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#21 Lhornfan

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:12 PM

The offense looked good. They have alot to put in yet. The pace is brutal. They ran over 100 plays in the first half. Didn't even have time to see replays on the scoreboard. The kicking game needs some work.

This is kind of scary IMO. It's like going ALL IN with a small pair. The SEC is known for defense, and if the NASCAR offense isn't working, the Aggie defense is also going to see over 100 plays per half. I guess my point is the pirate put up some over the top offensive stats at Texas Tech, but his defense never got to catch their breath. With the exception of a few years, Tech always seemed to finish middle of the pack or lower. When they faced the better defenses that could man up at the LOS, things got really tough for that offense.

Being a Longhorn, I shouldn't care about it, and I guess in the long run I really don't. I just don't like the idea of being so uptempo vs. the SEC defenses. I think it will hurt A&M more than help them. If nothing else because one of weaknesses that I think I'm hearing from WETSU and h-town is lack of depth on the D-Line and LBs. Oh well, who am I kidding. Deep down I hope the Aggies get the ### kicked out of them in the SEC. Doesn't mean we can't be respectful about it... right?

#22 HendersonLionfan2003

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:52 AM

This is kind of scary IMO. It's like going ALL IN with a small pair. The SEC is known for defense, and if the NASCAR offense isn't working, the Aggie defense is also going to see over 100 plays per half. I guess my point is the pirate put up some over the top offensive stats at Texas Tech, but his defense never got to catch their breath. With the exception of a few years, Tech always seemed to finish middle of the pack or lower. When they faced the better defenses that could man up at the LOS, things got really tough for that offense.

Being a Longhorn, I shouldn't care about it, and I guess in the long run I really don't. I just don't like the idea of being so uptempo vs. the SEC defenses. I think it will hurt A&M more than help them. If nothing else because one of weaknesses that I think I'm hearing from WETSU and h-town is lack of depth on the D-Line and LBs. Oh well, who am I kidding. Deep down I hope the Aggies get the ### kicked out of them in the SEC. Doesn't mean we can't be respectful about it... right?



well I can respect that lol. I for one will never root for texas but like you will keep up with them and hoping for a cotton bowl matchup.

#23 WETSU

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:13 AM

This is kind of scary IMO. It's like going ALL IN with a small pair. The SEC is known for defense, and if the NASCAR offense isn't working, the Aggie defense is also going to see over 100 plays per half. I guess my point is the pirate put up some over the top offensive stats at Texas Tech, but his defense never got to catch their breath. With the exception of a few years, Tech always seemed to finish middle of the pack or lower. When they faced the better defenses that could man up at the LOS, things got really tough for that offense.

Being a Longhorn, I shouldn't care about it, and I guess in the long run I really don't. I just don't like the idea of being so uptempo vs. the SEC defenses. I think it will hurt A&M more than help them. If nothing else because one of weaknesses that I think I'm hearing from WETSU and h-town is lack of depth on the D-Line and LBs. Oh well, who am I kidding. Deep down I hope the Aggies get the ### kicked out of them in the SEC. Doesn't mean we can't be respectful about it... right?

I agree to a point, but the key is being able to move the ball. Florida, Auburn, and Arkansas have all been very successful running a spread type offense. Arkansas even uses a hurry up much like A&M will.

I don't think the SEC defenses are that great outside of lsu bama Georgia and maybe Florida. The rest are statistically good but it's because teams just take a ball control type of approach and the offenses just aren't that good. Arkansas has been very successful running this type of offense in the sec and they can't recruit near as well as A&M does... The only player on the Arkansas offense that would start on A&M this year is Wilson and maybe a WR. So if they can be successful using a similar approach, I'm ok with sumlin giving it a shot. I do agree though that if the ags get a lot of 3 and outs then they good be in trouble defensively.
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#24 Lhornfan

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:04 AM

I agree to a point, but the key is being able to move the ball. Florida, Auburn, and Arkansas have all been very successful running a spread type offense. Arkansas even uses a hurry up much like A&M will.

