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Fivehead

No Refusal DWI Laws

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I would like to hear your opinion on the No Refusal DWI law. My view is that it is the latest nail in the coffin of Constitutionality in this country. The facet of this statute that makes it even more heinous than the ealier assualts on our civil rights is that a person could actually be legally physically harmed by a police officer in the name of public safety.

 

What if the DWI suspect in question was a hemophiliac? He could concievably be punctured by a needle and slowly bleed to death in a holding cell. What about the MRSA bacteria currently running rampant in this country? The MRSA staph could be introduced by a needle stick and spread throughout the body and attack organs and joints and kill the "suspect".

 

Five-0, you might as well get the ball rolling. I know you'll jump in and tell me how wrong I am eventually. Get it over with.

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Did i read the article wrong or are they not changing anything, just simply having everybody ready to go on the spot if somebody refuses?

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All Texas drivers have impliedly consented to provide a sample of breath or blood when it is lawfully requested by a police officer making a DWI arrest.

 

Impliedly? Impliedly?

 

This is a lot like having to click on the button that says you've read the Ts & Cs on a software package when you install it. Except they're saying that 70 year old drivers that have been driving in Texas for 55 years promised to give blood or breath before the term 'DWI' was coined.

 

I'm with Fivehead. This is an abuse of power. That they have approached the issue from a forced compliance standpoint is alarming.

 

If they really want people to comply, the solution is to make lack of compliance have the same penalty as DWI. And if the suspected DWI caused a death or injury, ramp up the penalty for refusal just like they would the DWI.

 

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I'm pretty sure that currently refusal earns you an automatic trip to jail. I don't know first hand, but that is my understanding. Where's a cop when you need one. :rolleyes: I'll have to call my buddy at TPD and see what he thinks.

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Guest bleeds
I'm pretty sure that currently refusal earns you an automatic trip to jail.

 

And a revocation of your license. Had a buddy who refused to blow. Arrested. Lost license.

 

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Yeah Bleeds, I find it is usually best to do whatever a police officer tells you to do. If you are guilty of something, then I guess you just shouldn't have done it.

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Yeah Bleeds, I find it is usually best to do whatever a police officer tells you to do. If you are guilty of something, then I guess you just shouldn't have done it.

 

 

Every attorney I've ever ask about this says you should never submit in the field. Simply tell the officer you will submit, but only in the presence of your attorney. That buys you time, and removes the refusal aspect of the incident.

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Every attorney I've ever ask about this says you should never submit in the field. Simply tell the officer you will submit, but only in the presence of your attorney. That buys you time, and removes the refusal aspect of the incident.

 

How do you get your attorney present at 1:00 in the morning?

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How do you get your attorney present at 1:00 in the morning?

 

 

That's the point. You haven't refused. You've actually agreed to the test, but only in the presence of your attorney. That buys you time. And what happens over time when you've been drinking?

 

Now you're getting it.

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That's the point. You haven't refused. You've actually agreed to the test, but only in the presence of your attorney. That buys you time. And what happens over time when you've been drinking?

 

Now you're getting it.

 

 

:thumbsup: I'll try that next time I get pulled over by da man when I'm leaving da club.

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:thumbsup: I'll try that next time I get pulled over by da man when I'm leaving da club.

 

 

Yeah, let me know how that works out for you.

 

Notice I didn't say I've tried this. Only that I've been told that's the thing to do. If it doesn't work, don't call me.

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The way I read it in the TMT this morning, even if you do refuse to blow unless your lawyer is present they are still going to take you to the hospital so a nurse can draw your blood. I assume they are going to hold you down while they do this. I don't think so Tim.

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The way I read it in the TMT this morning, even if you do refuse to blow unless your lawyer is present they are still going to take you to the hospital so a nurse can draw your blood. I assume they are going to hold you down while they do this. I don't think so Tim.

 

 

That would be post simian rectal emergence.

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Every attorney I've ever ask about this says you should never submit in the field. Simply tell the officer you will submit, but only in the presence of your attorney. That buys you time, and removes the refusal aspect of the incident.

Yep, that's what I also was told you should ALWAYS DO. Not that I need to know it, but good to know, just in case I get a wild hair. LOL!

 

What will happen in court is the defense attorney arguing amendment rights. This one will end up going to the Supreme Court!

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Yep, that's what I also was told you should ALWAYS DO. Not that I need to know it, but good to know, just in case I get a wild hair. LOL!

 

What will happen in court is the defense attorney arguing amendment rights. This one will end up going to the Supreme Court!

 

 

...and be overturned.

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...and be overturned.

 

Why should we have to have the supreme court have to waste time as well as taxpayer dollars over this in the first place? It's uncostitutional from the get go....

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Fivehead, I strongly disagree with your argument that this is a violation of our Constitution. Court cases deaing with Impied Consent laws have consently upheld the constitutionality of these laws. I am going to assume you know and understand the basic concepts of the 4th amendment to the U.S. Constitution, along with the 5th amendment's right not to self-incriminate oneself.

 

Probably the first and foremost reason is because of the "consent" issue. Consent is a waiver of Consitutional rights (especially under the 4th and 5th amendments). When a potential driver seeks to obtain a driver's license from a state that has an Implied Consent law in place, when the driver requests and obtains their driver's license (which, by the way is a privelege, not a right!). The driver is required to sign and acknowledge that they understand the Implied Consent law requirements AND if they are suspected of operating a motor vehicle under the influence, and they are requested to give a breath OR blood specimen AND they refuse to do so, then the state (under the implied consent law) may then seek a search warrant (in compliance of 4th amendment requirements).

 

Because a search warrant is sought and issued by a magistrate, then there is NO 4th amendment problem. Also, because the driver has a driver's license (and thus, has been forewarned of the Implied Consent laws) when they refuse to provide a breath specimen (as required by law), then law enforcement may seek the search warrant for blood and then have that blood sample drawn by a trained medical pprofessional (i.e. nurse, etc.) and then because of the search warrant, there is no 5th amendment violation.

 

The kicker here is that the blood sample is obtained with a search warrant, thus precluding the question whether the search was reasonable or not (or in otherwords, a violation of the 4th amendment). Because of the warrant, these cases will typically hold up in court everytime.

 

And by the way Parent - I believe the USSC has already dealt with the issue of having the right to a lawyer present in the implied consent request and have ruled that there is NO RIGHT to an attorney in these situations.

 

Finally, I go back to USDoc (by the way Doc, be safe!), IF YOU DRINK - THEN DON'T DRIVE!

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