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U.I.L. Letter to HS Coaches in Texas...


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#1 Smoaky

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 06:32 PM

I received this email from an AD/Football Coach and would like your feedback whether you're a high school athletic director, head coach/assistant/player/trainer (from any sport), and even parent or sponsors of the various events, leagues and camps that are held through each year.

Based on what I know, and reading this email, I have a few questions.

1) After reading the below email, how many programs have been in violation for doing what most programs have always done, (including being involved directly or indirectly in various camps, 7-on-7 tournaments and leagues, other leagues, and even the SAQ (Strength, Agility, Quickness) camps and training?

2) What is your overall reaction and how will it affect how you've been running your athletic department or business (again, in reference to Camps, Tournaments, Leagues, 7-on-7, SAQ)?

3) Why did this email come out now and this year? From talking to numerous coaches, they don't remember this ever being sent in the past.

You can also email me with additional feedback or questions you have as well.

David Smoak
smoaky@smoaky.com

-----

Here is the email sent to all high school coaches in Texas from the U.I.L..


As spring begins so does the majority of the non-school participation for our athletes which includes 7-on-7 football, tournaments and league play in U.I.L. team sports.

Over the last couple of months, we have had numerous calls from all corners of the state about non-school leagues and tournaments. Many people seem to be confused about what coaches and schools are allowed to do for non-school participation.

This information will outline what coaches and schools, including school booster clubs, are not allowed to do in regards to non-school participation for team sports — baseball, basketball, football, soccer, softball or volleyball.

In the past, we have received reports of schools using school transportation for 7-on-7 games and non-school events. On other occasions, schools allowed their school-owned player equipment (shoes, uniforms, etc.) to be used for non-school competition. We also had a number of schools hosting basketball tournaments this summer and fall outside of the season by contacting the school coach and inviting the varsity, JV, 9th, 8th, and 7th grade teams to participate. All of these situations violate UIL rules.

In those situations, we notified the schools involved of the possible violations to Section 1209 of the Constitution and Contest Rules (C&CR), but we still continued to get reports of violations.

Coaches, schools, parents and athletes seem confused on what is allowed since we continue to get calls on this issues of non-school teams. When I get a call, my response is always the same, “Is the school involved?” If the answer is yes, then the activity is no longer non-school.

The minute a school, school coach or school booster becomes involved in the non-school activity, other than supervision of the facility, it is a school-sponsored event.

In team sports, there is a start and stop date for the season. When the season is over, schools and school coaches shall not have any contact with students from their attendance zone for the sport that is out of season, other than the athletic period.

School booster clubs are an extension of the school and therefore would be in violation to use their funds to contribute to an athlete's expenses, transportation, etc. for a non-school activity.

School fund-raising activities by boosters or students should support the educational goals of the school and should not exploit students. Funds are to be used to support school activities. The use of those funds for non-school activities would violate UIL rules and the public trust through which funds are earned.

Another question we receive is, “What are school coaches allowed to do in non-school participation with students in grades 7-12 from their attendance zone?” According to Section 1209 of the C&CR, school coaches are allowed to assist a non-school entity in organizing, selecting players and coaches and may supervise (not during school time) school facilities for non-school LEAGUE (not tournaments) activities such as the summer, fall, spring and 7-on-7 leagues.

The non-school entities may contract to utilize school facilities for non-school competitions, camps or clinics. The school superintendent would need to give approval for non-school use of school facilities.

In the assisting of the non-school entity, the school coach cannot schedule PRACTICES or CONTESTS for students in grades 7-12 from their attendance zone. Also, if a coach has any coaching responsibility for the district they would not be allowed to coach or instruct 7-12th grade students from their school district attendance zone in the team sports.

• IT IS A VIOLATION for a school coach to require of a non-school coach which offense to use, which drills to use or which students should participate or not participate on a specific team.

• IT IS A VIOLATION for a school coach to require school players to participate on any non-school team or to play on a specific non-school team.

• IT IS A VIOLATION for a school coach to make arrangements with another coach to hold competitions or scrimmages for their teams.