I don't think the SEC defenses are that great outside of lsu bama Georgia and maybe Florida. The rest are statistically good but it's because teams just take a ball control type of approach and the offenses just aren't that good. Arkansas has been very successful running this type of offense in the sec and they can't recruit near as well as A&M does... The only player on the Arkansas offense that would start on A&M this year is Wilson and maybe a WR. So if they can be successful using a similar approach, I'm ok with sumlin giving it a shot. I do agree though that if the ags get a lot of 3 and outs then they good be in trouble defensively.

I think this is a wild boast seeing how Arkansas is being considered with a chance at the NC by many college football people - even without their horny coach. And you keep forgetting about their RB Knile Davis who led the SEC in rushing his sophomore year before missing all last year with an injury.

#25 WETSU

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:27 AM

I think this is a wild boast seeing how Arkansas is being considered with a chance at the NC by many college football people - even without their horny coach. And you keep forgetting about their RB Knile Davis who led the SEC in rushing his sophomore year before missing all last year with an injury.

Had Sherman not been stupid in his play calling, you yourself admit this, than the ags would have probably gone 10-2 and been in talks of being good this year as well.

Davis is good, but not better than Michael. Their oline has 3 first year starters this season while the ags bring back their entire starting 5. 2 of which are first round caliber tackles. Arkansas might have 1 at most start on the aggie line. So that leaves receivers. Swope isn't replaced by anyone on Arkansas roster. EZ probably isn't either. So I'll take one of the Arkansas slots.

That's leaves the qb and one WR. Like i said. I know it doesn't look like it on paper, but name one player outside of davis and Wilson that would start on the aggie offense.... Davis doesn't even count because michael is just as good of not better. This isn't a stretch by any means I don't think. The Aggies are very good at the offensive line and rb positions. Swope is good as well. The offense will surprise people next year with how well they play against sec teams. I'm not saying it will translate to wins, but I think they will be top 2 in yards and scoring in the sec. It's the defense, particularly DT, that will struggle. The ags only have 3 quality players at DT. The 4th quarter will be brutal if teams can play with a lead. This is the reason for sumlins tempo I believe. Score fast and often, make the other team play from behind and throw. The ags are solid at corner and pass rushing DEs.
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#26 Lhornfan

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:31 PM

Had Sherman not been stupid in his play calling, you yourself admit this, than the ags would have probably gone 10-2 and been in talks of being good this year as well.

Davis is good, but not better than Michael. Their oline has 3 first year starters this season while the ags bring back their entire starting 5. 2 of which are first round caliber tackles. Arkansas might have 1 at most start on the aggie line. So that leaves receivers. Swope isn't replaced by anyone on Arkansas roster. EZ probably isn't either. So I'll take one of the Arkansas slots.

That's leaves the qb and one WR. Like i said. I know it doesn't look like it on paper, but name one player outside of davis and Wilson that would start on the aggie offense.... Davis doesn't even count because michael is just as good of not better. This isn't a stretch by any means I don't think. The Aggies are very good at the offensive line and rb positions. Swope is good as well. The offense will surprise people next year with how well they play against sec teams. I'm not saying it will translate to wins, but I think they will be top 2 in yards and scoring in the sec. It's the defense, particularly DT, that will struggle. The ags only have 3 quality players at DT. The 4th quarter will be brutal if teams can play with a lead. This is the reason for sumlins tempo I believe. Score fast and often, make the other team play from behind and throw. The ags are solid at corner and pass rushing DEs.

You're right that I wondered why Sherman didn't run the ball more with a lead (contradicts what Sumlin wants to do as well in case you haven't caught on yet), but hey, that was before I realized A&M had the 3rd best QB in the nation - Top 10 draft pick. Seems Sherman was miles ahead of us on that one. One has to wonder though, Tannehill was so great in the 1st half getting the lead, why couldn't he score in the 2nd half? Yeah I know the Aggie defense didn't make adjustments and got torched in the 2nd half of a lot of games, but why couldn't the Aggie offense continue to score? I'm vexed...

