bag, then you have obviously taken her side and not given due credence to her comments. But for you, that's par for the course.

 

Satan has no power over us other that what we give him. You can post your bitterness regarding Job if you like. God proved a point. Sometimes our idea of what is best for us and God's are two diametrically opposed points. You would be wise to remember that.

 

 

Point out where I have degraded women ? Show me one single post where I have. You can't. I don't even know if justsomeone is jenniferkay. However, you'd rather bash them, than understand them. Get out of your "Might is Right" mentality.

 

C'mon you can do better than that.

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Point out where I have degraded women ? Show me one single post where I have. You can't. I don't even know if justsomeone is jenniferkay. However, you'd rather bash them, than understand them. Get out of your "Might is Right" mentality.

 

C'mon you can do better than that.

 

 

Does this ring a bell Dave?

 

"Do-able. Not do-able..."

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Point out where I have degraded women ? Show me one single post where I have. You can't. I don't even know if justsomeone is jenniferkay. However, you'd rather bash them, than understand them. Get out of your "Might is Right" mentality.

 

C'mon you can do better than that.

 

Forget that quick?

 

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Point out where I have degraded women ? Show me one single post where I have. You can't. I don't even know if justsomeone is jenniferkay. However, you'd rather bash them, than understand them. Get out of your "Might is Right" mentality.

 

C'mon you can do better than that.

 

my name is in fact jennifer kay. funny how he keeps using it. He likes to call me susan, princess, victim, bully, man hater, every hateful thing he can come up with,Yet he says you degrade women. that is funny.

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have you ever read the book a boy named it? it is a true story about a boy who was abused, starved, and all. the worst case of abuse in the state of California. Yet with no parental involvement Dave(his name) made something out of himself. go figure, bad parents the worst yet he made it. if your argument is parents are to blame, should he not be a failure about now.

 

 

I thought you weren't responding to me.

 

Anyone who thinks parents don't mold the way their kids grow up and then act as adults has their heads in the sand.

 

If the shoe fits...

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my name is in fact jennifer kay. funny how he keeps using it. He likes to call me susan, princess, victim, bully, man hater, every hateful thing he can come up with,Yet he says you degrade women. that is funny.

 

You've acted that way so he merely called a spade a spade :thumbsup:

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my name is in fact jennifer kay. funny how he keeps using it. He likes to call me susan, princess, victim, bully, man hater, every hateful thing he can come up with,Yet he says you degrade women. that is funny.

 

 

Nice try princess. Point out a quote where I have degraded the female sex. You can't. I've used names as euphamisms to describe you, but I've never degraded women.

 

BTW, poor choice on the victim card.

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did you read the post at all? just wondering because it did not sound like it.

 

 

You've said all along that parents can't be blamed for the way their kids grow up and act. You changing your story now?

 

BTW, I thought you weren't responding to me anymore.

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