• IT IS A VIOLATION for a school coach to handle the money for a non-school league or team involving students in grades 7-12 from their attendance zone.

It is the responsibility of the school coaches and personnel to make every effort to ensure that student-athletes realize that participation in non-school activities is strictly voluntary, never required and will not be used as prerequisite for trying out for a school team.

Non-school participation is usually associated with summer participation of our student-athletes but has become a year round endeavor. At the League, we believe the issues arising from non-participation is a teachable moment. We hope that now you have a better understanding of the role of schools in non-school participation.

#2 Straw

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 06:50 PM

I'm glad I'm at a private school!

#3 kramer

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 06:56 PM

These rules have been in place for some time. And for some time many coaches have been violating them and getting by with it. I mean they have been "bending" them and getting by with it.

#4 Smoaky

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 07:01 PM

QUOTE (kramer @ Apr 5 2010, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
These rules have been in place for some time. And for some time many coaches have been violating them and getting by with it. I mean they have been "bending" them and getting by with it.


kramer,

Thanks for the feedback. I completely understand what you've written---and I don't think there's any question "most everyone else is doing it too," response comes into play...but why now? What's changed? What will be the consequences (if anything) and will they enforce these rules for the big-boy, championship schools if they're caught as much as some program that's under the radar and hasn't won much?

How will it affect (if at all) the upcoming leagues, tournaments, events this spring...when as the email suggests is when most of these non-school sports and activities are held and run?

Smoaky

#5 Colmesneilfan1

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 07:17 PM

I had read in a recent issue of The Leaguer that there had been many questions coming in to the offices pertaining to these issues....I guess they decided to send out a reminder so they could address everyone's questions on the matter...It's a good thing, too, because we don't think about these things until they come up to bite us in the rear....

Mark 16: 16..."16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Acts 2: 38...."38And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 22: 16...."16And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

I Peter 3: 21...."21Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

The above Scripture is from the English Standard Version

#6 spacegolfer

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 08:00 PM

Looks like the UIL is wanting to reel in some of the ones that are bumping or crossing the line a little. I'm all for the players getting all the practice they can in the off-season. As long as its by the rules for everyone.

Mark 11:23 New King James Version (NKJV)
23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.


"A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him."
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#7 ScalpemSooners

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 08:11 PM

I understand the limits that school coaches have as far as off-season activities go in each sport, but what I don't understand is why the athletic boosters are not allowed to be involved.

Aren't the parents the ones funding these things anyway? Shouldn't they have a say in how their money is being spent?

For example:
Most people in rural communities and the inner-city districts simply don't make as much money as those families who live in larger or more suburban areas. If the athletic boosters (which are mostly parents) want to donate some of their funds to help a needy individual participate in events such as 7-on-7 or another not-required athletic event to better themselves during the offseason that wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it, where is the problem with that? These are tough economic times; if a student has proven that they are outstanding both on and off the field and have the inner drive to become a better athlete, why must they be stopped if their parents simply don't have the money?

#8 CoachTobinReid

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 07:35 AM

QUOTE (Smoaky @ Apr 5 2010, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
kramer,

Thanks for the feedback. I completely understand what you've written---and I don't think there's any question "most everyone else is doing it too," response comes into play...but why now? What's changed? What will be the consequences (if anything) and will they enforce these rules for the big-boy, championship schools if they're caught as much as some program that's under the radar and hasn't won much?

How will it affect (if at all) the upcoming leagues, tournaments, events this spring...when as the email suggests is when most of these non-school sports and activities are held and run?

Smoaky


They have had alot of leadership changes over the last two years in the UIL. I have gotten these type of e-mails for the last two years. I have not gotten this one on these type of rules. But I have gotten others before. They sent one out this year just before the end of the district basketball season as well.

I believe it is a good thing. I wish they would send something out more often to help us all remember what we must continue to follow, rules wise.
Thank you,

Coach Tobin L. Reid
Brownsboro HS


"A good coach improves your game. A great coach improves your life."

