High Coaching vs Daddy Ball/Select Ball Coaching

[clutchon18]

Clutchon18: By your response, I'm guessing you are a rec-ball parents or maybe a high school softball coach and apparently don't know whom I'm talking about. So here is a good start of teams for your to check your smarta## response. Everyone has signed, or will sign, virtually all their rosters and most of them played one or two events in the fall where they beat one or more JUCO teams. You really need to get out of East Texas and found out what softball is about in Houston, Dallas, Austin, etc.

 

Texas Impact Gold

Houston Power Gold

Texas Eclipse Gold

Texas Express Gold

Texas Storm (Durham)

Texas Aces Gold

Texas Peppers Gold/Tanel

Texas Mystixx

Magic Gold (Sessums)

MC Elite (Drude)

Texas Hawks (Dutton)

Katy Heat Gold

Texas Glory (Shelton)

Texas Glory (Lutz)

Texas Glory (Combs)

Texas Glory (Beard)

Ft. Worth Batbusters (Graves)

Texas Rapid Fire Gold

Texas Fusion Gold

Texas Travelers (Marks)

Texas Travelers (Wardlow)

Texas Elite (Bancroft)

Texas Elite (Bell)

Round Rock Blaze Gold

Austin Storm Gold

Texas Avengers (Segal)

 

 

Easy Tiger, I agree 100% with YOU....

Here is a link to a different thread where I voice my opinion...

 

 

http://www.smoaky.com/forum/index.php?show...94385&st=20

 

 

 

It's about 3/4 of the way down....

[sportsjunkie]

Seems like some hard feelings about Anderson Express Gold and Travelers ET Gold...did they cut your kid or did they not make the team...LOL. Give me a break. Both of these teams are doing what they should be doing and that is playing in major college exposure events [the one's mentioned in other posts] and getting their players seen and recruited. These coaches donate their time to better the athletes and to get them an education while playing the sport they love. Travelers ET Gold has had about a DOZEN athletes sign letters of intent in the last two years.....must be doing something right IMO! It really doesn't help the sport of fastpitch softball to go on these sites and downgrade other teams and specifically other coaches. This to me is a part of sportsmanship. Call the coaches personally if you have a problem with them or their program...or better yet...post your real name so we all know the "real" deal. I am sure you are not just a "random" person degrading two teams...LOL

 

My friend, you obviously have sour grapes.........

Absolutely no sour grapes, not downgrading anyone, just stating the simple fact that some of these teams are NOT Gold teams. Just happened to name those 2 specific teams because I have seen them both play. You seem to be the one on the defensive. Maybe I hit a nerve ! Look at the records of these teams in Gold competition. Been to both websites and also searched ASA . TT doesn't even have a gold victory posted that I could find. Contender or Pretender. As for signing girls . I'm all for whatever it takes . Although I see these travel coaches getting their faces in the paper with girls that they didn't have anything to do with their development. Just happened to pick up and play with them 1 or 2 times. By the way, I noticed you posted your "real" name ! lol .

[texhog]

That might be true for a few schools but many school boards and athletic directors don't have a clue

about fastpitch. If you take a vote of the East Texas schools I think you would be surprised to find

most schools have inexperienced coaches on the dirt.

 

I say about 90% of the Head Softball coaches in HS are coaching softball as their secondary coaching position. I think most of them want to win but really dont know enough about the game and its players. When a coach tries to continueously steal 2cd and 3rd on fastballs right the pipe against some of the best catchers in the area....? you just wavt to say, coach where have you been the last 10 years ? Wouldnt it be neat for a HS coach to ask a "daddyball" coach what he knew about an opposing player? Wouldnt it be neat to be at a tournament and look up and see your HS coach watching in July? I know there are a few exceptions but not many. What you do see at lots of tournaments are PITCHING coaches and HITTING coaches. They have PRIDE in what they have helped to mold. Not many HS coaches can say that.

[Heybuckethead]

. . . What you do see at lots of tournaments are PITCHING coaches and HITTING coaches. They have PRIDE in what they have helped to mold. Not many HS coaches can say that.

