Does anyone have a schedule for the UIL Region 21 Marching Contest? Is it on 10/17? Is anyone allowed to attend? Thanks!

Yes it will be on 10/17 at SFA. A schedule can be found at www.uilforms.com. This site has information about all of the regions all over the state. And yes, anyone is more than welcome to attend the contest.

Thanks so much!!

I will be be going to help the Overton Mustang Marching Band and we will plan to stay all day long.

Since graduating in 1998 from Longview, I've done the all day thing at Region 21 almost every year. This year though, I'm going to watch Winona (for family), and then come back for most of the 3A's and the rest of the show.

Good luck to all the bands in Region21 that are going to UIL today. Great weather for marching bands.

GO BULLARD PANTHER BAND!!

Lindale goes on the field at 7:00. Trying for straight 1's to make it the 35^th year of having straight 1's.

Best wishes to Mr. Moore, Ms. Scott, and all of the other Lindale band directors and students too!!!!!!!!! Bring it home again!!!!

Class 1A Results

Tenaha 1-1-1 advances
Carlisle 1-1-1 advances
Timpson 1-1-2 advances
Joaquin 1-1-2
Overton 2
Martins Mill 3
West Sabine 4

2a anyone!

congrats to tenaha band!!! by far the best 1a band there!!! good luck next week!!!

Heard Lindale made straight 1's yet again!! Friend of mine heard about a few other schools doing pretty good but for the life of me I can't remember what schools they were.

The ones I remember:

Garrison - 1
Winona - 1

Left after Winona, got back just as they were announcing, didn't get all of the bands results. 3A and above I watched.

Rusk - 1
Palestine - 1
Van - 1
Center - 1
Athens - 1
Diboll - 2
Tatum - 2
Bullard - 2
Brownsboro - 1
Carthage - 1
Crockett - 4 (only had 14 kids, if I counted right). What's going on in Crockett? Thought they had a bigger band. It took courage to get out there, they gave it their best, just didn't have the band to do it.
Hudson - 2
Chapel Hill - 2
Palestine Westwood - 2
Hallsville - 1
Henderson - 1
Whitehouse - 1
Lindale - 1
Jacksonville - 1
Longview - 1 (60th consecutive)
Nacogdoches - 1
Lufkin - 1
John Tyler - 2
Robert E. Lee - 1 (Awesome show, great music and drill).

I liked JT's better than Lee's.
Props of Taxis and backdrops. 7 Xylophones, A gong, A large bass drum, microphones, amplifiers, and 3 electronic keyboards on the sidelines...
Marching contest?

You see the props and other stuff in the bands out of Houston and Dallas all the time. Heck, that will actually HELP them make it to state during their years...that's what the judges are looking for, the props and #### that aren't a part of the "band" if you ask me.

Congratulations to all the bands at contest.

Way to go Lobos on number 60!

What does it mean by "advances" on tenaha, carisle, and timpson?

To my understanding that means that these bands advanced to area competition next week. Joaquin should have advanced as well if they had wished to do it.
Does anybody have like a full run down of the whole contest. Who were the best? was the judging good? who advanced and has a shot at making it to state?

So it was purely the band teachers/admin choice to go to the area contest? (if they recieved a 1)

Keep checking the uilforms site. They'll have the ratings posted there. I wrote them all down, but gave my sheet away last night.

Overall, the judging was fair. I was surprised that the bands were as prepared as they were considering so many days of practice and even halftimes had been rained out.

Crockett: My husband's school had a playoff game in Crockett several years ago. After halftime I talked with a young man who said he had been in the Crockett band. Sadly, he was wanting to know why my husband's band was so good - what it takes to have a good band. He told me that the problem in Crockett was that nobody cared about the band - not Admin, the parents, the kids, the community.

Those 14 young people yesterday did their best. It took a lot of guts to get out there and "compete." I was afraid that the band students who were sitting in the stands might taunt or laugh, especially since some compete with Crockett in other events. Instead, they cheered and clapped. At the end, many stood. What a display of class!

I wish the judges had been more generous in their ratings. Many of the band directors I was sitting with had the same opinion. It wouldn't have hurt anybody or anything to have judged these kids on the basis of guts and determination and given them a 2. This was an opportunity to encourage a band and the few students who are trying to keep the program alive.

But ... that's just my opinion.