C-Mike better than Knile Davis - I don't think so, but I might if I was an Aggie. Compare the line:

C-Mike in 2011: 149 carries, 920 yards, 8 TD, 6.0 avg (BIG XII known for offense)
Davis in 2010: 204 carries, 1,322 yards, 13 TD, 6.4+ avg (SEC known for defense)

Some interesting stats from Arkansas Spring Media Guide. Arkansas returns players that accounted for 100% passing, 91% of total offensive yards, and 72% rushing yards (none of this includes Davis). O-Line returns 3 starters + Mitch Smothers, a true freshmen that started the first 4 games before injury. He was the first true freshmen to start on the O-Line in UA history. So they actually return 4 starters on the O-Line... Dang you WETSU, once again just throwing things out there like they'll have 3 first year starters. FYI - they all have significant playing experience, it's not like they are incoming freshmen. UA also brings back WRs that have appeared in 136 games with 23 starts headed by Biletnikoff Contender Cobi Hamilton. Their TE is a Mackey Award Candidate as well starting 15 games with 50 catches and over 700 yards.

And no doubt the Aggie O-Line will be better this year with another year experience. But let's not get crazy. The ONLY O-lineman to break the 2011 All BIG XII team was Joeckel on the 2nd Team. C-Mike didn't even make Honorable Mention, but neither did Tannehill, so don't put too much stock into that.

PS - That Davis kid was 2nd team 2010 All SEC Offense along with another RB from Alabama named Ingram. But they're both mediocre at best; SEC is defense country.

Maybe the Arkansas offense can come over and run scout team for your defense.

#27 h-town12

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:10 PM

Kniles Davis also played in 12 games to CMikes 9, and against Arkansas he had 230 yards. Davis had 100 more caries than the next back, while CMike was splitting time with Cyrus. Not really a fair comparison of the two when Davis was toting the rock more than CMike.

Conference awards also go to the players from the top teams. If CMike would have played every game (he missed the Kansas game for crying out loud) he would have easily been honorable mention.

#28 WETSU

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:28 PM

You're right that I wondered why Sherman didn't run the ball more with a lead (contradicts what Sumlin wants to do as well in case you haven't caught on yet), but hey, that was before I realized A&M had the 3rd best QB in the nation - Top 10 draft pick. Seems Sherman was miles ahead of us on that one. One has to wonder though, Tannehill was so great in the 1st half getting the lead, why couldn't he score in the 2nd half? Yeah I know the Aggie defense didn't make adjustments and got torched in the 2nd half of a lot of games, but why couldn't the Aggie offense continue to score? I'm vexed...

C-Mike better than Knile Davis - I don't think so, but I might if I was an Aggie. Compare the line:

C-Mike in 2011: 149 carries, 920 yards, 8 TD, 6.0 avg (BIG XII known for offense)
Davis in 2010: 204 carries, 1,322 yards, 13 TD, 6.4+ avg (SEC known for defense)

Some interesting stats from Arkansas Spring Media Guide. Arkansas returns players that accounted for 100% passing, 91% of total offensive yards, and 72% rushing yards (none of this includes Davis). O-Line returns 3 starters + Mitch Smothers, a true freshmen that started the first 4 games before injury. He was the first true freshmen to start on the O-Line in UA history. So they actually return 4 starters on the O-Line... Dang you WETSU, once again just throwing things out there like they'll have 3 first year starters. FYI - they all have significant playing experience, it's not like they are incoming freshmen. UA also brings back WRs that have appeared in 136 games with 23 starts headed by Biletnikoff Contender Cobi Hamilton. Their TE is a Mackey Award Candidate as well starting 15 games with 50 catches and over 700 yards.

And no doubt the Aggie O-Line will be better this year with another year experience. But let's not get crazy. The ONLY O-lineman to break the 2011 All BIG XII team was Joeckel on the 2nd Team. C-Mike didn't even make Honorable Mention, but neither did Tannehill, so don't put too much stock into that.

PS - That Davis kid was 2nd team 2010 All SEC Offense along with another RB from Alabama named Ingram. But they're both mediocre at best; SEC is defense country.

Maybe the Arkansas offense can come over and run scout team for your defense.

Sorry, I didn't know that post season awards were the only thing that made you a good player.