 

 

Amen! The biggest reason that many high school coaches don't know that they are not good coaches or that the local "daddyball" coach probably knows more about the game, his players, the opponents, etc. is because high school coaches don't go watch the game played at the highest level, watch their own players, watch their district opponents' players, etc.

 

Football coaches go to clinics every summer. It's my experience that very few high school softball coaches attend any coaching clinics. Wouldn't it be great to have a high school coach take a private hitting lesson with some of the better hitting instructors around and see the expressions on their faces when they discover that squashing the bug is wrong, back elbows are down not up, you don't swing down at the ball, etc. I really have never understood why a high school coach wouldn't call all the "daddyballers" together at the beginning of the season to see what they knew about the district opponents' pitchers, hitters, etc.

[coachc45]

Amen! The biggest reason that many high school coaches don't know that they are not good coaches or that the local "daddyball" coach probably knows more about the game, his players, the opponents, etc. is because high school coaches don't go watch the game played at the highest level, watch their own players, watch their district opponents' players, etc.

 

Football coaches go to clinics every summer. It's my experience that very few high school softball coaches attend any coaching clinics. Wouldn't it be great to have a high school coach take a private hitting lesson with some of the better hitting instructors around and see the expressions on their faces when they discover that squashing the bug is wrong, back elbows are down not up, you don't swing down at the ball, etc. I really have never understood why a high school coach wouldn't call all the "daddyballers" together at the beginning of the season to see what they knew about the district opponents' pitchers, hitters, etc.

 

Well I guess you got me!!! All daddy's know more. Like this year when I started the season trying to change the girls hitting from "Smooshing the bug" to a weight transfer and they all told me that was not how the "hitting" coach teaches it.

 

Face it, there are good and bad coaches in all of it. The good ones are continuously learning and the bad ones are resting on their laurels.

 

I based my opinion on high school coaches on the fact that the ones I know and am associated with are at clinics, they are meeting with college coaches, they are out trying to learn and improve. Not all are, but the ones I know are.

 

Go to the A&M hitting camp and see how many high school coaches are there, go to UT camp, or any other and count the coaches. They are there.

 

Like all things, coaching softball is changing. High School coaches are evolving. Hopefully one day all involved with softball will drop the rivalry between HS ball and Select ball and realize that we are all here for the girls and the sport.

 

[cdawg]

"High school coach-most decent high school programs have at least 2 teams (V and JV) and maybe a third team. Most also have 2 coaches and I have seen up to 4. Their big draw back is most only have one field and a time limit they can practice. So you have anywhere from 20 to 30 girls, one field, one cage and maybe 2 hours after school. Hard to cover all aspects of the game in that time frame. Also, high school coach cannot have anything to do with players after season is over. I think they can go watch them play but they cannot coach or assist in any fashion."

 

This is part of my commnet from early in this discussion. There is a clinic for softball coaches in the summer. Not sure how many attend but I know some do. Must be decent or they would not continue to have it. I saw the agenda on last years clinic and they did bring in some quality folks to talk.

 

Also keep in mind that HS coaches are limited by

 

a. How much time they can spend with kids. They are alloted a certain amount of practice time each week.

b. As I stated above, most have a lot of girls in their program. It is hard to give individual batting help to all players or to one that is struggling. Because of reason a. they cannot stay after practice and work with someone who is struggling.

 

Dads and travel ball coaches can spend as many hours as they want. If a HS player has been going to a hitting or pitching coach then the parents probably don't want the HS coach to try and change anything.

 

Granted I am not an expert in this area but your more successful high school teams are dominated by ones that have a high level of travel ball players AND a coach who is dedicated to the sport. Some examples are Splendora, Huntington, and Klien Oak. I am sure there are more. My thought is a good HS coach handles the strategy of the game; when to bunt, when to steal, what coverage to do, etc. Those type of issues, not mechanics. Well also, dealing with parents.

 

Also, keep in mind that most schools these days are really struggling financially. The days of hiring a coach to coach and teach PE are gone for the most part. I believe most coaches have their main sport and then are required to coach at least one or maybe 2 more. Then I believe most have a classes that they teach as well.