I believe so. I think the only requirement is that you turn a form in stating that you want to advance in case you make a 1st division. However, most of the time many military bands decide not to advance since their chances of being succesful in area and state against corps bands are very slim.

theyre chances are NOT slim !!! look at tenaha and carlisle!!! tenaha won area 2 years ago and both did well at state!!!!

Thank you, longhorn. It makes since for joaquin not to advance seeing as the last time they made a 1st division was 1989. But thanks for letting me know.

I understand what you mean and what you are feeling, but if the Judges start to be generous in their ratings then we start losing the integrity of the whole contest. They have to have the same standard for each band and not have different standards. That's just how it has to be or contest starts to be pointless in my opinion.

The judges have guidelines they have to go by in order to judge. Crockett did the best they could with what was on the field. It is a shame that they don't get the support from the admin and community. Keep it up and they won't have a band at all in the coming years, and to me THAT would be a shame. I clapped for them as well. A lot of the kids watching clapped, and they got a good applause even when the ratings were announced. They need to keep their heads up and keep going. I would love to see their band get bigger and better.

As for military bands having a chance, not so true in 4A and 5A. The judging at Area is pretty biased towards the corps style. It almost requires you have flags and other props. Bands like Longview are behind the eight ball before they even begin their drill. But they keep going.

Yep. When I was in band at Longview, we went to area in 2004 knowing that we wouldn't advance. As soon as they finished the awards ceremony everyone including the directors were just ready to go home. It was a shame too, because we marched and played better that day than any other performance that year. Bands like Longview and Lufkin go just for the sake of going I believe.

Has anyone seen anything about Region 21 in the newspaper? It seems like the community just doesn't care sometimes. Longview's band made history yesterday, but the Longview News-Journal is just full of Yamboree info and pictures. It seems to me, that if the community learned about the band's great tradition, more kids would want to join. But let's face it, most people in Longview, especially people that are new to the area are clueless as to how great our band program and it's directors are.

Even the high school doesn't show the band any respect, or at least they didn't while I was there. The directors hardly ever bothered putting info in the daily announcements because no one cared to hear about it.

Sorry this turned into a rant, just sorta happened.

wt, I was in the Band from 94-98. Same thing, we did get an article in the school paper in 94, but that was b/c Chris Craddock was in the band, and on the newspaper staff. They run the small article on the Band, usually during the week following contest, in the News-Journal.

It's a shame that the band doesn't get more press, but nowadays, it seems like it's expected almost. When we went to Area in 1996, the directors told us there was one judge there that bascially drew a line up from the bottom of the rankings for how many military bands were there and ranked them below that line. That year, Kingwood got alternate to State, but to me it was only b/c of their size and sound. They had "flags" but they were just banners really.

From what I could tell, the Lobo Band made it to state only once, in 1984 (the first year of State marching competition). Would love to see them do it again, but with the way the judges work at Area nowadays, it'll probably be impossible. Only way would be if they switched to corps/show. And I hope that NEVER happens, no matter how much people gripe and complain about the "old" style and/or music. It' snot an old style to me, it's a tradition that is dying among bands in Texas, and the country. The biggest group of military bands still surviving is in the East Texas area, with a few down in the Houston area with Humble, Kingwood, and Atascocita. Those and Lufkin are the only 5A military bands surviving right now, as far as I know.

I've got nothing against Kingwood. I would say that they are better than Longview has been over the last several years. Longview looked about as bad last year as I ever saw them. Kingwood is an outstanding band, but I do think that since Larry Ward left they have lost something. It could be from students getting split into Atascocita and Kingwood Park, I don't know.

Military marching should be praised whether it's Longview, Kingwood, or any other band. I for one don't want to see these bands with such rich traditions switch over to corps. I would rather see Longview discontinue the band program. Longview or Lufkin switching to corps would be like Texas A&M switching to corps. Plus if that ever happened, guys like Pete Kunkel, Waymon Bullock, and Butch Almany would just come out of retirement to clean up the mess.

As for military bands going to state, a lot of these bands incorporate corps style elements into their drill. Lindale in 2007 for example had a pit and did some corps style marching, but I think it payed off and I believe they deserved to go to state that year. IMO Lindale was one of the best if not the best at region that year.

The only 2A Ratings I could hear were WR, who got straight 1's for the first time in several years, and Arp and Frankston each with a 2. Does anyone have the rest of the 2A results?

