No Refusal DWI Laws

[buckeyefan1984]

Typical cop mentality. I refuse a test so I'm guilty and trying to cover that. Innocent until investigated, huh Five0?

 

No. My goal would be to preserve my rights. Rights. Remember those. Skew it as you would. The Constitution offers me those rights. It is judges who have changed the meaning and intent of the framers of the COTUS to make it easy to get convictions.

 

DHCF even said it. Other sources of DNA are available. But they make it very difficult to obtain a DNA determination. Blood makes it easier.

 

Are we throwing out the rights of the individual for the sake of ease and comfort of the cop or the system? Save your brain cells. The answer to that is "Yes".

 

Thus the post that started with "typical cop mentality". No bleeds, it was an opinion based on personal experience from a law enforcement officer.

 

This was just in case you were going to say that it was one of us cops that started it all.

 

 

 

 

 

[applebutter]

I'll leave this clip for you as a final see, I told ya so.....

 

Not appreciated at all.

 

You have one coming from me.

[buckeyefan1984]

I've gone back and read your comments leading up to, including, and after the post from which I excepted your quote. Except for the above quote by you, there was no indication from you the scenario involved the assumption of guilt/intoxication, only that you assumed the only reason someone wouldn't blow would be to attempt to get away with a crime. I may have missed it. If you can bring me up to speed by quoting that comment, along with the post number, I'll retract my comment.

 

But regardless, you have now contradicted yourself for the second time. You assume I won't blow because I want to get away with the crime. Then you say you don't assume guilt. Now you're saying you do again.

 

So, let me be the one to type as slowly as I need to so you can understand.

 

Lose the cop attitude. You have admitted now twice you are assuming guilt, even though the law allows for assumption of innocense until proof to the contrary.

 

You have now indicated your zeal in holding a suspect down in order to get a blood sample, in dragging a suspect across the hospital, and now you've assumed guilt based solely on a suspects refusal to blow.

 

You don't paint a very appealing picture of yourself or those in your profession.

 

A second post with the words "cop attitude" in it. Why not just make the comment of his personal attitude instead of it being a "cop attitude"?

 

Just wondering?

 

 

 

[buckeyefan1984]

I'll leave this clip for you as a final see, I told ya so.....

 

 

I saw it, wished I hadn't, but I saw it.

 

 

 

 

 

[buckeyefan1984]

BEF, you have danced around the facts of this since you first posted. You keep referring to the law. The law says this. The law allows for that. You've completely missed the jist of the complaints against the law.

 

Allow me to go on to say it is cops such as yourself, if in fact you are a cop, give credance to Fivehead's discription of same as jackbooted thugs. You immediately assume (as you have stated more than once now) those of us who see flaws in this law you so passionately defend, are conspiracy theorists. If we go with your logic, then any and all laws on the books ARE NOT TO BE CHALLENGED OR QUESTIONED. Any sane and sound American will tell you that ALL laws should be questioned and/or challenged. That is the accountability vehicle by which we hold our government responsible to serve the people, not dominate them.

 

 

So, before you grab the wide brush and begin painting us from your narrow-minded perspective of "right", understand that badge doesn't give you that right. I am not a conspiracy theorist, nor do I drink and drive. I detest those who do and have seen, in my line of work, all to often the consequences of those who do. But this isn't about me taking umbrage with laws forbidding drinking and driving. It is about me wanting my rights intact.

 

BTW, it is not at all surprising you don't find LEO's, judges or legislators finding fault with these laws. Notice nowhere in that list you provided do you find the words "We the people".

 

Oh, one more thing. It's "moot", not "mute". Say "mute" on the stand in that context and you will immediately lose credibility. :thumbsup:

 

Now then, before you go out and say that I started in on you first, this post by you can set the story straight. At no point before this can you say that I set out to call you, AB, Blue conspiracy theorists. I was talking ABOUT "conspiracy theorists" who assume that everyone in law enforcement is out there to take away personal rights.

 

This right here was the post where you started the whole "holier than thou" attitude with me. I was merely posting "my" opnions which I guess is "not" supported by the same right to free speech that YOU get to enjoy.