 

 

[Heybuckethead]

. . . I started the season trying to change the girls hitting from "Smooshing the bug" to a weight transfer and they all told me that was not how the "hitting" coach teaches it.

 

If you dont' know why your kids are right and you are wrong, then you need to stop coaching high school softball. When a "daddyballer" hears this kind of statement from a high school coach, it just proves their point.

 

I also call BS on your statement that high school coaches are attending the Texas A&M, UT, Baylor, Houston, or any other summer/winter camps. It's obvious that you have never attended either or you wouldn't make that statement. Tons of daddyballers with your players in attendance, however.

[noobster]

Alrighty then, I've read this entire post and have never wanted to scratch my eyes out or stabs ya'lls any more. I will agree with some of buckets posts, select ball is a great way to get looked at and be recruited by college coaches. That's a given, we all know that. There are good travel teams in the greater cities mainly cause of the number of kids able to play and the larger talent pools. And yes there are kids that travel a good ways to play on these teams. And personally I love that, and would want all my kids to do the same. But I have also seen great athletes been recruited by colleges, and them never have any select ball experience. And I've seen them walk on teams and beat out kids that have played travel ball all their life! Believe me if you'd like, but HS ball also helps them get into college, and the coach does have a hand in helping. Whether it be small or big.

 

Travel ball for some kids though is an aquired taste, maybe more for the daddy/mommy that pushes their kids to the point of burn out. But as we've all been screaming, you recuit those kids to play. By god you better be freakin good. Which in turn, makes you look amazing! If I had that talent pool I could do amazing things too! And again, to beat the already decomposed dead horse, us HS coaches work with what we have. We do go to clinics, camps, league/select games. And maybe I am part of the 10% of softball coaches that work hard to learn more, and keep up with the times. So in all actuality, we work harder to get our kids ready to play, and with less time to do it in. Yes there are bad apples in every bunch. Same could be said about select/daddy ball coaches.

 

And to agree with coachc45, this rift is slowly dying between the HS and select ball coaches. But this rift will never completely go away, unless you get off HS coaches backs and appreciate what they're trying to do and want to help them out. And helping out does not mean yelling in the stands to call this pitch or steal this runner or "i would have done this". It's working together to get the most out of the kids and be successful. And being successful doesn't always mean winning. I'm not to prideful, and I'd hope that my other fellow coaches would be the same way to want to get better and share information with other select ball coaches. One day that time will come, but it won't be here on good ol Smoaky! Again sorry so long winded! :thumbsup:

[Heybuckethead]

. . . But I have also seen great athletes been recruited by colleges, and them never have any select ball experience. . .

 

. . . It's working together to get the most out of the kids and be successful. And being successful doesn't always mean winning. . .

 

 

Good post. Except. . . and no offense, but name one Texas kid on any Div. I or II college team that walked on without ever having played travel softball. I hear this all the time from high school coaches who cling to the idea that high school ball matters, but I can't name any. It happens less and less every year even at the Div. I junior college level.

 

You've nailed the problem between high school coaches and travel ball coaches. The question really is how to solve this riff? Since the high school coach holds all the power as to whether she/he will talk openly with the high school parents (daddyballers), the high school coaches will decide whether anything changes . . . .

 

I believe that all high school parents really want is to be talked to openly and honestly like they are on the travel ball teams their daughters play for. My experience is the high school coaches in all sports usually start the season with a parent meeting that goes something like this: "I'm the coach; I don't want your opinions, scouting reports, etc., don't question my lineup or play time/position of your daughter; . . . now, before I decide on my lineup/starting 9, which one of you parents is on the booster club/school board/works for the school district . . ."

 

The thing I find most interesting is that there is almost no "coaching from the stands" among the best travel teams at the college showcase tournaments that I have attended each summer. Why is that?

[ceastwood08]

Good post. Except. . . and no offense, but name one Texas kid on any Div. I or II college team that walked on without ever having played travel softball. I hear this all the time from high school coaches who cling to the idea that high school ball matters, but I can't name any. It happens less and less every year even at the Div. I junior college level.

