A cause for controversy in Oklahoma City

[jaykay08]

Sorry buddy, but nowhere on this thread have I acted like a child. Most likely you ARE a child(teen). I have given my opinion, and am entitled to it whether you like it or not. You started this b.s. by chiding me for someone else's quote. And yes, it does matter "who said what". I am not responsible for what Mantle or anybody else types. Do better.

 

[/quote/]

 

Whether or not I like your opinion has nothing to do with it. I agree that the pharmacist was wrong when he went back and shot the kid the second time, who was in fact lying on the ground, palms up. The reason I brought up the quote was when Mantle said something negative or anybody else who defends your argument says something negative, you say nothing....but when someone who opposes you says something along the same lines, you get offended. And yes, I am young. I graduated high school and am currently in college studying to become a nurse. I'm more than positive I'm not a child. It takes an adult to work the hours I do and still have time to do well in school. Nice try.

[Immortal13]

Whether or not I like your opinion has nothing to do with it. I agree that the pharmacist was wrong when he went back and shot the kid the second time, who was in fact lying on the ground, palms up. The reason I brought up the quote was when Mantle said something negative or anybody else who defends your argument says something negative, you say nothing....but when someone who opposes you says something along the same lines, you get offended. And yes, I am young. I graduated high school and am currently in college studying to become a nurse. I'm more than positive I'm not a child. It takes an adult to work the hours I do and still have time to do well in school. Nice try.

 

No, you've got it wrong again. I responded to those that were making personal attacks because they were losing their argument.

 

[jaykay08]

No, you've got it wrong again. I responded to those that were making personal attacks because they were losing their argument.

 

Like I said, just because someone doesn't see your side doesn't mean they are losing the argument. There will never be one opinion on this topic. Nobody lost because there are two sides that are both valid.

[TheShadowKnows]

Sorry. One more time I have to interrupt.

 

At the time the bad guy was executed, he was not robbing the store. He was lying down asleep in a more than likely vegetative state.

 

The human brain is large and capable of looking at a broad horizon. Try it.

 

 

What a difference 10 seconds can make. Men can go from armed robber with more then likely intent to kill to a poor helpless victim. While the victim with a broke back becomes scum of the earth death penalty to life in prison canidate. You are right my brain is small , but at least I am not looking into the solar eclipse of self-rightousness.

[DaveTV1]

Sorry. One more time I have to interrupt.

 

At the time the bad guy was executed, he was not robbing the store. He was lying down asleep in a more than likely vegetative state.

 

The human brain is large and capable of looking at a broad horizon. Try it.

 

 

I think I've watched this video about 10 times now. The kid that was shot in the head was not the hold up man. He didn't come into the pharmacy with a gun drawn. Everything that is on the video, happened in less than 60 seconds. Don't pay attention to the commercial, watch the time frame.

 

Five0pd310, when you have been confronted with a gun, what is your natural instinct ? Is it react first ? Or is it think first ?

 

This is an elderly gentleman.

 

I think we can all say we would approach this situation differently. Within 58 seconds, the pharmacist had quick choices to make. His adrenaline was pumping, his sense to protect the the people and business that he loved was flowing, his training in the military was flooding his mind, all within less than 58 seconds.

 

What would you do ? I'd pump him full of lead as well. The person that came in screaming and with a gun, escaped. I still can't find Mr. Ersland guilty. He was simply trying to protect what he thought to protect.

 

I don't have a problem with how David Hernandez Arroyo was killed, either. I hate to link that in, but I see the parallels. He unloaded a weapon at the Smith County Court House, over child support payments.

 

I don't think many of you are looking at the circumstances around this. This was an elderly veteran that was trying to protect his employees and his livelihood. These were two criminals that came in, attempting to find a quick fix to their drug habit, need for money. Not Guilty.

[Five0pd310]

Dave, if I had reacted as the store owner did, I would be tried, convicted and sentenced.....and rightfully so.

 

What a difference 10 seconds can make. Men can go from armed robber with more then likely intent to kill to a poor helpless victim. While the victim with a broke back becomes scum of the earth death penalty to life in prison canidate. You are right my brain is small , but at least I am not looking into the solar eclipse of self-rightousness.

You're exactly right. In the span of a few seconds, the bad guy went from robber to helpless victim. Then the pharmacist went from victim to criminal suspect (notice I didn't call him scum or death penalty candidate....nor has anyone else on this forum besides you). Also, I did not say you had a small brain. I said you had a big brain, you should just use it.

 

Your only tactic on this thread has been to take what others say, throw it away, and lie about what was actually said.

[BGR]

Dave, if I had reacted as the store owner did, I would be tried, convicted and sentenced.....and rightfully so.

 

If you or any other police officer walked over to a defenseless suspect and shot them five times, while on surveillance camera, there would be a furor from the general public and media alike to have you convicted and severely sentenced as soon as possible. Just as you said, "Rightfully so."

[DaveTV1]

If you or any other police officer walked over to a defenseless suspect and shot them five times, while on surveillance camera, there would be a furor from the general public and media alike to have you convicted and severely sentenced as soon as possible. Just as you said, "Rightfully so."