 

Now who is being typical?

 

 

 

 

 

[buckeyefan1984]

Hmmm. I see you've got your cop attitude in full swing tonight.

 

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but again, proving a point.

 

Another post about "cop attitude" because of a police officer's "opinion".

 

Maybe I'm done, maybe I'm not.

 

I was willing to be civil about things until bleeds decided that civility wasn't in his best interest. So I guess bleeds would consider this to be cop attitude as well?

[Five0pd310]

I was speaking of being a cop and the associations thereof hypothetically. You are tying hypotheticals to reality. Do you really think, with the tone of my posts, that I fear what others might think of me? I think you know me well enough to know I tend to be unphased by the perception of others. I mean, really. But if I was a cop, I probably would be worried about what others thought, as I have seen many of the ones I know preen and pose when ever a mirror is available. Pretty disgusting.

 

Men in general, from any profession, who do this are disgusting. Agreed. However, it shows that you obviously don't know me at all. If you think I'm a pretty boy afraid to get dirty then well, I don't know what to tell you. You couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[BluePirate]

You fight fires, good for you. But unfortunately, that is all you fight. You want to REALLY fight against something, then step on up and show your true manhood. A fire can't reach across the street to hurt you, you have to go to it. A fire you can see in both night and day, and of course you fight the biggest part of the fire from OUTSIDE, AWAY from it.

 

But the biggest thing about fighting a fire, it doesn't shoot at you.

 

Look, you clearly know nothing about fire behavior and even less about fire science. A structure fire isn't fought from outside the stucture and you saying it is makes me believe you've never seen firefighters work.

 

The fact is, we do things that you don't do and you do things that we don't do. If we show up and there is gunfire, we call for police backup, just as you call FD if you're shot/stabbed/injured or if you wreck your cop car and want out of it.

 

Can we get back on topic?

 

[Five0pd310]

I've put out car fires twice with people stuck in them. That doesn't mean I know the art of fire fighting. I'm going to remain silent in this segment of the debate.

 

I just thik it's funny that y'all got Rick Rolled with the aid of a Cop vs. Fireman fight teaser.

[BluePirate]

I've put out car fires twice with people stuck in them. That doesn't mean I know the art of fire fighting. I'm going to remain silent in this segment of the debate.

 

I just thik it's funny that y'all got Rick Rolled with the aid of a Cop vs. Fireman fight teaser.

 

With a 2.5# extinguisher? Not much fire.

 

BTW, I saw that video last night.

[Guest bleeds]

Men in general, from any profession, who do this are disgusting. Agreed. However, it shows that you obviously don't know me at all. If you think I'm a pretty boy afraid to get dirty then well, I don't know what to tell you. You couldn't be further from the truth.

 

 

Come on Five0, I'll tell you the same as you told me. You're better than that. I never said, nor did I insinuate or even think you were like that. I said many of the cops I know are like that.

 

Everything I've said about firefighters becoming cops and cops becoming firefighters is from personal experience. Even went on to say I couldn't speak outside my scope of experience on that issue.

 

Unless I am mistaken, it would seem our (read: yours and my) hackles are relaxing a little, which is good. Your little buddy, however doesn't seem to be able to let things lie. So I will continue to address his posts seperately from yours. :thumbsup:

[Guest bleeds]

You know bleeds, you remind me of that little kid who thinks that his old man was the greatest, or that teenage girl who thinks that her boyfriend was the best thing ever. So goes your attitude about yourself. Let me ask you bleeds, do you "NEED" for everyone to think that you're the greatest about everything? I've already showed you that I knew the differences between diabetes and hypoglycemia, but then I had to show the difference between diabetic emergency and someone who was drunk.

 

LOL

 

You know bleeds, you're nothing more than a fire fighter who wants everyone to believe that he is something he's not. You want everyone to believe that you're a fire fighter, a constitutional wizard, an EMT, etc...

 

Am I leaving something out?

 

Fire fighter envy? not hardly. You fight fires, good for you. But unfortunately, that is all you fight. You want to REALLY fight against something, then step on up and show your true manhood. A fire can't reach across the street to hurt you, you have to go to it. A fire you can see in both night and day, and of course you fight the biggest part of the fire from OUTSIDE, AWAY from it.