I'll tell you this... The Aggies averaged 199 yards per game on on the ground and only gave up 9 sacks. Arkansas only averaged 137 yards rushing and gave up 28 sacks. So your telling me a team that average less rushing yards and gives up more 3 times as many sacks is better? Not only that, but they replace 2 starters on that line while the ags bring everyone back. Arkansas is miles ahead at qb play, but they are behind on the oline no matter how many awards either team has won.

I never said I think the ags will have a better offense than Arkansas so I don't know what your so worked up about... But I sand by my statement that the aggie oline would work over the Arkansas oline.

And those stats aren't exactly fair for Davis and Michael. Michael did that in 8.5 games while Davis did that in 12.
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#29 Immortal13

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:35 PM

And those stats aren't exactly fair for Davis and Michael. Michael did that in 8.5 games while Davis did that in 12.

the average per carry is fair

#30 h-town12

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:57 PM

the average per carry is fair


Two of the last three games were against UTEP and Miss State where he ran for 180 yards in both games. They skew the numbers.

#31 WETSU

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:30 PM

the average per carry is fair

I agree, but saying that, Michael split carries. If he had been the lead back like Davis, he would have been given the ball in every situation as opposed to when he did. Michael was the ags between the tackle back. He still has a very good average despite being used that way while gray got the outside the tackles "big play" type runs. I know that's not a measurable stat but it's my two cents on it.

Point being, both backs are interchangeable. Therefor I don't think that Davis would start over Michael which was my original argument anyway.
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#32 Lhornfan

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:29 PM

I agree, but saying that, Michael split carries. If he had been the lead back like Davis, he would have been given the ball in every situation as opposed to when he did. Michael was the ags between the tackle back. He still has a very good average despite being used that way while gray got the outside the tackles "big play" type runs. I know that's not a measurable stat but it's my two cents on it.

Point being, both backs are interchangeable. Therefor I don't think that Davis would start over Michael which was my original argument anyway.

Davis only started 8 of those games. He was not the original starter at the beginning of the season. And OMG with the outside/inside run comparison with Gray. I don't have any film from my uncle's ex-wife's sister's 3rd cousin's boyfriend, but I'm willing to bet more big running plays are downhill between the tackles/TE runs instead of the outside version. You hit a seam or a cutback, and it's don't let the door hit ya where the dog should have bit ya. Especially if Gideon is playing safety. I've seen Gideon chase more maroon and white RBs in the last four years than all other safeties combined in the history of NCAA football!

#33 WETSU

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:41 PM

Davis only started 8 of those games. He was not the original starter at the beginning of the season. And OMG with the outside/inside run comparison with Gray. I don't have any film from my uncle's ex-wife's sister's 3rd cousin's boyfriend, but I'm willing to bet more big running plays are downhill between the tackles/TE runs instead of the outside version. You hit a seam or a cutback, and it's don't let the door hit ya where the dog should have bit ya. Especially if Gideon is playing safety. I've seen Gideon chase more maroon and white RBs in the last four years than all other safeties combined in the history of NCAA football!

Those plays your talking about, was in 2010 when GRAY ran stretch and busted loose when the tackle sealed the edge. And you dont have to watch a ton of film to see that... Any real DC knows that it's a heck of a lot harder for linebackers to flow outside without getting hooked than it is to fill and plug. The only way cutback lanes are made is to run stretch type off tackle runs ad look for the linebackers to over pursue. You don't run dive or ISO and look for a cutback. ISO is the bread and butter of Michael. He's a big physical runner. If you don't see the difference than sorry...
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#34 Lhornfan

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:11 AM

Those plays your talking about, was in 2010 when GRAY ran stretch and busted loose when the tackle sealed the edge. And you dont have to watch a ton of film to see that... Any real DC knows that it's a heck of a lot harder for linebackers to flow outside without getting hooked than it is to fill and plug. The only way cutback lanes are made is to run stretch type off tackle runs ad look for the linebackers to over pursue. You don't run dive or ISO and look for a cutback. ISO is the bread and butter of Michael. He's a big physical runner. If you don't see the difference than sorry...

You my friend, are living in The Land of the Lost. "ISO, Dive" "LBs getting hooked" - you made me LOL.