Posted on UILFORMS.com

Arp 1-2-2
Elkhart 2-1-2
Frankston 2-2-3
Garrison 1-1-1
San Augustine 2-2-2
Shelbyville 1-2-1
Troup 2-2-2
Winona 1-1-1

So is it a tit-for-tat thing with 3A and lower? Since 4a and 5a favor Corps, 3a and lower favor Military?

Did a single 3a Corps band get a 1? My daughter told me some awesome Corps bands still got a 2 at 3a and below.

Too many judges seem to have some fixed idea about what marching band SHOULD be. And they seem to think all marching bands should be either Corps or Military, depending on the judge, and if they favor one, they rate the other lower.

It is kinda the way the vocal competitions go where the judges tend to favor Sopranos and Tenors over Altos, Baritones, and Bases.

Whatever happened to objectivity? The judges should quit trying to send a message about Corps or Military style through their judging, and leave that debate outside the competitions.

As far as I know,t he only corps band in 3A and below to get a 1 was Winona, and that was WELL deserved. The corps bands I saw, the music probably got the the 2. It might not have been as clean as needed. Also, some of the elements weren't as clean and precise as needed overall for a 1. Just my opinion. The only "military" judge I know of at the contest was Mr. Lovelace. He was a former Longview assistant, former head director for DeKalb, and current director at New Boston. The other two judges were from Baytown, which to me would say they'd favor corps bands more. To me, the judging was fair and just at Region. It's Area where the judging is biased to me, but it's biased from the beginning based on the rubrics they must go by. You can find those on the main UIL website under the music section.

I agree with you on Kingwood. They were amazing. I was bitter back in HS, lol. But, that was then. There are just too many amazing bands in the 4A and 5A levels nowadays. The lower classes, the bands have to be a decent size to be good as far as musically. There are some good bands in the lower levels as well.

Thanks.

I only saw the 4/5a, and this is the first time in <cough>...a lot of years I've watched. I was impressed with the sound out of Whitehouse, their lines weren't perfect. Same with Nacodoches. Longview was good. I really liked Lindale's performance - it seemed to add a tiny bit of corps style with the snowflakes or whatever they were. I'm a Henderson alumnus, and they were very clean and sharp, but I would have liked to see a little more wow in their drill and sound (too many years watching A&M maybe). I always wondered why we never advanced in marching, so that is interesting.

On a side note, I remember being at some parade competition in TN once where apparently we were the only military band there. It was hilarious the response we got when we snapped to attention - it was like a hushed awe over the crowd - they thought it was great! :-)

With all but 1 of this group getting Division 1's, do you think they may need to increase the requirements a bit more to differentiate better? Or is it just that state-wide, we have a pocket of REALLY good bands here?

There are good bands across the state. I think the judging is just fine the way it is at Region. In some ways, it's become easier today than what it was back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. They've dropped the inspection portion of the rating system. They wanted to see the uniforms in good order, no missing buttons, shoes shined, instruments polished, etc.

For me, it was fun in 1996 when we went to Disney for their contest. We did the parade and concert competition. We ended up walking out of there with 6 out of I think 9 or 10 possible trophies. By the time they announced us for the 3rd trophy, the other bands (I think 3 others in all) were booing us. It was funny though. We went down there and kicked butt, and had no qualms about it. We won best JV and Varsity concert band, as well as best jazz band, and 2 others I can't remember. Maybe best band overall. Shame we didn't do the marching competition they had or we would've probably won that one as well.

Palestine also got a 1. I saw all but a few bands and all of the bands that got 2s or below had something that warranted that rating. I thought a few of the bands that got 1s were borderline but I haven't seen the results of all three judges to confirm my suspiscions. I just saw the composite rating.



You would think that there would be a lot more 2s and 3s at contests. It seems that the ratings are inflated sometimes. If you look at what the rubric says, it seems that judges usually score easy. A 1 really should be reserved for Superior performances.

Poor (V) Below Average (IV) Average (III) Excellent (II) Superior (I)

Congratulations to Lindale Eagle band for 35 years of straight ones. Also congrats to West Rusk Band for taking home all superior one ratings. And last but certainly not least O verton great show.

I agree John Tyler desreved a one this year way better than lees performance

Does JT still march Show style?