 

But the biggest thing about fighting a fire, it doesn't shoot at you.

 

When you're on a call bleeds and the lead starts flying, what are you going to do? point a hose at it?

 

Exactly.

 

Fire fighter envy?

 

Now I'm really laughing.

 

 

_______________________________

 

 

Wrong again there bleeds, it was you who started that little exchange between us Why would I start on the fire fighter comments if YOU hadn't started with the "cop attitude" comments.. You see, your problem is that you WANT to be able to say whatever you want, but NOT have to take responsibility for those words. You WANT to be able to say anything then PASS it off on the other person.

 

In other words, it's ALWAYS the other person's fault.

 

I think I have you pegged dead on with the little kid analogy.

 

I bet the next thing you're going to say is that it wasn't you who said it, that it was Blue Pirate or someone else that did. Or, that you never said cop attitude at all. Figures that you would say that I started it all.

 

 

_______________________________

 

 

Thus the post that started with "typical cop mentality". No bleeds, it was an opinion based on personal experience from a law enforcement officer.

 

This was just in case you were going to say that it was one of us cops that started it all.

 

 

________________________________

 

 

A second post with the words "cop attitude" in it. Why not just make the comment of his personal attitude instead of it being a "cop attitude"?

 

Just wondering?

 

 

 

________________________________

 

 

Now then, before you go out and say that I started in on you first, this post by you can set the story straight. At no point before this can you say that I set out to call you, AB, Blue conspiracy theorists. I was talking ABOUT "conspiracy theorists" who assume that everyone in law enforcement is out there to take away personal rights.

 

This right here was the post where you started the whole "holier than thou" attitude with me. I was merely posting "my" opnions which I guess is "not" supported by the same right to free speech that YOU get to enjoy.

 

Now who is being typical?

 

WOW BEF! I didn't know you cared so much.

 

First, your description of how I do my job is obviously something you saw on TV. If you had tried to be more wrong, I don't think you could have. I don't intend to get into a "measuring" contest with you in regards to our jobs. As I have already admitted, our jobs are about as mutually exclusive as they can be, with different personalities manifested in each. But if you think the bulk of my job is done on the outside looking in, then once again, you're posting about something you know nothing about.

 

Second, I've never said my job was more harrowing or heroic than yours. I do my job and do my best to avoid monikers like "hero" because it paints guys like me as something we are not. I do the job I'm trained to do, whether that entails going into a burning structure to extinguish it, rescue a trapped occupant or fellow firefighter, or extricate someone from a wrecked car, or affect a high-angle rescue. I go on medical calls and do the same thing; the job I'm trained to do. If me doing my job offends you, I'm sorrow for you. Nowhere have I painted myself as anything but a guy doing his job.

 

As for the "cop attitude" comment, you are correct. I have used it on several occasions. The first time was in response to what I perceived to be, yes, cop attitude. Funny, I was by no means the only one who noticed, and/or commented about it.

 

What you don't know is, this thing with Five0, BluePirate, and myself happens occasionally. It is nothing new to any of us. And whether it is positive or productive or not is a point for debate. But it happens. Five0 thinks what he thinks about BluePirate and myself, and I think what I think about him. I'm assuming the same holds true for BluePirate. I think we all think each other is basically a good guy who gets a little carried away sometimes.

 

Now, as I have said, I don't view myself, as you put it, an "all mighty fire fighter". But I am an exceptional firefighter. You can attempt to draw contrasts to our jobs and how heroic they are by demeaning the job I do, even though you have proven you know nothing about the job I, or firefighters in general, do. In fact, your description of same would indicate to me and whatever other firefighters who might read it, that you do indeed believe TV firefighting is indicative of real firefighting.

 

As for the constitutional wizard, firefighter, EMT, I'm two out of three for sure. I've never said, or indicated I believe cops to be engaged in any conspiracy to rob me of my rights. Your inference that I do proves you'll make up any story, regardless of how preposterous, in an attempt to prove your point. My arguement is, and has always been that the constitution does not, in it's text, give anyone the right to take living tissue from my body, but only through rulings from activist judges/justices does that right exist. I believe there were many others who held that same stance. I've been accused of saying the right doesn't exist, or that it should be harder. I have only said that the text of the COTUS doesn't offer that right.