#9 UniversalOffseason

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 07:54 AM

When I got this email last week I really didnt put much thought into it but now that I read it again it really kinda bugs me. This is another case of the UIL missing the forest for the trees. They get so wrapped up on little nit-picky rules that they forget they are there to help kids. What harm is there in a couple of kids wearing their school cleats to a 7 on 7 tourny? I have kids on my team that really cant afford good shoes to wear and if I can do something to make them feel a little less self-conscience about it I should be able to. And if I give a kids a ride somewhere, what's so bad about that?

This may shock the UIL but most kids like to do sports stuff in the summer, we dont have to make it mandatory. Most kids want to do these summer camps and teams.

Now if they want to do away with the booster clubs, Im all for it.

#10 coachlangley

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 08:40 AM

Will definitely affect schools in rural areas, coaches have been organizing summer leagues for years just so they have it, now coaches are not even supposed to run the clock at a summer league game. This will cause major problems at small schools thoughout the state, the big schools with AAU opportunities will keep right on going but now small school coaches have to pray that some parent (that is not in the booster club ?) wants to organize and run a summer league on their own. HELP ME FIGURE THIS OUT FOLKS

#11 Tiger1995

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 08:45 AM

A lot of times in athletics you will see a program far exceed it's peers. In doing so those who are less talented will often stop looking at themself and their own program and start to look for the dirty in others. It is in human nature often not see personal faults and look for others. It appears to that there are some most likely less talented coaches and staffs looking to just their own failures and may have decided to stir a pot. In doing it seems as if UIL which I believe is aware of most things going on in and around the schools maybe is trying to send warning that there could soon be more to come and would not want to have to repremand anyone so fair warning was issued in order so save face for everyone. I think UIL was simply making a statement to please and reasure at the same time that they do not want to harm any program but more action may be coming so each program has the fair oppertunity to clean up and straighten up before further investigations continue.


I have no beef with the rules. Besides as a youth coach and sponcer I go out and raise money every year to cover many individual less fortune kids. If I can do it then anyone can. Sometimes parents should take the responcibility to do the same. There are so many people out there that are willing to do the same as I that if a coach or school gets wrapped up in believing they are responcible to it is their own fault. I mean you don't see any school bringing a bus to pick up my Tee-Ballers. We simply pack everyone in personal rides and head out. Why would the schools think that they should risk anything when the fact is people found ways years before hitting the high school and Jr high scene?
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#12 Tiger1995

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 08:54 AM

QUOTE (coachlangley @ Apr 6 2010, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Will definitely affect schools in rural areas, coaches have been organizing summer leagues for years just so they have it, now coaches are not even supposed to run the clock at a summer league game. This will cause major problems at small schools thoughout the state, the big schools with AAU opportunities will keep right on going but now small school coaches have to pray that some parent (that is not in the booster club ?) wants to organize and run a summer league on their own. HELP ME FIGURE THIS OUT FOLKS



Coach as bad as these super dads drive you crazy.lol..me...there will always be some there to push their child through, donate thier time and help in many ways. Most often as long as there is some kind of youth program started it will easily continue through parents who want to see their own kids succeed and many like me who went on to different fields of work but still had the passion to coach. I believe that communities such as ours and many around us will just keep right on clicking.
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#13 coachlangley

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 09:32 AM

You have'nt been the places I have, there are some good folks for sure , but someone to organize, run and do everything that needs to be done to run summer league teams, much less the whole league are very few. Very few would even know how, unless they had been in the coaching ranks at some time, now dont get me wrong, I have seen very and I mean very few coaches blatantly breaking these rules, but 99% of small town coaches were involved in organizing their teams. Either by figuring schedules, rounding up money finding rides securing sponsors etc, these are all illegal according to that letter, not only for the coaches but booster club members as well.

#14 Tiger1995

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 09:54 AM

QUOTE (coachlangley @ Apr 6 2010, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You have'nt been the places I have, there are some good folks for sure , but someone to organize, run and do everything that needs to be done to run summer league teams, much less the whole league are very few. Very few would even know how, unless they had been in the coaching ranks at some time, now dont get me wrong, I have seen very and I mean very few coaches blatantly breaking these rules, but 99% of small town coaches were involved in organizing their teams. Either by figuring schedules, rounding up money finding rides securing sponsors etc, these are all illegal according to that letter, not only for the coaches but booster club members as well.



