Romo didn't know it was fourth down?

Maybe that's why threw it to Hurd again.


Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo is getting a lot of criticism for throwing consecutive passes to fourth receiver Sam Hurd against Denver standout cornerback Champ Bailey on third and fourth down to end the game in Sunday's 17-10 loss.
Is is possible that Romo didn't know it was fourth down? Following the final incomplete pass to end the Cowboys hopes, a video caught on KDFW Fox-4 shows Romo seemingly telling his linemen to line back up. He then flashes three fingers to one of the game officials. After hearing the response, Romo screams and walks off field. If true, Romo apparently forgot about the spike to stop the clock on second down. When asked about the series of events, coach Wade Phillips didn't know anything about a discrepancy. He said they on the sideline what down it was and any questions would need to be directed at Romo. They may not be until Wednesday or Thursday. Romo is not scheduled to talk to the media until then.

Clarence E. Hill Jr.


Romo apparently clueless and Wade "steps up" and defers questions.

Courtesy of Clarence E. Hill Jr./Ft Worth Star Telegram

Considering I've seen some bright quarterbacks accidentally line up under guards, I can believe it.

But I can't see how it would have changed the outcome. Hurd and Crayton run slants into each other and neither are open. Witten is stuck blocking (?). Roy Williams was injured and may not play against KC.

Denver blitzed their linebackers and Dallas had not been able to spread them out for a run to work.

If it makes you feel better, I can still remember Troy Aikman throwing away a pass to Kelvin Martin to end a game against the Rams in 1992. He needed a touchdown, and there was only time for one shot in the endzone...and Troy threw it away rather than try and squeeze it in. I can only assume he thought he had another chance.

Luckily, the season ended well even if the game didn't

C'mon now. Don't overthink the topic. The point is he talks the talk about wanting to get better and he still doesn't have his head in the game at crunch time.

And please, I'm asking nicely. Don't mention Romo and Aikman in the same thought. Aikman gets a pass on doing something stupid because he actually ended up accomplishing something.

Romo, despite all his great stats, has accomplished zilch.

One irony is that you had 2 undrafted Free Agents Romo and Hurd going at a First Round pick Bailey

Is there any other team with a undrafted qb and 2 of his top 4 wideouts Hurd and Austin are undrafted free agents all from small schools?

Cowboys should have handed the ball off to Marion Barber on 4th and Goal. That game would have seen OT.

Barber was hurting Doc. He wasn't available. Everyone seemed to know that on the sideline except Wade.

The size of school or position in draft does not matter. If your players are good enough to play your theory is out the door! Oh did you notice DeMarcus Ware played at Troy? A QB can't start in the NFL and set all kinds of records without some kind of good skills. It takes a good line and receivers to accomplish this. Romo has earned the position of starting QB. All QB's have off games. Hurd had the inside position on the plays and Bailey just made good plays. Draft position has nothing to do with it.

Tashard has run well enough to take a chance on. He does run hard and gets positive yards. I really doubt Wade did not know Barber was hurting. If he did not know, then Garrett knew and he is usually calling the plays.

What does Choice have to do with my response to Doc's statement? He mentioned Barber and I said Barber wasn't available. I said that about Barber, not because I was speculating, but because Wade said as much during his presser. He himself said he didn't know why Barber wasn't in the game late. He said he later found out that Barber was working with the training staff. So, Wade's #1 RB is out and he isn't aware of the situation. Nice.

Trust me. I'm not anywhere near smart enough to imagine some of the buffoonery Wade displays.


Post Edit:

Here you go. Here's Todd Archer from DMN confirming Wade not knowing the status of his second most important offensive player.


If you're looking for a reason why Marion Barber played only seven snaps in Sunday's loss at Denver, look at his left quadriceps.

Wade Phillips said Barber's quad tightened up in the second half after carrying 10 times in the first two quarters. However, after the game Jerry Jones said he was not told of anything bothering Barber by the medical staff and in his post-game press conference Phillips said he was not sure why Barber didn't get more work in the second half.