 

You've nailed the problem between high school coaches and travel ball coaches. The question really is how to solve this riff? Since the high school coach holds all the power as to whether she/he will talk openly with the high school parents (daddyballers), the high school coaches will decide whether anything changes . . . .

 

I believe that all high school parents really want is to be talked to openly and honestly like they are on the travel ball teams their daughters play for. My experience is the high school coaches in all sports usually start the season with a parent meeting that goes something like this: "I'm the coach; I don't want your opinions, scouting reports, etc., don't question my lineup or play time/position of your daughter; . . . now, before I decide on my lineup/starting 9, which one of you parents is on the booster club/school board/works for the school district . . ."

 

The thing I find most interesting is that there is almost no "coaching from the stands" among the best travel teams at the college showcase tournaments that I have attended each summer. Why is that?

 

Except. . . and no offense, but name one Texas kid on any Div. I or II college team that walked on without ever having played travel softball.

 

 

 

 

Name one that didn't play High School Ball.

[coachc45]

If you dont' know why your kids are right and you are wrong, then you need to stop coaching high school softball. When a "daddyballer" hears this kind of statement from a high school coach, it just proves their point.

 

I also call BS on your statement that high school coaches are attending the Texas A&M, UT, Baylor, Houston, or any other summer/winter camps. It's obvious that you have never attended either or you wouldn't make that statement. Tons of daddyballers with your players in attendance, however.

 

 

I know exactly why I changed them..... I also know the difference between baseball and softball hitting mechanics.

 

The reason I know how many coaches were at these camps is because I was at them. Down on the field with the players learning the why's and why-nots, the how to's, and the drills used to teach them. The daddy-ballers are in the stands.

 

 

[coachc45]

Now Bucket... I'm not disagree with you on anything, except that you are wrong about HS coaches not knowing or wanting what is best for the development of his/her players. High School coaches that I know are continuously striving to be better. The ones that aren't are the ones who are getting their butts handed to them despite the talent they have.

 

I have been to camps, clinics, and league/select games. It is how I've built my programs.

[noobster]

I believe that all high school parents really want is to be talked to openly and honestly like they are on the travel ball teams their daughters play for. My experience is the high school coaches in all sports usually start the season with a parent meeting that goes something like this: "I'm the coach; I don't want your opinions, scouting reports, etc., don't question my lineup or play time/position of your daughter; . . . now, before I decide on my lineup/starting 9, which one of you parents is on the booster club/school board/works for the school district . . ."

 

The thing I find most interesting is that there is almost no "coaching from the stands" among the best travel teams at the college showcase tournaments that I have attended each summer. Why is that?

 

Good call about the meetings, but it's all how you interpret them and how they're presented and they could be done differently by coaches I will agree. I like to have a slide show and a goal and funny pictures and give them something to drive toward.

 

But unlike select ball coaches, we have a job to do and many roles to play. It's hard bucking a system that says "play my child, or you'll be finding a new job". Seen it to many times to good coaches, that are forced to make a decision between moral rights, the team, and your job. Much easier for the select ball coaches and people in the stands.

 

And on a funny note, the reason why there's no "coaching from the stands", is cause us HS coaches respect the game and the coaches when they're out there. We know our role, and we know it's not our time to coach. And who needs us when you got the best team out there and the best coaching in the state! I know there's some HS that would want them if they could get a college degree, teaching field, certified, and apply! That's easier said than done I guess, and would make this sport more competiative and better in all the eys of the select ball coaches if all of them would! :thumbsup:

[GatorGrad84]

Why is there no coaching from the stands at select ball games?

 

Because a coach in select ball runs the team. He determines who is on the team, he determines what player he wants to ask to play a position and he determines what player he wants to pull in to bat clean-up. If you coach from the stands in a way that butts heads with the coach then your daughter may not be asked to travel to the next tournament. I would love to see how long a player would stay on a select team if a parent acted the same way at a select game as they do at a high school game, or talked to the coach the same. How many select coaches would put up with parents "coaching " their kids the exact opposite of what the coach wants? How many select coaches would put with parents that call them idiots?