 

Now, if you care to continue to tilt at windmills, rock on. My comments about cops and cop attitude, which you now have exhibited to the nth degree, was in response to what I perceived at the time. You can insinuate you are better because you are a cop than I am because I am a firefighter. But if you believe that, then you should be neither.

 

I would recommend to you that you step back, take a deep breath, reach out, and get a grip. You have fallen off the level platform of reason and onto the unstable ground of ranting.

 

[buckeyefan1984]

Look, you clearly know nothing about fire behavior and even less about fire science. A structure fire isn't fought from outside the stucture and you saying it is makes me believe you've never seen firefighters work.

 

The fact is, we do things that you don't do and you do things that we don't do. If we show up and there is gunfire, we call for police backup, just as you call FD if you're shot/stabbed/injured or if you wreck your cop car and want out of it.

 

Can we get back on topic?

 

Blue, several times I have tried to get back on topic, but someone wanted to continue with the antics of a five year old. I'm all for getting back on topic, but will defend myself when needed.

[buckeyefan1984]

Come on Five0, I'll tell you the same as you told me. You're better than that. I never said, nor did I insinuate or even think you were like that. I said many of the cops I know are like that.

 

Everything I've said about firefighters becoming cops and cops becoming firefighters is from personal experience. Even went on to say I couldn't speak outside my scope of experience on that issue.

 

Unless I am mistaken, it would seem our (read: yours and my) hackles are relaxing a little, which is good. Your little buddy, however doesn't seem to be able to let things lie. So I will continue to address his posts seperately from yours. :thumbsup:

 

No bleeds, that was all your doing. If you want this to be civil, then keep it civil. If not, then expect more of the same. :thumbsup:

[BluePirate]

No bleeds, that was all your doing. If you want this to be civil, then keep it civil. If not, then expect more of the same. :thumbsup:

 

^ Master hijacker. Again...

[buckeyefan1984]

WOW BEF! I didn't know you cared so much.

 

First, your description of how I do my job is obviously something you saw on TV. If you had tried to be more wrong, I don't think you could have. I don't intend to get into a "measuring" contest with you in regards to our jobs. As I have already admitted, our jobs are about as mutually exclusive as they can be, with different personalities manifested in each. But if you think the bulk of my job is done on the outside looking in, then once again, you're posting about something you know nothing about.

 

Second, I've never said my job was more harrowing or heroic than yours. I do my job and do my best to avoid monikers like "hero" because it paints guys like me as something we are not. I do the job I'm trained to do, whether that entails going into a burning structure to extinguish it, rescue a trapped occupant or fellow firefighter, or extricate someone from a wrecked car, or affect a high-angle rescue. I go on medical calls and do the same thing; the job I'm trained to do. If me doing my job offends you, I'm sorrow for you. Nowhere have I painted myself as anything but a guy doing his job.

 

As for the "cop attitude" comment, you are correct. I have used it on several occasions. The first time was in response to what I perceived to be, yes, cop attitude. Funny, I was by no means the only one who noticed, and/or commented about it.

 

What you don't know is, this thing with Five0, BluePirate, and myself happens occasionally. It is nothing new to any of us. And whether it is positive or productive or not is a point for debate. But it happens. Five0 thinks what he thinks about BluePirate and myself, and I think what I think about him. I'm assuming the same holds true for BluePirate. I think we all think each other is basically a good guy who gets a little carried away sometimes.

 

Now, as I have said, I don't view myself, as you put it, an "all mighty fire fighter". But I am an exceptional firefighter. You can attempt to draw contrasts to our jobs and how heroic they are by demeaning the job I do, even though you have proven you know nothing about the job I, or firefighters in general, do. In fact, your description of same would indicate to me and whatever other firefighters who might read it, that you do indeed believe TV firefighting is indicative of real firefighting.