Phillips said Barber was feeling better today than he was a week ago after sitting out of the Carolina game.

Phillips did not have an update on Felix Jones, however, his sprained PCL is likely to keep him out until after the Oct. 18 bye week.

So you're officially buying into the Peyton approach. It's all new-fangled numbers until he wins a Super Bowl, right?

Until then, just rip him to shreds and call him a bum? Even after he goes 0-4 in the playoffs, choking in such horrific fashion that even ESPN jumped off the bandwagon. He was the regular season quarterback. He'd never win anything.

Turns out he only needed seven years. Now he's considered the best quarterback in the game.

I have no qualms about Romo's thoughts during the game because even when it counts most I've seen him usual more cognizant than those around him....and there's no getting around them. During the playoff game agaisnt the Giants Romo argued with the refs over the intentional grounding rule, and unfortunately the only thing he got for it was a big fat letter from the NFL saying "sorry our refs can't figure out a simple rulebook and screwed your team. We should have listened to the quarterback."

Pardon me while I spare myself the bandwagon emotions, since I don't see any other quarterback around the Cowboys could land that's going to get them an 8+ YPA and a passer rating second only to Steve Young (who coincidentally was hated like crazy until he finally put one away.)

Ok Space lets debate a little

With the money spent on scouting today if a small school guy can play the NFL usually knows it

Ware was a first round pick and I agree many small school players who are drafted can play

But lets look how many small school undrafted players really make it?

How many undrafted qbs have led their to team to a Super Bowl Championship? I know Delhomme got the Panthers there but did not win it

How many teams have 2 undrafted wideouts in their top 4 recievers? and the 3rd is a 7th round pick from Nw Oklahoma

Not drafting some 1-3 round wideouts in the last 5 years is really hurting this team right now and that is on Jerry Jones

2006 Draft we take Bobby Carpenter ( maybe that was Parcells?) Santonio Holmes was taken 7 picks later he is getting it done for the Steelers

2007 No sack Spencer 4 picks later Anthony Gonzalez who is looking pretty good for the Colts

I understand you can't hear sarcasm in these posts. I know what Wade said about Marion. I knew it before my statement. My point was just that. I doubt that he did not know. He was bound to have asked somenoe when he wasn't playing in the second half. I would think I would notice if my #1 RB was not playing. I would definitely ask questions why he's not in there.

Well there is a big list of great players from undrafted from small schools. Warren Moon and Kurt Warner are two more QB's. Someone also missed on Tom Brady. He was drafted in 6th round. Must be some brilliant scouts didn't think he could make it. There is a nice list of undrafted and drafted small school players. You may choose to look it up yourself. Jerry Rice was drafted from a small school, Mississippi Valley State. Who knows if Dallas would have taken him with the very next pick. Tom Landry selected Kevin Brooks. Not exactly a huge hit. But he ended up starting 3 seasons for us.

Spencer has played well this season. He has pressured the QB more than just about anyone on team. The sacks will come. Just to clarify... are you saying that Ware is a bust too? He only has 13 tackles this season and Spencer has 11. Ware is in his 5th year and Spencer year 3. Oh wait Ware has no sacks either...

We could go on all day doing this type of stuff. But to answer your question. Just look up the undrafted players. It doesn't matter if they are big school or small. They're undrafted which means there might be a reason but they are not always right. Sometimes you have a player step up and plays beyond his projected talents.

For the life of me, I can't imagine why you Romo apologists keep bringing up Peyton Manning but refuse to acknowledge Rothliesberger and Flacco's playoff successes as rookies. I didn't even mention Manning, yet you are drawn to that argument? WHY?? Maybe because its your last shred of hope for Romo ever succeeding? In three more years, when Romo is still the same ole Romo, what are you going to blame it on then?

