Jump to content



Photo

Texas landowner fights Keystone pipeline through her farm


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

#1 harrier

harrier

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,474 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:"It's not about Left vs. Right... It's about Liberty vs. Oppression"-Ben Swann

Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:39 PM

Does Keystone mean lower gasoline prices?

“Look, to have a private company come in and have the right to take your land so that they can make money moving a foreign product across the United States, across Texas to be sold to other foreign countries, is just unbelievable,” she said. “This has nothing to do with bringing oil to the U.S. to ease our dependence on Middle Eastern oil.”

+ + + +
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers:for they shall be called the children of God.
+ + + +
--------------------------

"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism." -Dr. Ron Paul

“Wasting a vote is sometimes voting for somebody that you don't really believe in."
-Ron Paul

----------

 

The Road To Serfdom

 

F.A. Hayek

 

To the socialists of all parties.

-----------

 

"Planning" is the grand panacea of our age. But unfortunately its meaning is highly ambiguous. In popular discussion it stands for almost any policy which it is wished to present as desirable...When the average citizen, be he Nazi or Communist or Summer School Liberal, warms to the statement that "What the world needs is planning," what he really feels is that the world needs that which is satisfactory.
Lionel Robbins, Economic Planning and Economic Order (London:Macmillan, 1937), p. 3.

 


#2 parentofredheads

parentofredheads

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,906 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:TEXAS

Posted 25 April 2012 - 06:35 AM

First, this article isn't about price of gas if Keystone goes or not...However, the landowners are right. Interesting to note that Enbridge was noted... they actually have a ROW on our property. Nothing I can do about it, once a previous landowner signed those rights over.

Keystone just needs to move their pipeline - period. If folks wanna let 'em on their property and they're paid a reasonable price, fine; but if folks don't want it, shouldn't happen.

It'll be pushed, though, and if the Texas legislature doesn't do something about it, then it won't happen. Problem is, the coast has already built these plants to process that oil... and you get into the "hundreds of jobs will be lost if..." blah, blah, blah...then Texas' Congress will never hear the end of it... "they cost us jobs" blah, blah, blah...still doesn't make it right.

Personally, I don't see that the landowners are on the right track in what they're wanting to bring before the jury as to what their land is valued at if it's split up in 5 or 10 acre tracts to be sold to individuals... that is going to be super, SUPER iffey!

#3 Paradox

Paradox

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,250 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Buffalo Shank, Tx.

Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:04 AM

Keystone just needs to move their pipeline - period. If folks wanna let 'em on their property and they're paid a reasonable price, fine; but if folks don't want it, shouldn't happen.



A guy came by my dad's place several years ago scouting for coal. My dad told him that he wasn't interested in having to uproot and move.

The guy indicated that he understood, then said, "Sir, when you see that check they'll give you for your place, you'll gladly move - with a smile on your face."






#4 harrier

harrier

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,474 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:"It's not about Left vs. Right... It's about Liberty vs. Oppression"-Ben Swann

Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:19 AM

First, this article isn't about price of gas if Keystone goes or not...However, the landowners are right. Interesting to note that Enbridge was noted... they actually have a ROW on our property. Nothing I can do about it, once a previous landowner signed those rights over.

No, it's not about the price of gasoline yet many people complained the holdups in the extension of the pipeline had caused gasoline to spike again. You have an existing pipeline. The article is not about existing pipelines. lol Correct, nothing you could do now with a done deal when you acquired your property.

Keystone just needs to move their pipeline - period. If folks wanna let 'em on their property and they're paid a reasonable price, fine; but if folks don't want it, shouldn't happen.

Those with land have a choice to sign a deal or not but its the arrogance of those that want the land for their own purposes that has escalated. Remember Governor Rick Perry wanted to acquire some 450,000 acres of land in East Texas in order to construct his Trans Texas Corridor 69. This Land Is Your Land is one of the United States' most famous folk songs. Evidently those like Rick Perry and Jerry Jones have the wrong idea about whose land is whose. BTW, corridor 69 has not disappeared from the minds of those that subscribe to "free trade" agreements such as NAFTA. Landowners would be wise to not let this slip their minds as they do when voting for politicians forgetting the past performance of those politicians.


It'll be pushed, though, and if the Texas legislature doesn't do something about it, then it won't happen. Problem is, the coast has already built these plants to process that oil... and you get into the "hundreds of jobs will be lost if..." blah, blah, blah...then Texas' Congress will never hear the end of it... "they cost us jobs" blah, blah, blah...still doesn't make it right.

Too bad. Don't count the chicks before they hatch. Just more evidence of arrogance within the corporatocracy. I recall last spring reading about China's investment in a refinery in Corpus designed for tar sands. And the question, who in their right mind thinks this product from Canada is meant to lessen the U.S. dependence on foreign oil?