I have to disagree at least from my stand point. I have seen the leagues all over the country and that is literal so yes it can continue and yes there are plenty of guys like me out there that can oragnize,sceme,coach and raise funds and do it for nothing more than to see my kid have a place to play with his peers and get better as time goes own.
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#15 coachlangley

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 11:30 AM

well come on down the road here and hook me up then, I don't have clue, hmmm been doin this 20 yrs, will be glad to have you show some of your neighbors how to do all that since UIL says I can't anymore.

#16 CoachTobinReid

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:09 PM

QUOTE (Tiger1995 @ Apr 6 2010, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have to disagree at least from my stand point. I have seen the leagues all over the country and that is literal so yes it can continue and yes there are plenty of guys like me out there that can oragnize,sceme,coach and raise funds and do it for nothing more than to see my kid have a place to play with his peers and get better as time goes own.



Come to Big Sandy and help!!! notworthy.gif
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Brownsboro HS


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#17 Smoaky

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:12 PM

Here are some samples of the feedback and comments I received by email from several East Texas coaches from AD's, to various sports, head coaches and assistants.

Smoaky



-----

David there are a lot of reasons why this e-mail was released. There are a lot of schools that are not following the rules that the UIL has set forth. I believe some schools that try to follow the rules are fed up with these schools that do not abide by these rules. I know for a fact that certain coaches in East Texas are involved with summer league and fall league programs in which 7th and 8th graders in their attendance zone are participating. I know another coach that was giving private lessons to an incoming freshman and getting paid for it. There are many schools that take advantage of the UIL not monitoring these rules as close as they should. I think that some schools are feed up with the people that do not follow the rules and have spoken.

-----

David, I would like it broken down in an email of what you can DO, not just what all you can’t do specifically.

------

David, The "bible' for all UIL academics and athletics can be purchased through the UIL. This bible is the Constitution and Contest Rules. If after reading or researching the book, if you are still not sure, you can call the UIL, 512-471-5883, and discus your situation with a Director. In 35 years of coaching I have always feared the possibility of making a the wrong decision in regards to TEA and UIL rules, I call them often.

It is the Athletic Directors responsibility to know all the rules and regulations. Do I know and understand all the rules and regulation....NO!, but I do know how to find the correct answer.

The biggest mistake coaches or schools make is to assume you understand all the rules. The biggest rule being broken today is 7-on-7. Go watch, not the game but the QB looking into the stands getting signs and signals from one of his school coaches in the stands.

A very large percentage of schools and coaches follow the rules...but unfortunately some don't.

-----
David,

I don't have a problem with the email. I feel that everyone needs to follow the rules. It appears that several schools are unclear on different rule interpretations. Coaches and Athletic directors can go online to www.uil.utexas.edu/index.html for further information.


-----

Mr. Smoak,

I will offer a few thoughts. We have tried hard to follow the rules here. I do think there are some obscure rules that may have been in uintentional violation such as the school coach actually setting up the winter league of fall league schedule. We have corrected this and asked the volunteer coach to set the schedule this summer. Looks to me like UIL will be cracking down on some things this summer. My thought is that it is probably booster clubs spending money of fitting the bill for 7 on 7 or state tournament or uniforms. I am sure this has been a rule that has been broken numerous places without the coaches knowing. Those leagues with independent coaches take on a mind of their own. That is one of the reasons we do not participate.

My question would be, and perhaps I am not reading it right, but how many of the 7 on 7 coaches are actually not on the booster club? If it is an involved parent, those are usually on the club? If I am reading it right, no booster club member is suppose to coach it?? Once again, I may be missing the boat here as I have not kept up with 7 on 7 since taking this job. I may be totally wrong on all of this.

-----

David,

These are the rules and have always been the rules. Coaches cannot coach or make decisions about workouts or which players are on which teams.
Coaches can supervise and attend games and practices.. The summer strength and agility camps are just that. They must be open to everyone in your attendance zone 7-12 .

The S&A 6 week camp cannot be gender or sport specific. The coaches can direct and chart the S&A camp. There are specific guidelines for this exception to the summer rule.