 

There is no coaching from the stands at select games because the coach has no obligation to keep a kid on the team.

[Heybuckethead]

. . . I also know the difference between baseball and softball hitting mechanics.

 

LOL. . . you really need to stop . . . why don't you tell us daddyballers what the difference is between a baseball and softball swing. . . the fact that you will try proves our point that you aren't attending hitting clinics at Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, etc.

 

Noobster, you are the last honest high school coach . . . we all know your job depends on playing the booster club/school district employee/etc. parent's kid who is hitting .100 for district, but the fact that so many high school coaches deny it is what gets a lot of daddyballers, I think. They would prefer you just be honest and tell them that you aren't going to play the best nine players because you have other masters to serve.

 

Gator . . .you completely don't understand the masters that a travel ball coach serves. The difference is that the travel ball parent waits to talk to the coach the next day because the coach will actually talk to them. If you are travel ball coach who isn't talking openly and honest with his parents on a daily basis you aren't going to keep your team together for long. It's my experience that when the high school coach actually starts talking to his team's parents is when that coach starts building winning programs. All you high school coaches might try this approach the rest of the year and stick with it for a year or two. . .you might be surprised how much success you have.

[noobster]

Noobster, you are the last honest high school coach . . . we all know your job depends on playing the booster club/school district employee/etc. parent's kid who is hitting .100 for district, but the fact that so many high school coaches deny it is what gets a lot of daddyballers, I think. They would prefer you just be honest and tell them that you aren't going to play the best nine players because you have other masters to serve.

 

 

Hahaha.....thanks, but easy now, I still play the best 9 players on the field. Principals, superientendants, AD's kids or not. We do pop times, running times, agility drill times, so that when I don't play those named above kids and they wanna "throw their weight around", I simply pull out the stats along with the season averages and say, "This is not the production I need, until they improve where I need them, I'm going to play someone who can get the job done." And ofcourse the most common comback "Well if you play them more they'll get better." Then I just have to take a big breath. But you're right it's hard for us to do what's right when we've got our income/life/family/jobs to think about in the process. Just look at football coachs that don't get the job done. But I'm on another post about politics and play time!!! Another problem that goes with HS ball! Guess we're able to agree to disagree! ^_^

[coachc45]

Please forward the above quote to all of the high school coaches that you know . . . . and I've never question that you take it "serious."

 

As a coach, however, ask yourself this question: If you were a Divion I college coach that taught a particular style of hitting, slapping, pitching, fielding, etc. and you allowed your star freshman to play her final year of eligibility with an ASA Gold team, what would you do when you saw the ASA Gold coach trying to change your star player's swing, pitching grip, fielding technique, etc.

 

The problem is that too many high school coaches see themselves in this scenario as the Div. I coach when in reality they are the ASA Gold coach. The difference more often than not is the select team coach in this scenario knows his role, but too many high school coaches don't know theirs.

 

As a coach I ask myself what will best benefit my athletes during their high school careers and beyond. By going to hitting clinics and camps, it is my conclusion from talking to many DI coaches, that to best prepare kids for the next level then they need to change their hitting style to the weight transfer. It allows them better plate coverage and the ability to drive the outside pitch to the opposite field. So my role as their "coach" I have instituted drills that enable them to make this transition quicker by getting a head start on what most of the better colleges are doing. The quotes I get from the college coaches I talk to is this "Every kid we recruit can hit the inside pitch, so they try to pull everything. The first thing we have to do is re-teach them the fundamentals of hitting so that they can hit the outside pitch."

 

Personally, I take my role very seriously. Don't lump all HS coaches in to one group. Just like you don't want us HS coaches lumping ya'll into one group.

 

Let's work hand-in-hand with each other and see if we can't make our kids better and more prepared for the next level.

 

[Heybuckethead]

. . . it is my conclusion from talking to many DI coaches, that to best prepare kids for the next level then they need to change their hitting style to the weight transfer. . .