Personally, I don't see that the landowners are on the right track in what they're wanting to bring before the jury as to what their land is valued at if it's split up in 5 or 10 acre tracts to be sold to individuals... that is going to be super, SUPER iffey!

The point is, the landowner does not want the pipeline on her property.


+ + + +
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers:for they shall be called the children of God.
+ + + +
--------------------------

"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism." -Dr. Ron Paul

“Wasting a vote is sometimes voting for somebody that you don't really believe in."
-Ron Paul

----------

 

The Road To Serfdom

 

F.A. Hayek

 

To the socialists of all parties.

-----------

 

"Planning" is the grand panacea of our age. But unfortunately its meaning is highly ambiguous. In popular discussion it stands for almost any policy which it is wished to present as desirable...When the average citizen, be he Nazi or Communist or Summer School Liberal, warms to the statement that "What the world needs is planning," what he really feels is that the world needs that which is satisfactory.
Lionel Robbins, Economic Planning and Economic Order (London:Macmillan, 1937), p. 3.

 


#5 harrier

harrier

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,474 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:"It's not about Left vs. Right... It's about Liberty vs. Oppression"-Ben Swann

Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:36 AM

A guy came by my dad's place several years ago scouting for coal. My dad told him that he wasn't interested in having to uproot and move.

The guy indicated that he understood, then said, "Sir, when you see that check they'll give you for your place, you'll gladly move - with a smile on your face."




I read many accounts of those displaced by Jerry Jone's Kingdome. At the time the housing bubble of illusory pricing made it difficult for those displaced to purchase another home. Each and every one of those displaced should have been given adequate funding from the greedy Jones to have purchased $400,000 homes in Southlake. Just imagine the looks on the elitists in that area as white trash and others moved in on them. Freaking greedy , manipulative corporatocracy. The Jones deal could have made better for those displaced.

+ + + +
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers:for they shall be called the children of God.
+ + + +
--------------------------

"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism." -Dr. Ron Paul

“Wasting a vote is sometimes voting for somebody that you don't really believe in."
-Ron Paul

----------

 

The Road To Serfdom

 

F.A. Hayek

 

To the socialists of all parties.

-----------

 

"Planning" is the grand panacea of our age. But unfortunately its meaning is highly ambiguous. In popular discussion it stands for almost any policy which it is wished to present as desirable...When the average citizen, be he Nazi or Communist or Summer School Liberal, warms to the statement that "What the world needs is planning," what he really feels is that the world needs that which is satisfactory.
Lionel Robbins, Economic Planning and Economic Order (London:Macmillan, 1937), p. 3.

 


#6 parentofredheads

parentofredheads

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,906 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:TEXAS

Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

Yes, I know it's not about existing pipelines... DUH... I just commented that I have one of Enbridge's on our property....

I'd say the pipeline company needs to go around 'em...I've already had enough run-ins with these pipeline companies coming onto our property, opening gates and going through it without even stopping and asking or letting me know anything...not to mention, destroying spring fed creeks and flooding the whole bottom....that got stopped pretty quick!

And I don't agree that the price of gas is because we haven't allowed the Keystone pipeline.... that's a bunch of bahooey.

#7 Wild74

Wild74

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,287 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Waskom, Texas

Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:47 PM

I work for a pipeline company. We are unregulated so we can make as much profits as possible we also have to pay the landowner a fair price for going across his property and if we do go across his or her property we have to lay the pipeline where they want. If the property owner says we cannot go across his property then we can't. We are not allowed to condemned because we are unregulated. On the other hand the major pipelines are regulated by the FERC also their profits are regulated since they are considered regulated on their profits they can build a pipeline across your property or right through your living room. They will pay you a fair price to go through your living room and will hire a contractor to move your furniture around. If you don't want them to go through your property or living room FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD...LOL that is the reason given, unregulate them and let them make as much money as possible. Enbridge is regulated so they can condemn. I didn't make the rules but I live by them everyday.Also in Texas if you don't want the oil company's on your property don't lease your property. If you buy property that is already leased and don't own the mineral rights I would suggest not buying that property because you ain't going to be happy. You will be entitled to damages though.... :P

   He once said wisely: "Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains. Winston Churchill


#8 DLine06

DLine06

    The 83rd Black Belt of Professor Klay Pittman

  • Moderators
  • 6,048 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tx Tech
  • Interests:Born on 1/25/88.