 

As for the constitutional wizard, firefighter, EMT, I'm two out of three for sure. I've never said, or indicated I believe cops to be engaged in any conspiracy to rob me of my rights. Your inference that I do proves you'll make up any story, regardless of how preposterous, in an attempt to prove your point. My arguement is, and has always been that the constitution does not, in it's text, give anyone the right to take living tissue from my body, but only through rulings from activist judges/justices does that right exist. I believe there were many others who held that same stance. I've been accused of saying the right doesn't exist, or that it should be harder. I have only said that the text of the COTUS doesn't offer that right.

 

Now, if you care to continue to tilt at windmills, rock on. My comments about cops and cop attitude, which you now have exhibited to the nth degree, was in response to what I perceived at the time. You can insinuate you are better because you are a cop than I am because I am a firefighter. But if you believe that, then you should be neither.

 

I would recommend to you that you step back, take a deep breath, reach out, and get a grip. You have fallen off the level platform of reason and onto the unstable ground of ranting.

 

Actually, I wasn't the one who brought up the comparison but got blamed for it anyway. Now then, this could have been over a long time ago, but you simply refused to drop it. When I posted a scenario, I was supposedly attempting to make everyone seem stupid, however when you posted scenarios it was to look for answers...and you would get all bent out of shape when you didn't get them.

 

Wow, a double standard, who would have thought it.

 

What you perceived to be cop attitude? wait, you weren't sure? You went off on the two of us because of something that you perceived? that figures. Hey, you know there was a solution for that...

 

maybe you could have ASKED.

 

No, you just decided that it was cop attitude and decided to go off. Yes, the same very attitude that you accused us of having.

 

Now then, what you said about Blue Pirate, Five-0, and yourself. You guys may have a "perception" about one another and that is all well and good, but I didn't have a "set" perception about any of you before getting involved in this "discussion". All I wanted to do was give an "opinion" on the subject but instead, got blasted for having an opinion outside of yours. If you had doubts as to what I meant, you should have asked, I definitely would have told you.

 

( As for the constitutional wizard, firefighter, EMT, I'm two out of three for sure. I've never said, or indicated I believe cops to be engaged in any conspiracy to rob me of my rights. Your inference that I do proves you'll make up any story, regardless of how preposterous, in an attempt to prove your point. My arguement is, and has always been that the constitution does not, in it's text, give anyone the right to take living tissue from my body, but only through rulings from activist judges/justices does that right exist. I believe there were many others who held that same stance. I've been accused of saying the right doesn't exist, or that it should be harder. I have only said that the text of the COTUS doesn't offer that right.)

 

I'm calling Bravo Sierra right now. You show me one time where I have even remotely hinted that you "SAID" that you believe cops are engaged in conspiracy to rob you of your rights? That statement right there proves that YOU are the one to be guilty of making up stories in an attempt to prove a point. But hey, go ahead and show me where I said it...I'll be waiting forever on this one.

 

Now then, "YOUR" interpretation of the constitution does not give anyone the right to take living tissue from your body. But unless you were actually there when it was written, it is exactly that "YOUR" interpretation.

 

( Now, if you care to continue to tilt at windmills, rock on. My comments about cops and cop attitude, which you now have exhibited to the nth degree, was in response to what I perceived at the time. You can insinuate you are better because you are a cop than I am because I am a firefighter. But if you believe that, then you should be neither.)

 

Again, what you perceived at the time. Sorry there bleeds, but when you started talking about cop attitude, I hadn't even posted yet. At the time you made the first cop attitude post, there wasn't any attitude being shown from anyone, other than yourself. So I think that it was your attitude instead of cop attitude that was being shown on the boards, as evidenced by me showing them on page 38 of this thread. Again, it was you firefighters who picked this little deal with the cops, not the other way around.

 

( I would recommend to you that you step back, take a deep breath, reach out, and get a grip. You have fallen off the level platform of reason and onto the unstable ground of ranting. )

 

Actually, I had taken a step back and didn't post for awhile. But what was the first thing that you did when you came back? exactly. I said that if you wanted to be civil with this and get back on track we could, but if you wanted to continue with the current banter...

 

well, we can do that also.

