TiggerTerror Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yes it is really. You are obligated to make an attempt to identify your target before you shoot. You don't just shoot anyone you see with a gun. Hopefully, based on your responses, you are not a concealed handgun license holder. Shots fired at a local mall where you happen to be shopping. The gunman is literally merely feet away. As you watch, he begins to shoot everyone close to you, working his aim toward you until finally, you are in his sights. As you attempt to gather your loved ones, you reach for your completely legal and licensed weapon. You raise your weapon in a defensive posture that shelters your kids or wife. You draw down on the gunman and stare him down. You warn him that you will shoot. He does not drop his weapon and in an instant you make your decision and fire. At the same time, another licensed citizen responding to the shots arrives on the scene and instinctively shoots at the only person that they have seen discharge a weapon. Both gunmen are down. The mall crowd is in a frenzy, as other people realize what is happening. Other licensed citizens arrive on the scene, and are literally unable to decide who is the bad guy. Two people down and another holding a gun. How much time is required to make a good decision here? QUESTIONS: Is it possible to make a decision in an instant that reflects what you were taught during your CC training? Should you really have tried to use your weapon to defend the mall or just your family? Was there a chance at all that you could have injured another innocent person? See, I carry too. If my family or friends are with me in the situation described, MY ANSWER I will be a coward and only attempt to protect them without further endangering them. I will only choose to show my weapon under extreme duress. The classical logic says that once two people start shooting, the good guys do not have time to decide who is on their side. At this point you shoot at the one who does not look like you. Nothing to do with Eastwood, but by shooting you make the ones with you a target. I won't even go along with "Shoot his gun hand". Now a baseball bat or umbrella in close quarters can be effective and less confusing. Oh and I seldom go to the mall! When I go to a zoo, I want to see furry animals and birds. THIS IS WHAT I SAID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Maybe my posts are the only ones that you read. If you will go back through this thread, you will find that I am one of the ones that has recommended not even exposing your weapon. The cowboys on here, including a policeman has advocated shooting and asking questions later. I have only suggested that in a shooting incident, unless he is wearing a uniform (like a POLICE Officer) the good guys may be hard to distinguish from the bad guys. If you actually read what I posted there wwould be no question that I am credentialed to carry a weapon. I choose the places that I go, based upon my perception of the safety that my family will be in. I do not put places where I think I need a weapon on the top of my list. If you had read what I posted you would know that my recommendation for a weapon in the scenario posted was not even a gun. I questioned what might happen if more than one person chose to be a hero and stop a shooter, by shooting. A prisoner of his own literal mindset, Boley stood naked, rereading the sign in his mind, "Baseball tryouts. All you need is your glove and your cleats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiggerTerror Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 At that point I wouldn't care if it was a 13 year old girl who had never held a gun in her life. If you got it, shoot it. The more the merrier. Everyone pull 'em out and throw lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiggerTerror Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I've got a gun. My wife's got a gun. If anyone threatens either one of us with a gun, we will kill them. BP I think Fivehead summed it up nicely... again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 THIS IS WHAT I SAID Although the best in the land, Trevor's quickdraw skills were meant for another era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiggerTerror Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You bet! My only question would be do I take him out with the first shot or do I shoot the gun out of his hand, then use the other remaining bullets to "punish" him for his bad deeds. :devil: :bye: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiggerTerror Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 While Steve stacked pallets he mused, "Why has the cost of living still not affected its popularity?" OOPS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluePirate Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 BP I think Fivehead summed it up nicely... again. I know. I said that right under his comment you quoted, Corky. Besides... While Steven completed the most menial of the unskilled tasks he questioned, "Why does everybody have a different definition of 'good enough'?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 OOPS!!! Focused intently on his daily task of removing splinters from his fingers, Patrick thought proudly to himself, "I showed them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiggerTerror Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Focused intently on his daily task of removing splinters from his fingers, Patrick thought proudly to himself, "I showed them." Even though he knew there were too many stars to count, he solemnly began at 400 and counted down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Even though he knew there were too many stars to count, he solemnly began at 400 and counted down! You said you don't take your family places where you think you might need a gun. Do you think you might need a gun in a mall? I'm sure those who have been confronted by gunmen in malls didn't think they'd need one either. But just think of the lives that could have been saved if someone had had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluePirate Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Even though he knew there were too many stars to count, he solemnly began at 400 and counted down! I find it difficult to believe a real CHL holder would view the legal discharge of his handgun to defend his family "confusing", like you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal13 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Maybe my posts are the only ones that you read. If you will go back through this thread, you will find that I am one of the ones that has recommended not even exposing your weapon. The cowboys on here, including a policeman has advocated shooting and asking questions later. I have only suggested that in a shooting incident, unless he is wearing a uniform (like a POLICE Officer) the good guys may be hard to distinguish from the bad guys. If you actually read what I posted there wwould be no question that I am credentialed to carry a weapon. I choose the places that I go, based upon my perception of the safety that my family will be in. I do not put places where I think I need a weapon on the top of my list. If you had read what I posted you would know that my recommendation for a weapon in the scenario posted was not even a gun. I questioned what might happen if more than one person chose to be a hero and stop a shooter, by shooting. Look, maybe you're losing some of your mental focus in your old age, but try to pay closer attention. I have read all the posts on this topic, but was specifically responding to your "scenario" of CHL shooting the first person he/she saw with a gun. I have tried to explain my point, and to no ones' suprise you fail to grasp the concept. Now, could a law abiding CHL holder make a mistake as to who the bad guy is? Possibly, but you don't just go into a situation and start shooting at anyone with a gun. Maybe that's what YOU would do, but of course I am referring to those people who would be equipped with common sense. Obviously I am not referring to you. It is also obvious that you are NOT a CHL holder. If you were, you would also know that a baseball bat