It will not change one thing we do in regards to our 7 on 7 and 6 weeks summer camp.

Why did the UIL send this out…? The UIL is firing a warning shot to everyone. I think it is to announce they will be watching very closely this summer and if they continue to receive

Tips that people are doing things …like coaching a summer basketball team or 7 on 7 team or making the summer strength training a football or basketball only S&A camp; or if people are using school equipment for their 7 on 7 or basketball, volleyball etc players, the UIL will investigate. I fully expect to see the UIL out and about this summer.

Again these have always been the rules and for the most part people have done what they are allowed to do.

People get sucked in by using school recourses to play. Our 7 on 7 director once got a check for our 7 on 7 tournament from a school district. I called the coach and told him he was in violation of UIL rules. He told me nobody cared from his particular area. Money raised for in-school activities cannot be used for non-school activities. That includes booster money, transportation, fees, food etc..

Coaches cannot coach. If you stay with-in those two or three things, then you are OK . The problem is you and your coaching staff must know the rules. Believe me pleading ignorance will not be accepted by the UIL. It is the responsibility of every coach to know and understand the rules. Every coach in Texas has taken the training and has signed a piece of paper declaring himself responsible for knowing all of the rules and regulations.

Why? I think the 7 on 7 and basketball leagues will be under heavy scrutiny this summer. Everyone needs to remember that just because a private school can do certain things does not mean we in the public arena can do the same. They operate under a completely different guideline. Do not get drawn in to a rules violation just because a private sector school is doing things and your school is involved with them in tournaments or leagues.

Coaches can coach a team from their attendance zone as long as the kids participating are incoming 5th and 6th graders. They cannot coach anyone from their attendance zone in grades 7-12 with the exception of the six week S& A camps. There are some exceptions for baseball, and a couple of other sports. They put number limits on them i.e no more than three or no more than 5 etc.

Again, if we continue the way we have in the past, then we will be OK. (Note: Coaches can actually referee a contest as long as they do not coach anyone).

I am not concerned one bit. We do not use anything that belongs to the school district. The kids or the team sponsor rents or pays for the uniform, shoes, shorts and the kids are responsible for their entry fees etc. I really think some of these self proclaimed elite leagues and Nike sponsored teams are in heavy violation. Even some of the summer track teams are doing things that cannot be done by a school sponsored team. If the UIL can determine some of your players are playing on an elite team and you (the coach) had something to do with waiving the fees, or you players are accepting things for playing then these kids could have an eligibility problem with the UIL. It goes on and on. I just think the UIL has had enough and are going to try and get a few of these programs this summer. Just my opinion.



#18 thesauce10

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:25 PM

I agree with langley, ive been at 3 schools 2a and lower, and the 7 on 7 football and summer bball camps were usually organized by that sports head coach--they used school shoes and sometimes we the coaches drove them, we werent calling plays or coaching, but sometimes in little towns coaches help out---i dont see the problem with that

#19 coachlangley

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:32 PM

UT Tyler has a quality league for high school basketball in the Tyler area, my problem is according to the letter, I can't set up team meeting for my coach, I can't meet with kids to collect money for the Coach, I can't even tell the coach what I want him to do, and I could'nt even give a kid a ride if he was walking to the game and I drove by him on the road. All I am saying is the UIL's attempt to go after the AAU problems in the big city is going to affect the rural coaches more than most realize, people that are not trying to do anything but keep their kids going.

#20 CoachTobinReid

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (coachlangley @ Apr 6 2010, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
UT Tyler has a quality league for high school basketball in the Tyler area, my problem is according to the letter, I can't set up team meeting for my coach, I can't meet with kids to collect money for the Coach, I can't even tell the coach what I want him to do, and I could'nt even give a kid a ride if he was walking to the game and I drove by him on the road. All I am saying is the UIL's attempt to go after the AAU problems in the big city is going to affect the rural coaches more.



I totally agree with you. thumbsup.gif

What are we going to do now?
Thank you,

Coach Tobin L. Reid
Brownsboro HS


"A good coach improves your game. A great coach improves your life."




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