Outside run plays give the defense an extra defender. We like to call it the sideline. Outside runs are more productive at the lower levels of high school football and jr. high football when there is a RB that is bigger and faster than anyone playing outside. A good example would be Shead from Cayuga. He would outrun the front seven only to face a cornerback whose thigh pads hung around his knees and rubbed together when he ran or rather got run over. Get back with me when you want to talk some real football.

PS - a little FYI, the stretch is designed to be ran inside the tackles. The only reason you will see a stretch play go outside is if the outside contain $ucks inside.

#35 WETSU

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:06 AM

You my friend, are living in The Land of the Lost. "ISO, Dive" "LBs getting hooked" - you made me LOL.

Outside run plays give the defense an extra defender. We like to call it the sideline. Outside runs are more productive at the lower levels of high school football and jr. high football when there is a RB that is bigger and faster than anyone playing outside. A good example would be Shead from Cayuga. He would outrun the front seven only to face a cornerback whose thigh pads hung around his knees and rubbed together when he ran or rather got run over. Get back with me when you want to talk some real football.

PS - a little FYI, the stretch is designed to be ran inside the tackles. The only reason you will see a stretch play go outside is if the outside contain $ucks inside.

If you say so chief ;)

ISO is a full speed up the gut hope for 4-5 yards type of run. Stretch is designed to be ran at the tackles backside and the rb has lanes to run through. If he can get the edge then take it. If he can't get the edge, look for the cutback lane or cut it up right off the tackles backside and try to hit the seam. If you don't know the difference, than you were either never a real DC like you claim, or we're a DC for a VERY short time.

I've been around football my entire life and can tell you that just because someone holds a coaching job, doesn't mean they understand the way the game works. I'm not saying your one of those people based off of one statement, but your crazy of you think more big runs at the college level are from ISO than stretch. You are confusing stretch with Toss I'm guessing, because you don't have to be elite to run stretch, you just need good vision and a quick step.
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#36 Lhornfan

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:23 AM

If you say so chief ;)

ISO is a full speed up the gut hope for 4-5 yards type of run. Stretch is designed to be ran at the tackles backside and the rb has lanes to run through. If he can get the edge then take it. If he can't get the edge, look for the cutback lane or cut it up right off the tackles backside and try to hit the seam. If you don't know the difference, than you were either never a real DC like you claim, or we're a DC for a VERY short time.

I've been around football my entire life and can tell you that just because someone holds a coaching job, doesn't mean they understand the way the game works. I'm not saying your one of those people based off of one statement, but your crazy of you think more big runs at the college level are from ISO than stretch. You are confusing stretch with Toss I'm guessing, because you don't have to be elite to run stretch, you just need good vision and a quick step.

Your the one that brought up the ISO - which is a play that is hardly used at the college level or higher because of the difficulty of 1 on 1 blocking it creates for the O-Line. And I know all about the stretch - Emmitt Smith made a living cutting back the stretch.

You simply assume that a play between the tackles is 3 yards and a cloud of dust. The fact is most plays between the tackles are more zone, zone read, power (with or without G-blocking), draw and sprint draw. These are the plays that can go for big yards with one or two cuts. And you can keep knocking my all you want, but it's your ego that is getting in the way. You think I'm confusing the Stretch with a Toss? C'mon... the toss is the easiest play to defend past the 9th grade as long as you have DBs that aren't trying to arm tackle.

You can also quit playing "you don't have to be a coach to know football" card. You are the only one that has ever brought that up. You have shown over the years that you have football knowledge, but it is the knowledge that one gets from playing football or watching football. Albeit with a passion; Lord knows I would never sit and watch game films from a kid that verballed to the Longhorns. A few highlight videos... sure, but not game film.

Added Link of Cyrus Gray Highlights and most of his big plays are designed to go between tackles.

You Tube Link

#37 WETSU

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

Your the one that brought up the ISO - which is a play that is hardly used at the college level or higher because of the difficulty of 1 on 1 blocking it creates for the O-Line. And I know all about the stretch - Emmitt Smith made a living cutting back the stretch.