is not a legal carry weapon. Good thing no one with any sense is going to follow your "recommendation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I have tried to explain my point, and to no ones' suprise you fail to grasp the concept. Something we noticed since first he graced us with his presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applebutter Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Look, maybe you're losing some of your mental focus in your old age, but try to pay closer attention. I have read all the posts on this topic, but was specifically responding to your "scenario" of CHL shooting the first person he/she saw with a gun. I have tried to explain my point, and to no ones' suprise you fail to grasp the concept. Now, could a law abiding CHL holder make a mistake as to who the bad guy is? Possibly, but you don't just go into a situation and start shooting at anyone with a gun. Maybe that's what YOU would do, but of course I am referring to those people who would be equipped with common sense. Obviously I am not referring to you. It is also obvious that you are NOT a CHL holder. If you were, you would also know that a baseball bat is not a legal carry weapon. Good thing no one with any sense is going to follow your "recommendation". I've heard that by holding the gun sideways like a gangsta, tee-tee gets a feeling for who he should shoot first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal13 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I've heard that by holding the gun sideways like a gangsta, tee-tee gets a feeling for who he should shoot first. you mean his "gat" or his "nine"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiggerTerror Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 you mean his "gat" or his "nine"... Be very sure that if I were in a situation where it became necesarry to expose it, it is and would be a Glock 20C with 165 gr. Cor-Bon ammo. In your haste to discredit me, you neglected a very important part of the process. You have yet to read what I said. This thread began with a scenario that pointed to what very obviously seemed to require a shooting solution. The originator never called for anyone to shoot, but asked if anyone would reconsider their position on handguns and carry(at least that is how I perceived it), if they could picture themselves in that very realistic situation. I simply added what I thought was at least a reasonable extension to the original scenario, since several people suggested "blazing". Again in large letters I said, "You raise your weapon in a defensive posture that shelters your kids or wife. You draw down on the gunman and stare him down. You warn him that you will shoot. He does not drop his weapon and in an instant you make your decision and fire. At the same time, another licensed citizen responding to the shots arrives on the scene and instinctively shoots at the only person that they have seen discharge a weapon. Both gunmen are down. The mall crowd is in a frenzy, as other people realize what is happening. Other licensed citizens arrive on the scene, and are literally unable to decide who is the bad guy. Two people down and another holding a gun. How much time is required to make a good decision here?" Why does the last guy shoot? Because he saw the first one shoot, and there are bodies on the floor as originally stated. If he was responding to a shooting incident, I would not expect him to come there asking are you a good guy or a bad guy, with a gun in the guys hand. I tell you what, Five-0 pd had the right idea "the more the merrier" and he is a policeman. Yea, I grasp the idea allright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Tangled in his own web of deceit, Brandon could only stare at the half-eaten jar of orange marmalade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveTV1 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 It's a horrific situation, none the less. Would I want for someone to that had a sane mind to pull the trigger and take the killer out ? Of course. I understand the adrenaline is pumping and flowing. This reminds me of a Steven Seagal movie. I guess when you have two sea gal's posting this is what you get : :rolleyes: And I live in fantasy land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applebutter Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 ...I said, "You raise your weapon in a defensive posture that shelters your kids or wife. ... That's some impressive defensive posture. Or is it merely a very large weapon? I can't picture my weapon actually sheltering my wife, or my kids. Does it keep out the rain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluePirate Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 In your haste to discredit me, you neglected a very important part of the process. You have yet to read what I said. This thread began with a scenario that pointed to what very obviously seemed to require a shooting solution. The originator never called for anyone to shoot, but asked if anyone would reconsider their position on handguns and carry(at least that is how I perceived it), if they could picture themselves in that very realistic situation. Jubilant at the possibility of receiving a new dickey, Lowell lamented having to first finish the mundane job he had capriciously accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiggerTerror Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 That's some impressive defensive posture. Or is it merely a very large weapon? I can't picture my weapon actually sheltering my wife, or my kids. Does it keep out the rain? I guess you could always say to the ones you are assumedley protecting,"You guys run across over there and draw his fire. I'll hide here and try to drop him." The young cheerleaders wondered how the new coach would like their megaphones made from hollow logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bleeds Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I guess you could always say to the ones you are assumedley protecting,"You guys run across over there and draw his fire. I'll hide here and try to drop him." The young cheerleaders wondered how the new coach would like their megaphones made from hollow logs. Assumedley? Brighton buffed and buffed, but that Marine spit shine he has read of since childhood once again refused to shine through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiggerTerror Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 If you were, you would also know that a baseball bat is not a legal carry weapon. Good thing no one with any sense is going to follow your "recommendation". How right you are. They probably do not have sporting goods or clothing stores in malls either. Talk about not being able to grasp the concept. "Bag of Bricks" just keeps coming to my geriatric mind when I read your comments. It's a shame that you think a shooter could not be stopped other than by someone with a firearm. And the result of your obvious training is that in the situation described it is fine and dandy to whip out a piece and engage the shooter. My trainer consistently advised us that unless it was blatantly clear that your use of deadly force was the only option to prevent the death of you or your immediate family, you would likely be charged, and be left to defend your actions in civil court at the tune of about 50K. Maybe you feel comfortable thinking that an untold number of people that you don't know and don't know how they will respond are packing legally. 1 in 10 with the wherewithall to be judicious in a crisis, 2 or 3 in 10 frightened to death, 6 or 7 undetermined. After all, one in those 10 culd be me, how does that make you sleep at night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiggerTerror Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Assumedley? Brighton buffed and buffed, but that Marine spit shine he has read of since childhood once again refused to shine through. DRAT!!! Brighton buffed and buffed, but that Marine spit shine he has read of since childhood once again refused to shine through. Assumedly his uncle had decieved him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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