    Former Boxer and current martial artist in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

Posted 25 April 2012 - 05:03 PM

I work for a pipeline company. We are unregulated so we can make as much profits as possible we also have to pay the landowner a fair price for going across his property and if we do go across his or her property we have to lay the pipeline where they want. If the property owner says we cannot go across his property then we can't. We are not allowed to condemned because we are unregulated. On the other hand the major pipelines are regulated by the FERC also their profits are regulated since they are considered regulated on their profits they can build a pipeline across your property or right through your living room. They will pay you a fair price to go through your living room and will hire a contractor to move your furniture around. If you don't want them to go through your property or living room FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD...LOL that is the reason given, unregulate them and let them make as much money as possible. Enbridge is regulated so they can condemn. I didn't make the rules but I live by them everyday.Also in Texas if you don't want the oil company's on your property don't lease your property. If you buy property that is already leased and don't own the mineral rights I would suggest not buying that property because you ain't going to be happy. You will be entitled to damages though.... :P


Wild my original degree plan was to go into Petroleum engineering. I am curious to know who handles those negotiations. I'm willing to bet a communication studies degree could play a role.
"Be a good leader! If that's not your style, be a wise follower." (Klay Pittman).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#9 Wild74

Wild74

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,287 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Waskom, Texas

Posted 25 April 2012 - 05:11 PM

Wild my original degree plan was to go into Petroleum engineering. I am curious to know who handles those negotiations. I'm willing to bet a communication studies degree could play a role.


We have contract land people. They go in a negotiate with the landowner. Of course the over payed lawyers get involve. Good communication skills is a must.

   He once said wisely: "Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains. Winston Churchill


#10 Paradox

Paradox

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,250 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Buffalo Shank, Tx.

Posted 25 April 2012 - 05:52 PM

I read many accounts of those displaced by Jerry Jone's Kingdome. At the time the housing bubble of illusory pricing made it difficult for those displaced to purchase another home. Each and every one of those displaced should have been given adequate funding from the greedy Jones to have purchased $400,000 homes in Southlake. Just imagine the looks on the elitists in that area as white trash and others moved in on them. Freaking greedy , manipulative corporatocracy. The Jones deal could have made better for those displaced.



Without eminent domain, the interstate highway system wouldn't exist today. We'd still be piddling down two lane blacktops coast to coast.

And with eminent domain, there's always some 99 year old widow who doesn't want to move herself or her 27 cats.




#11 harrier

harrier

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,474 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:"It's not about Left vs. Right... It's about Liberty vs. Oppression"-Ben Swann

Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:27 PM

^ Without eminent domain Jerry Jones may have had to purchase some land in north Tarrant County or Denton County to build his Kingdome and not at the expense of Arlington taxpayers and existing homeowners. With the go ahead to expand the I-35W tollway in Tarrant County the Kingdome may have been better located near Texas Motor Speedway. There are existing hotels along the Alliance Corridor and others waiting to be built I can imagine. You can bet any expansion of existing I-30 through Arlington will occur on the north side of that interstate uprooting yet more existing homes.

+ + + +
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers:for they shall be called the children of God.
+ + + +
--------------------------

"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism." -Dr. Ron Paul

“Wasting a vote is sometimes voting for somebody that you don't really believe in."
-Ron Paul

----------

 

The Road To Serfdom

 

F.A. Hayek

 

To the socialists of all parties.

-----------

 

"Planning" is the grand panacea of our age. But unfortunately its meaning is highly ambiguous. In popular discussion it stands for almost any policy which it is wished to present as desirable...When the average citizen, be he Nazi or Communist or Summer School Liberal, warms to the statement that "What the world needs is planning," what he really feels is that the world needs that which is satisfactory.
Lionel Robbins, Economic Planning and Economic Order (London:Macmillan, 1937), p. 3.

 


#12 harrier

harrier

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,474 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:"It's not about Left vs. Right... It's about Liberty vs. Oppression"-Ben Swann

Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:40 PM

I work for a pipeline company. We are unregulated so we can make as much profits as possible we also have to pay the landowner a fair price for going across his property and if we do go across his or her property we have to lay the pipeline where they want. If the property owner says we cannot go across his property then we can't. We are not allowed to condemned because we are unregulated. On the other hand the major pipelines are regulated by the FERC also their profits are regulated since they are considered regulated on their profits they can build a pipeline across your property or right through your living room. They will pay you a fair price to go through your living room and will hire a contractor to move your furniture around. If you don't want them to go through your property or living room FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD...LOL that is the reason given, unregulate them and let them make as much money as possible. Enbridge is regulated so they can condemn. I didn't make the rules but I live by them everyday.Also in Texas if you don't want the oil company's on your property don't lease your property. If you buy property that is already leased and don't own the mineral rights I would suggest not buying that property because you ain't going to be happy. You will be entitled to damages though.... :P


I'm skeptical of anyone that claims to pay a "fair" price and especially a "fair" price in condemnation proceedings. What is a "fair" price exactly?

+ + + +
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers:for they shall be called the children of God.
+ + + +
--------------------------

"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism." -Dr. Ron Paul

“Wasting a vote is sometimes voting for somebody that you don't really believe in."
-Ron Paul

----------

 

The Road To Serfdom

 

F.A. Hayek

 

To the socialists of all parties.