And let me tell you something kitty, my thoughts on Romo have nothing to do with being off/on any kind of bandwagon. I've been a fan for 35 years, through thick and thin and an undrafted QB from Eastern Illinois will not change that.

At this point in my Cowboys devotion, though, I'm all about accountability. Stats are worthless when you fold like a cheap suit when an important game arises.

If questioning legitimate deficiencies in his game means I'm ripping him, then I'm guilty as charged. I guess everyone in Cowboy Nation should just send him flowers and well wishes and ooh and aah when he rationalizes away his shortcomings.

Well bless is friggin' heart.

Geez, I think I hear Alice calling you.

If he really did not know, as you obviously believe, then Wade is either too stupid to effectively communicate or he's a big fat liar. It has to be one of the two.

Quit speculating and go listen to both of his pressers from Sunday evening and Monday afternoon. Both are available on dallascowboys.com. I'll even save you the boredom from listening to the whole thing. The question in Sunday's presser comes just past the halfway point of the audio file. In Monday's presser, its the last question asked.

He didn't ask anyone. His response to why Barber was absent was "I'm not sure about that. I don't now."

Yes, I can understand sarcasm when sarcasm is on display. If you were trying to be sarcastic, you failed miserably. If you tried to sound like a Wade apologist, DING DING DING you succeeded.

Unless you have been secretly coaching the Cowboys from the sidelines, whether or not you would notice or ask about Barber's absence isn't germane to the discussion. We're talking about Wade.

I have always preached "team first" concept. Dallas will win or lose because of the team play. Romo is just the focus of most of the people that need somewhere to put it on.

Well Flacco did well also his first year. But you can say that he's only averaged a QB rating of 50.8 in the playoffs and in the biggest game of his career his rating was 18.2.... Where most on here with Romo doing that it would just prove he is too up and down and can't win in big games. I however would say that Baltimore had a bad day and look for the reasons why his play showed to be so poor. I don't just blame QB like most everyone else.

Romos play has been hurting the "TEAM", thats why he is the focus.

Others on the team have hurt them also. My point is it is a team and Romo has played well enough to win.

What others, the runningbacks or line #1 rushing team in the league, the defense hard to do much better when the opposing team starts on our 45 every possession, special teams (best its been in a long time), ah now we get to the receivers I buy little stock in that, imo good quarterbacks make good receivers

4 turnovers against the Giants is playing well enough to win? You've got to be kidding...

1) I can acknowledge that many quarterbacks have instant success when they start their careers. Does that mean this is the norm? Of course not. Many quarterbacks just aren't lucky enough to get a no.1 or no.2 defense out of the gate.

This still doesn't discount that Romo and many, many others to come may have to toil for quite awhile before they have that one year where everything clicks. Pretty cut and dry.

2) Let's not pretend the Denver game was more important than it was. It holds no NFC tiebreaker. Our games against Atlanta, GB, and our division rivals will be far more important. I can understand your disappointment... be glad you're not a Lions/Cardinals/Rams fan.

3) I could care less if we point out his flaws. I myself have stated he can't have another game like the Giants game, but I say this based on analyzing what he's done in the past (and what other quarterbacks have done that have been SB-bound). I draw the line at pushing blame on him that isn't his. I also draw the line at wiping out everything he's done or is yet to do based on the same silly emotion that the Indy fans (or even the Giants fans)persist in before their quarterback has even finished half his career.

So let's not pretend he's "folded like a cheap suit" when other quarterbacks have done far, far worse before they notched a playoff victory. I've pointed out several in previous threads. Maybe I'm the only one who things history and probability matter for anything.

4) I make no claims of Romo's future success; I don't put some magical aura on him that fritters away his mistakes. I look at the game play by play (or trust the opinion of other fans that do the same, and may have more football knowledge than myself). I call it like I see it. I'll take my chances in going to the Super Bowl with a quarterback with a 95 passer rating and an 8+ YPA over a lesser qb. If you bothered to check, you'd see that Roethlisberger averages more INT and FUMBLES per game than Romo does, and he seems fine.