There are three judges for music and two for marching. there is no judge for general effect, which is what flags and props fall under. That is a BOA caption. the only things that band get points for are music and marching. there are clear guidelines for how points should be awarded, therefore, if a military band is meeting these guidelines they should be able to compete well. I think the issue is that the bigger bands from this side aren't getting the lessons and such that the bands in dfw are usually requiring that their students get. I think that really does give those bands an advantage with their music. if every section runs deeper, they are going to sound better.

I still believe that maybe some of the judges think marching to a Fillmore march isn't as technically demanding as say a piece by Frank Ticheli and that hurts them.

For example, a corps band does whatever a corps band does to Fortress or Cajun Folk Songs while a military band does an oblique maneuver to Rolling Thunder. A layman would probably think the corps band has it harder by marching backwards or sideways, while a military band staying in a straight line, 30 inches apart front to back and side to side and is always marching forward is a ton easier.

The one thing that gets me about corps bands is that most of the time when a band messes up, you can't tell because of the abstract shapes. But if a military band messes up, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Is that squiggly line supposed to be squiggly? I can't tell because there is a semi circle inside half a triangle next to it.

Is that french horn player supposed to be a step behind his line and off step with the rest of the band while marching in a block? No, he is not.

Yes sir and despite the judges opinions at what we have learned to call 2IL
(The contest formerly known as UIL) LOL -We will always be a show band .

I personally would rather watch a show band than a corps band. Hey, I would take a two over a four like they recieved a few years ago.

Not sure what you meant but I do not think JT should feel like we have been blessed to gat a 2 instead of a 4 . I am assuming that is not what you meant and that you were complimenting our inprovement ?? By the way the last 4 was at least 10 years ago . I just know first hand that it is very hard for the kids to even think they could get a 1 at 2IL because it has not happened in 20 plus years no matter what they have done it just never seams to be good enough . I do know they are appreciative of the crowd reaction ( Other band students) and I guess somone in 4 and 5 A has to get less than a 1 or all the others 1's would be meaningless.

It is extremely comical to see all of the posts(by people who have probably never been to area and don't even know who the judges are) about how military bands aren't given a fair shake at area and the judges have this vendetta against them. How stupid. The judges critique you based on your performance...if you don't expose your percussion or woodwind sections then guess what, you're probably not going to get many points other than for your ensemble and marching. As another poster stated earlier, you do not receive extra points for props or guard. Which is the misconception that most of you have.

That's where military bands lose ground...because they don't have enough percussion or woodwind exposure (they're part of the band too, ya know). I'm not saying compromise your marching style by adding corps. style elements but you need to do something...like New Boston and Spring Hill for example. Their directors aren't stubborn...but very smart and know how to play the game.

You didn't just type that did you? I am fairly positive that judges know that SOME Henry Fillmore marches are just as technically demanding, some even more so, as a Ticheli piece.

You have to understand the concept of the show. Most corps band shows are designed around a theme. REL theme is NYC. The directors sit down in the summer and write a summary to where the crowd better understands what is going on. DCI does this as well. Here is REL's info straight from their website, www.relband.org

Marching Band 2009 Show Announcement: Scenes from the City

This years show will be an exploration of the scenery of New York City. Each part of the show, which we will call "scenes," will musically depict different places of the Big Apple. Our adventure will take us to Times Square, Broadway, the Statue of Liberty, and the New York Philharmonic. We will use the music of Frank Ticheli, Andrew Lloyd Weber, Benjamin Britten, and traditional American music. So be on the lookout for traffic jams, the Broadway theatre, patriotism and an orchestra! Hope you enjoy our 2009 show, Scenes from the City!

The music is arranged to enhance the pit; that is why there are 7 xylo's. This is corp band not military where there is no pit. There is a rigorous tryout process that goes into who plays in the pit because there is such a large percussion section and those numbers are capped at the middle school level, but when you have 3-4 middle schools feeding the program, you have a plethora of talented students. The props enhance the drill design. All of their music and drill is personally arranged, not pre-bought. Planning for next years show and design starts now for most corp bands. Please, don't discriminate until you know all the facts!!!

This is true Corp or show bands usually have a theme or even story to there show and is in may cases a production. A tribute to an artist or person is even considered very acceptable The hard work that is put into these shows deserves much more respect than given in region 21 . There is a lot creativity needed to pull this off and within corps/show bands there is artistry and showmanship. We do not run around knocking the military style of marching as we are taught and teach our students to respect and learn from diversity.