 

That is my point as well. This wasn't a trained police officer, this was a trained soldier that may have experienced warfare. They were once trained to shoot first and ask questions later. That is changing now. I just think how many vets and civilians would react. I stood behind Mr. Horn from Pasadena, TX, because he was afraid, scared, wanted the senseless crimes to stop. I'm rooting for Mr. Ersland in this case.

 

The drugs and crime need to come to a stop. Pandering to violent criminals needs to stop. If this would have happened 50 years ago, regardless of the race of the robber. Mr. Ersland would have been a town hero. If someone would have taken out Bonnie and Clyde 74 years ago, they would have been heroes. What happened to "Wanted Dead Or Alive" ? I have no empathy for these wangstas. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. The same applies to handguns. Matthew 26:52 is where the phrase comes from. Mr. Ersland hasn't in my opinion lived by the sword. He simply wanted to protect himself, his family, his co-workers, and his business.

 

Even if I didn't know about the case, I would find him not guilty. Untrained, threatened, elderly, vet, old school thinking, protecting his property and the lives of others. This guy is a town hero.

 

 

 

 

 

[chase.colston]

Untrained, threatened, elderly, vet, old school thinking, protecting his property and the lives of others. This guy is a town hero.

 

You don't think he protected his property and the lives of others enough when he shot the kid in the head the first time?

 

 

[Immortal13]

This wasn't a trained police officer, this was a trained soldier that may have experienced warfare.

 

Untrained, threatened, elderly, vet, old school thinking, protecting his property and the lives of others. This guy is a town hero.

 

So was he trained or untrained? I'm confused.

[Immortal13]

I stood behind Mr. Horn from Pasadena, TX, because he was afraid, scared, wanted the senseless crimes to stop.

 

Yeah, he was petrified.

 

(actual transcript)

911 OPERATOR: Mr. Horn, do not go outside the house.

 

JOE HORN, TEXAS RESIDENT: I'm sorry. This ain't right, buddy.

 

911 OPERATOR: You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think.

 

HORN: You want to make a bet? I'm going to kill them.

 

911 OPERATOR: OK? Stay in the house.

 

HORN: They're getting away.

 

(BOOM, BOOM, BOOM)

[DaveTV1]

So was he trained or untrained? I'm confused.

 

 

Trained to shoot first, then ask questions later. I have no sympathy for criminals.

[DaveTV1]

Yeah, he was petrified.

 

 

911 OPERATOR: Mr. Horn, do not go outside the house.

 

JOE HORN, TEXAS RESIDENT: I'm sorry. This ain't right, buddy.

 

911 OPERATOR: You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think.

 

HORN: You want to make a bet? I'm going to kill them.

 

911 OPERATOR: OK? Stay in the house.

 

HORN: They're getting away.

 

(BOOM, BOOM, BOOM)

 

What happened with him ? These two aren't vigilantes. They removed CRIMINALS from the streets of their towns. Justice was done. I have no sympathy for the perps.

[Immortal13]

What happened with him ? These two aren't vigilantes. They removed CRIMINALS from the streets of their towns. Justice was done. I have no sympathy for the perps.

 

He was no-billed by a grand jury, if that's what you're asking. Just proving a point that he wasn't scared and afraid as you claimed he was, Dave. Yes, there are two less criminals in the world now. No, Joe Horn didn't have the right to do what he did......but that's a whole 'nother thread. :thumbsup:

[BGR]

That is my point as well. This wasn't a trained police officer, this was a trained soldier that may have experienced warfare. They were once trained to shoot first and ask questions later. That is changing now. I just think how many vets and civilians would react. I stood behind Mr. Horn from Pasadena, TX, because he was afraid, scared, wanted the senseless crimes to stop. I'm rooting for Mr. Ersland in this case.

 

The drugs and crime need to come to a stop. Pandering to violent criminals needs to stop. If this would have happened 50 years ago, regardless of the race of the robber. Mr. Ersland would have been a town hero. If someone would have taken out Bonnie and Clyde 74 years ago, they would have been heroes. What happened to "Wanted Dead Or Alive" ? I have no empathy for these wangstas. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. The same applies to handguns. Matthew 26:52 is where the phrase comes from. Mr. Ersland hasn't in my opinion lived by the sword. He simply wanted to protect himself, his family, his co-workers, and his business.

 

Even if I didn't know about the case, I would find him not guilty. Untrained, threatened, elderly, vet, old school thinking, protecting his property and the lives of others. This guy is a town hero.

 

I feel there is too much pandering to criminals, period. In our justice system, our laws and our prison system. The only cable they should get in prison is the Disney channel, after having to watch that for 10 years these ex-cons will never break the law again.

 

Mr. Ersland was in fully in the right and defended himself and his employees........ until he shot a defenseless person five more times. Shooting and killing an unconscious nuetralized threat is not right, in my opinion. No matter what the circumstances that lead up to it. We cannot be judge, jury and executioner.

 

I hope Mr. Ersland doesn't get convicted but I do think he deserves to be charged and tried in a court of law.