 

The choice is yours. :thumbsup:

[buckeyefan1984]

^ Master hijacker. Again...

 

Sorry, but I call it as I see it. If he wants to be civil then we can be civil. Once again I'm giving him a way out so that we can get back on topic.

 

I guess we'll see what happens now won't we.

[Guest bleeds]

No bleeds, that was all your doing. If you want this to be civil, then keep it civil. If not, then expect more of the same. :thumbsup:

 

 

Riiight. :thumbsup:

[Guest bleeds]

No bleeds, that was all your doing. If you want this to be civil, then keep it civil. If not, then expect more of the same. :thumbsup:

 

 

I see now you've taken it upon yourself to become Five0's mouthpiece. Did you okay that response with him, or as is the norm with you, just assume you knew best and answered for him without asking?

 

I'm betting on the latter.

 

Dude, you need to get a grip.

[Guest bleeds]

Sorry, but I call it as I see it. If he wants to be civil then we can be civil. Once again I'm giving him a way out so that we can get back on topic.

 

I guess we'll see what happens now won't we.

 

 

As all watched from the sidelines, it became abundantly apparent Silvio had let them get the best of him.

[buckeyefan1984]

I see now you've taken it upon yourself to become Five0's mouthpiece. Did you okay that response with him, or as is the norm with you, just assume you knew best and answered for him without asking?

 

I'm betting on the latter.

 

Dude, you need to get a grip.

 

And there's your answer folks.

 

Now then, I never said that I was anyone's mouthpiece, those were your words and not mine. You said that you were going to address my posts separate from his, which you have plainly done. So I'm now responding to comments aimed at me and about me. I don't need to clear my posts with anyone, neither does anyone have to clear posts with me. Sorry bleeds, but you are what you are. You were anticipating a response from me when you typed those words, so don't get all bent out of shape when you get what you've asked for.

 

Sorry bleeds, but you're the one who needs to get a grip. I've plainly stated that I'm all for being civil but that seems to be over your head, so I will post accordingly. :thumbsup:

[Five0pd310]

With a 2.5# extinguisher? Not much fire.

Exactly. That's why I don't play the "I'm better tahn a fire fighter" game. I have some basic knowledge of their trucks and can help them retrieve things and I will lay ;ines when requested, but I leave the heavy duty stuff up to the professionals.

As far as the accident scene fires, it was some fluids under the hood that lit up. Both times I happened to be standing there when the flames showed themselves and I was able to knock them out without any problems. I put out a porch fire once with the same equipment (I guess 2.5 lb, you'd know better than I). It took 2 of them though. Mine and another officer's. That one got a little dicey. Thankfully the FD was there in short order.

[Five0pd310]

I have a question.

 

What exactly are my hackles and where can they be located?

 

Can I injure them in, let's say, a skateboarding incident?

[Guest bleeds]

And there's your answer folks.

 

Now then, I never said that I was anyone's mouthpiece, those were your words and not mine. You said that you were going to address my posts separate from his, which you have plainly done. So I'm now responding to comments aimed at me and about me. I don't need to clear my posts with anyone, neither does anyone have to clear posts with me. Sorry bleeds, but you are what you are. You were anticipating a response from me when you typed those words, so don't get all bent out of shape when you get what you've asked for.

 

Sorry bleeds, but you're the one who needs to get a grip. I've plainly stated that I'm all for being civil but that seems to be over your head, so I will post accordingly. :thumbsup:

 

 

Breathe in. Exhale. Breathe in. Exhale. Repeat as needed.

 

Okay Pepper Anderson, try to keep up. You took it upon yourself to answer for Five0, thus the comment.

 

BTW, I'm impressed. Not only are you a rough-tough, get it done when the lead starts flyin' (I laugh every time I read that), stern-faced cop, but now, you are a mind reader. How else could you have known what I was thinking when I posted my comment to Five0.

 

As far as being civil, I honestly can't recall the last post in which you were.

 

There you go boy. Fetch. Go get the stick. Fetch boy!

[Guest bleeds]

I have a question.

 

What exactly are my hackles and where can they be located?

 

Can I injure them in, let's say, a skateboarding incident?

 

 

Yes.