** As for the initial reason for this post, which we've strayed far from, I've actually gone back and looked at what happened with the last play. Have any of you? This whole thing is way overblown.

two of these turnovers were Romo's fault, no question. They were bad throws and bad decisions, even if one was a fluke.

Two were not.

It might have been mitigated if our defense had hung on to two easy Manning INT's. They didn't.

You really need to start looking at the real stats before shooting your mouth off. Since your trying to lay it all on Tony again. He's had 4 turnovers through 4 games. Ely Manning has 3 through 4 games. Ben Roethlisberger has 4 through 4 games. Peyton Manning has 4 through 4 games. Joe Flacco has 4 through 4 games. Drew Brees has 3 turnovers in 4 games. So much for your blaming Tony for the other teams starting at 45 on every possession because of his turnovers. It takes more than good QB's to make a good receiver. Don't step off on the deep end here. You really need to watch the games.

Romo did not commit 4 turnovers against new york. He also did not give up an 11 play drive in the last 3:40 of the game while we were ahead. Yes Romo helped score 31 points against the all world gnats. Sure Romo had a bad game. But, he played well enough and they still had the lead to win.

Watch the games? Haha, I watch the games, but does that make you an expert because you watch the games. You probably have never played a down in your life statboy. You really need to step off romos jock, the quarterbacks you have listed all are winning. I dont care if he has had 10 turnovers long as we win. The only stat i look at is win/loss. But I know your the typical romo fan and he will have a good game against the chiefs and you will hit the forums up on how great he is and where are the nay sayers now, blah blah. Fact of the matter is he stinks and we need a new quarterback if we ever want to get back to the super bowl.

You sound like someone just as messed up as me then. If you believe that it is only the QB that wins. If your QB has 10 turnovers and you don't care as long as they win?! You need help. Football is a team concept you need to understand that. I need to get off here now so I can go play. LOL

Tony Romo is undecided about were the ball goes he's actually not as good as Danny White was, who could not lead Dallas to a Super Bowl but was a good quarterback.Wished Troy Aikman could return he could do better than Romo at his age.

the radio in romo's helmet is for play calling right? they couldnt tell him what down it was if he was confused?

Now I get it. You're one of those "stats mean everything" or "stats tell the story" kind of fellers. That is all I need to know now about where you're coming from.

Quick question, though. Do you think you could find ANY Steelers fan that would trade Ben for Romo? Do you think they care about INTs and FUMBLES when the final result is a victory in the Super Bowl? Yeah...I didn't think so.

That echo you're now hearing is the sound coming from that GIANT HOLE in your STATS argument.

I like Danny White, but unfortunately this is patently untrue. At the same point in their careers (White and Romo share the same perspective in that they sat for several years), Romo is better in completion percentage, YPA, and passer rating. In 1980 alone Danny White threw 25 interceptions, at which point everyone thought he sucked and assumed he must have been dating Morgan Fairchild.

and that was a bad thing?

Danny White took Dallas to 3 NFC Championship games in his first three years as the Cowboys' starter (1980, 81, and 82). Tony Romo has not won a playoff game in his first 3 years as a starter (2006, 07, and 08). Danny White was also an excellent punter. Danny White was better.

Stats may not be the entire story. However, MATH can be useful in your everyday life if you try it.

I try to put a little logic into it. I suggested I would take Romo over the unknown for several reasons:

1) 8+ Yards Per Attempt. He would rank no. 3 all-time currently, behind Otto Graham and Sid Luckman. The top YPA passers have many championship guys, but there's a few on there that didn't win anything, like Dan Fouts and Ed Brown. Oh, and Ben Roethlisberger is 6th currently, so apparently he's doing something right to help that defense along.