You simply assume that a play between the tackles is 3 yards and a cloud of dust. The fact is most plays between the tackles are more zone, zone read, power (with or without G-blocking), draw and sprint draw. These are the plays that can go for big yards with one or two cuts. And you can keep knocking my all you want, but it's your ego that is getting in the way. You think I'm confusing the Stretch with a Toss? C'mon... the toss is the easiest play to defend past the 9th grade as long as you have DBs that aren't trying to arm tackle.

You can also quit playing "you don't have to be a coach to know football" card. You are the only one that has ever brought that up. You have shown over the years that you have football knowledge, but it is the knowledge that one gets from playing football or watching football. Albeit with a passion; Lord knows I would never sit and watch game films from a kid that verballed to the Longhorns. A few highlight videos... sure, but not game film.

Added Link of Cyrus Gray Highlights and most of his big plays are designed to go between tackles.

You Tube Link

ISO is used in every offense guy. I'm not saying it is designed to be ran 20 times a game, but it is used. Dive and blast are more from guard to guard type runs. Typically full speed try and hit the cap quick to maximize yardage. Stretch, draw, sprint, and even power are slower developing plays that are designed to let the rb make 1 cut and hit a seam. Cyrus is much better than Michael at that. Michael is known for his ability to hit the hole fast and hard and typically can break tackles 1 on 1 with linebackers. That's not saying Michael never runs a stretch or power, but his bread and butter has been straight forward hard nosed running. Stretch or any other off tackle type play is not hard nosed. In fact, a runner that's too aggressive ruins those plays because he can't use his blockers the way they should be used.

And I never said that Cyrus only scored on outside plays. But had Michael not split carries with him and gotten the bulk of the carries, it's safe to say he would have done just as well as Davis.

But one last thing.... What does it matter what film I choose to watch. I watch film on players all the time. I've always enjoyed being a student of the game. At least my comments are my own. I could go off of what a site tells me to think and be as clueless about reality as half of the subscribers to those boards. I'm not going to hype up a player based off a highlight film just because it's nt who the player really is. Highlights are typically only 20% of what a player really does in a game. The other 80% usually tells the story. Which is why I'm not sold on Swoopes or the aggie QB Matt Davis. These two are great athletes who make things happen, but are very raw and no where near capable of leading a team at the div 1 level at this time. Both will be RS sophomores at the earliest before I trust either one of them to lead an offense. But according to orangebloods or aggieyell, both of these guys are the next VY and warren moon.
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#38 Lhornfan

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:15 AM

But one last thing.... What does it matter what film I choose to watch. I watch film on players all the time. I've always enjoyed being a student of the game. At least my comments are my own. I could go off of what a site tells me to think and be as clueless about reality as half of the subscribers to those boards. I'm not going to hype up a player based off a highlight film just because it's nt who the player really is. Highlights are typically only 20% of what a player really does in a game. The other 80% usually tells the story. Which is why I'm not sold on Swoopes or the aggie QB Matt Davis. These two are great athletes who make things happen, but are very raw and no where near capable of leading a team at the div 1 level at this time. Both will be RS sophomores at the earliest before I trust either one of them to lead an offense. But according to orangebloods or aggieyell, both of these guys are the next VY and warren moon.

My comment about you watching game film was a meant as a complement to show your passion for the game. Watching game film has been part of my job since I left gollege so I don't usually do it when I have free time. It's similar to when I got my first job at Mazzio's Pizza. After working there for a month, I couldn't stand the site of pizza - much less eat it. Now don't get me wrong. I love watching football; especially college football, but not to the point that I'll watch game film of a kid that verballed to my school. I'll just wait and watch them on Saturday.

#39 WETSU

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:23 AM

My comment about you watching game film was a meant as a complement to show your passion for the game. Watching game film has been part of my job since I left gollege so I don't usually do it when I have free time. It's similar to when I got my first job at Mazzio's Pizza. After working there for a month, I couldn't stand the site of pizza - much less eat it. Now don't get me wrong. I love watching football; especially college football, but not to the point that I'll watch game film of a kid that verballed to my school. I'll just wait and watch them on Saturday.

I see what your saying. I don't do it for every kid, I just happen to know some teammates of his so I watch their tapes and he is on it. I do like to to go watch high school games of commits if I'm in the area.
Hate to lose more than you love to win, and winning will be your only option!




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