 

Name three Div. I programs that have coaches who teach a weight transfer (linear swing) rather than rotational hitting.

[sportsjunkie]

The difference is that the travel ball parent waits to talk to the coach the next day because the coach will actually talk to them. If you are travel ball coach who isn't talking openly and honest with his parents on a daily basis you aren't going to keep your team together for long. It's my experience that when the high school coach actually starts talking to his team's parents is when that coach starts building winning programs. All you high school coaches might try this approach the rest of the year and stick with it for a year or two. . .you might be surprised how much success you have.

 

 

 

Amen, Amen , Amen !!!!!

[StingRay]

WAIT A MINUTE! I thought all fastpitch softball play is little league baseball without the slap hitting and pitching under hand?.. I guess I was way off! If the kids don't hustle and don't make routine plays then they are destined to lose. Everything is great when you are winning, but when you are losing that;s when everyone wants to throw their knowledge and two cents in. :rolleyes:

[FBJ]

Name three Div. I programs that have coaches who teach a weight transfer (linear swing) rather than rotational hitting.

 

Can't name you three cause I've only been with the girls to A&M and UT. But neither of these schools teach squishing the bug. And A&M has a pretty decent batting average. Texas teaches something totally diferent Step, Shift turn push? don't remember all of it but, when Savony got there she had to start all over.

[Cbiskit]

The difference is that the travel ball parent waits to talk to the coach the next day because the coach will actually talk to them. If you are travel ball coach who isn't talking openly and honest with his parents on a daily basis you aren't going to keep your team together for long. It's my experience that when the high school coach actually starts talking to his team's parents is when that coach starts building winning programs. All you high school coaches might try this approach the rest of the year and stick with it for a year or two. . .you might be surprised how much success you have.

 

 

 

Amen, Amen , Amen !!!!!

 

We don't even have a parent meeting in HS...and I am thinking that is a good thing!

 

I learned my lesson last year when my daughter started as a freshman after playing competitive ball most of her life. HIGH SCHOOL BALL IS A DIFFERENT ANIMAL...and yes, sometimes it is a let down. But it's OK! HS ball sure beats sitting at home until Memorial weekend waiting for ASA qualifyers to begin!

 

We travel 3 hours every Sunday for a 4 hour practice. The talent swing to HS ball is sometimes hard to compensate for and the things my daughter accomplishes with her club team are much more difficult at home. But again, IT'S OK!

 

Our daughter firmly believes that she needs to play great summer and fall ball to get where she wants to be. But it is too exhausting and too much work to try and drag a HS team with you. Not every girl on her HS team shares her goals...that is what her club teammates are for!

 

My advice...enjoy the game of fastpitch during HS, enjoy the other girls and their parents, enjoy the fellowship...and enjoy your coach and be thankful for the coping skills your daughter is developing!

[FBJ]

This is the first year that all of my summer girls are in High School playing ball. So instead of trying to get my group together and traveling now, I am sitting back and watching them become assets to their respective High School programs. Honestly I am enjoying it right now. I don't agree with all of the calls their HS coaches make, but they probably don't agree with all of mine either. I'm just proud I can see all of those late weekend nights playing in other cities is now paying off. Let's see now, Go Lady Dogs, Lady Bobcats, Lady Eagles, Lady Bears, Lady Dragons, Lady Roughnecks, and Lady Wildcats. Gee I think thats all of them.

[Heybuckethead]

Can't name you three cause I've only been with the girls to A&M and UT. But neither of these schools teach squishing the bug. And A&M has a pretty decent batting average. Texas teaches something totally diferent Step, Shift turn push? don't remember all of it but, when Savony got there she had to start all over.

 

Texas and Texas A&M both teach a style of rotational hitting and not a linear weight transfer.

[thehammer]

Texas and Texas A&M both teach a style of rotational hitting and not a linear weight transfer.

 

who gives a crud. if a high school coach teaches linear weight tansfer, rotational hitting, it doesn't matter. maybe they believe in one more than the other. personally, i believe in distributional torque radial hitting. much better than the other two.