2) Top 5 passer rating amongst ALL quarterbacks (again, top 5). Although it favors more modern quarterbacks, I would assume hovering around 95 for his career gives him a darn good chance at a Super Bowl. A better chance than somebody pulling in the average 80. History tends to put things like that in perspective.

3) I know from studying other SB winning quarterbacks that prior failures in playoffs/big games don't hamper future success. I know that winning percentages in the modern era of the NFL hinges most on two things; teams that can pass well, and defend the pass well.

I would look at it like I would look at stocks. I can see Romo's history and gauge his future success on that. Many can. Doesn't mean it will happen...a drastic falloff can change everything and it's still early in his career.

What I don't do is try to judge how good he is (or will be) by one game, or how he speaks in a news conference after the game, or who he dates, or what town his parents live in, or whether he has a jutting chin.

Or whatever hindsight-influenced method or astrology chart you're suggesting.

Excellent points but I'm afraid I'm one of the few that agrees. You need to take the whole picture in. The Cowboys have a solid team and just need some cohesion. For whatever reason they haven't been able to stay consistent with any of their attempts. There are several factors that have proven to be good for them. Tony has the capability (talent) to win the big one. The offensive line has shown great domination in their running game at times. The Defensive line has shown periods of great run stopping ability. The special teams has shown great improvement and hopefully it continues to get better. Just putting most of it together should be enough to win. Against really good teams they need to be hitting on all areas.

There you go....still in wonderland. I have judged your hero on his last 20 games now and after every press conference. Even though they involved no math, his postgame comments last season were very telling in regard to his attitude. Through my study of all unsuccessful QBs last season, I determined that Romo had the worst attitude rating of the bunch. He did, though, lead the other losers in number of pouting episodes per game.

All stats aside, at least he has improved on his attitude toward his job this year. Even though he's still a screw up most of the time, at least he's saying the right things now. Too bad his game didn't improve along with his attitude.

The same look that you claim to be pouting is just Romo considering ways to correct problems. Just about every QB has times on the sideline where he is by himself (even with head down) contemplating options or just clearing it out. Nothing wrong with that. You should see some of the looks that either manning has in these times. Maybe you should try studying with more open mindness when you "judge"what someone is thinking.

So, I'm evidently not alone when it comes to not being able to recognize sarcasm. It makes me feel good that you're as inadequate in that department as me.

I've kind of become drunk on all these stats you and Kitty have been throwing around. So, please enlighten me. How do you correlate Romo's league-leading pouting episodes with me judging what he's thinking about? I don't recall speculating on what your hero is thinking about when pouting. If I had to guess, though, I would say it probably involves golf, or his girlfriend, or what he's doing after the game. That's my best open-minded effort.

After all, if he was thinking about correcting his screw-ups then he wouldn't go back out and continue to miss open receivers and forget what down it is on the game-deciding series. If he's thinking about things, as you say he is, he's obviously not a good thinker or he's thinking about something besides the game.

Update........

Good news Cowboy fans. After researching the past four weeks of NFL action, Romo currently leads all QBs in thinking while on the sidelines!!

Whatever he is thinking it must be funny because he always has that s**t eating grin on his face.

How am I the one in wonderland when you've decided his future and thrown out the whole of his body of work based on a small sample size and judged him on nothing more than he doesn't "look" right to you? You judge most people this way?


Logic, untangle thyself.

I'm not blaming all of the Cowboys' woes on Romo. First, Flozell Adams has got to go! His overpowering strength & meaness has been overcome by his lack of a mind. Get what you can get for him and move on. Second, Romo's confidence level has hit an all time low. We know he has the ability, but he's afraid the chute won't open if he jumps out of the plane. Which brings me to three, the Cowboys don't have a single receiver that can't be covered one-on-one. I'm not a T.O. fan by any means but he was the hardest working (and best) receiver the Cowboys had-he just couldn't keep that mouth shut. Fourth, Wade Phillips-need I say more?