-----------

 

"Planning" is the grand panacea of our age. But unfortunately its meaning is highly ambiguous. In popular discussion it stands for almost any policy which it is wished to present as desirable...When the average citizen, be he Nazi or Communist or Summer School Liberal, warms to the statement that "What the world needs is planning," what he really feels is that the world needs that which is satisfactory.
Lionel Robbins, Economic Planning and Economic Order (London:Macmillan, 1937), p. 3.

 


#13 Colmesneilfan1

Colmesneilfan1

    Smoakhouse Libertarian

  • Administrators
  • 32,540 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colmesneil, Texas

Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:19 AM

A guy came by my dad's place several years ago scouting for coal. My dad told him that he wasn't interested in having to uproot and move.

The guy indicated that he understood, then said, "Sir, when you see that check they'll give you for your place, you'll gladly move - with a smile on your face."




I'm so glad we own the mineral rights on all of our property....lol....

Mark 16: 16..."16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Acts 2: 38...."38And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 22: 16...."16And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

I Peter 3: 21...."21Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

The above Scripture is from the English Standard Version

#14 parentofredheads

parentofredheads

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,906 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:TEXAS

Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:23 AM

I'm so glad we own the mineral rights on all of our property....lol....

We own 50% of the minerals, but the pipeline was here before...funny, though, I don't ever remember reading any of that....which shows you've got to read all the FINE PRINT!

#15 Colmesneilfan1

Colmesneilfan1

    Smoakhouse Libertarian

  • Administrators
  • 32,540 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colmesneil, Texas

Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:36 AM

We own 50% of the minerals, but the pipeline was here before...funny, though, I don't ever remember reading any of that....which shows you've got to read all the FINE PRINT!


That's why they make it so little....lol....

Mark 16: 16..."16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Acts 2: 38...."38And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 22: 16...."16And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

I Peter 3: 21...."21Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

The above Scripture is from the English Standard Version

#16 Wild74

Wild74

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,287 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Waskom, Texas

Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:40 PM

I'm skeptical of anyone that claims to pay a "fair" price and especially a "fair" price in condemnation proceedings. What is a "fair" price exactly?


Well if you don't want to sell nothing is a fair price. If it is condenmed they will compare what the others are getting for the same piece of land or something similar minus litigation cost :D

   He once said wisely: "Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains. Winston Churchill


#17 Colmesneilfan1

Colmesneilfan1

    Smoakhouse Libertarian

  • Administrators
  • 32,540 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colmesneil, Texas

Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:08 PM

Eminent Domain is a power that government has abused as of late.....it should NOT be used to get NFL owners land for their stadium....It should NOT be used to get oil companies rights of way across private property...It should NOT be used to take land to build low income housing or shopping centers....let the owners of those businesses who want to build them pay for them.....if they can't afford it, then they need to move on.....

It SHOULD only be used in very rare instances when something like a road or other PUBLIC NEED is being taken care of.....It should NEVER be used to aid PRIVATE ENTERPRISES gain land....

Mark 16: 16..."16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Acts 2: 38...."38And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 22: 16...."16And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

I Peter 3: 21...."21Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

The above Scripture is from the English Standard Version

#18 Wild74

Wild74

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,287 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Waskom, Texas

Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:26 PM

I am find with Gas Companies not having eminent domain but that will increase the cost of laying pipelines to move gas to utilties. That price will have to be passed on along with the cost of maintaining a pipeline that is now longer and less straight. Also you might suggest that the pipelines be deregulated also so they can make more money to cover their cost ,if not eminent domain needs to stay for the occasional landowner who might cause the cost for everyone to go up.

   He once said wisely: "Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains. Winston Churchill


#19 Colmesneilfan1

Colmesneilfan1

    Smoakhouse Libertarian

  • Administrators
  • 32,540 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colmesneil, Texas

Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:06 PM

Also you might suggest that the pipelines be deregulated also so they can make more money to cover their cost ,if not eminent domain needs to stay for the occasional landowner who might cause the cost for everyone to go up.


You know me...I'm for deregulating EVERYTHING.....but it's not the landowners responsibility to try to keep the price of gas down by surrendering his property....that's straight from karl marx who said we should all surrender whatever we have to for the greater good.....

Mark 16: 16..."16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Acts 2: 38...."38And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 22: 16...."16And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

I Peter 3: 21...."21Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

The above Scripture is from the English Standard Version

#20 Wild74

Wild74

    Natural

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,287 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Waskom, Texas

Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:08 PM

You know me...I'm for deregulating EVERYTHING.....but it's not the landowners responsibility to try to keep the price of gas down by surrendering his property....that's straight from karl marx who said we should all surrender whatever we have to for the greater good.....


   He once said wisely: "Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains. Winston Churchill





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users