I ran into some articles that basically state that West Orange was going forfeit a District volleyball game in order to attend a Non-District football game. Apparently, most of the volleyball team are also either cheerleaders and/or drill team members. I understand that Hardin-Jefferson agreed to reschedule the match so there won't be a forfeit. I know it is tough for smaller schools with athletes that play multiple sports, but what about committment? Forfeiting a District Volleyball game to be at a Non-District football game. I don't get it!

Anyway read these articles for yourself!

http://www.orangeleader.com/hssports/local...eyword=topstory

http://www.orangeleader.com/hssports/local...eyword=topstory

http://kogt.com/WOS%20forfeits.htm

[quote name='TylerTx44' date='Oct 27 2009, 01:07 PM' post='1255634']
I ran into some articles that basically state that West Orange was going forfeit a District volleyball game in order to attend a Non-District football game. Apparently, most of the volleyball team are also either cheerleaders and/or drill team members. I understand that Hardin-Jefferson agreed to reschedule the match so there won't be a forfeit. I know it is tough for smaller schools with athletes that play multiple sports, but what about committment? Forfeiting a District Volleyball game to be at a Non-District football game. I don't get it!

Doesn't surprise me. Even if it was a district football game, there should have never been a thought of missing the volleyball game.

Old news...this happened several weeks ago......

O.K.

Sorry for taking up database space.....won't happen again.

We won't be bashing any coaches on here...the next instance of THAT will result in a 30 day suspension...

No coach bashing here. That was the reason I started this topic. WOS volleyball coach, Gwen Kelly-Hall, had to feel awful when she thought they may have to forfeit a district game.

I suspect that the decision...... to not play a district volleyball game and go to a non-district football game .........was either student athlete driven or parent driven or a combination of both.

My daughter just graduated high school and is currently playing a college sport on scholarship and plans to be a coach. I imagine..... after she spends four years in college.......takes a coaching job.......and a similar situation happened to her team, she would be devastated.

Tyler i totally understand where you're coming from. I'm a coach for a different sport, but I'd be devastated and in shock if majority of my team decided to not play a district ball game to go watch another sport. Like the article said, it's a sense of pride and commitment. But that's just the price to pay when so many kids/student-athletes are involved in so many things, and most of the time influenced to do it either by parents or peers.

I hope things worked themselves out down there, because the head coach can only do so much when she doesn't have the support from the athletes and parents or even administration. Hate to see a successful program get torn apart by different priorities.

I agree it is about pride and commitment..........the exact same scenario happened to my daughter her freshman year in High School.

She was a varsity cheerleader and a starting JV volleyball player. On Friday nights......for those unfamiliar with Friday night protocols........schools usually play varsity volleyball first so people are able see the varsity volleyball game then scoot over to watch the varsity foofball game.

Anyway......varsity volleyball played first that Friday night and The JV played last. There was no way she could be at the start of both Varsity Football and JV Volleyball. She chose to play JV volleyball.......she showed up late to the Varsity Football game. She still got there well before halftime and we traveled just over 50 miles between volleyball and football venues.

And things did work out.....

Hardin-Jefferson ......from what I understand.......... agreed to reschedule the match for a later date.

That says alot about Hardin-Jefferson. The AD there.....David Martel........ looks like a stand up guy!

The coach bashing refers to my post, I guess. I shouldn't have said it, but I know for a fact it is 100% truth as a friend of mine was in the room when he said it. Anyway, if I was the coach of that VB team, I would have demoted those girls who chose to miss to JV and brought up girls who want to play. It is a shame that those girls base their decision on being subserviant to boys. Give me some girls who are competitive, independent, and coachable.

I agree with you totally, World22.

By the way World22.....I never saw you or anyone bash a coach in this thread. I am sure there must be some misunderstanding.

Anyway...I agree......If I were that coach......I would like to think I would have brought up my JV to Varsity and just not have a JV. But she......the volleyball coach.....would most likely catch trouble from the parents of the affected athletes if she did that.


You spoke of demoting the varsity players......I am not sure that is possible. UIL has rules about varsity........if they play varsity......I don't think they can go back down and play sub-varsity. Not really sure.

I also feel the way you do......I would rather lose with kids that want to play than win with talented kids who care less.

Those posts were removed.....There was no misunderstanding at all.....

Well Good Job Colmesneilfan1! Way to stay on top of things!

For a long time I have wondered, what the possibility was.... of moving varsity and jv volleyball from Fridays nights to Thurdays nights. That way.........this problem would be a moot point.

The larger metropolitan schools usually have so many kids........playing multiple sports, just does not happen........but for the smaller and more rural schools........there are many athletes that cross over and participate in multiple sports.

Is there a reason we play varsity volleyball on Friday nights? If volleyball has to compete with football.....volleyball loses.......everytime.

Some schools solve the problem by having volleyball games on Saturday....the district I am currently in has volleyball games at the same site as the football games on Fridays.......

Can't play two games in a school week. If you play on Tuesday you can't play again until Friday or Saturday. The only exception will be the first two weeks of the season and play-offs, and also tournaments that might start on a Thursday.
Many schools play on Saturday, but then you have cross-country conflicts.

That would do it if all schools would do the same thing...........play the varsity volleyball game first and the problem would be solved.

Varsity VB games start at 4:30...sub-varsity after (if there are sub-varsity teams....)...It wouldn't have solved the problem in the article, however, since the football game was a non-district game.....

I think it would have solved the problem..... If the district scheduled Friday night District football games and volleyball games with the same teams at the same venue on Friday's.......if the Boys were playing a non-district game........the volleyball team would have a non-district match also.....

With that scenario.......the girls could play volleyball and show up late for football or.......If they decided to not play volleyball and go to the football game..........at least it wasn't a district game.

non-district games are just glorified practices anyway...IMO.

The bottom line........ no commitment. That's the real problem here.

They were committed to their cheerleading/drill team....just because their commitment didn't go the way you believe it should have gone does not mean that they had no committment......

I agree Kramer.....no commitment. The truth behind this story.....was.......Hardin-Jefferson could not play on Saturday. They had too many kids involved on another Saturday event.

What Hardin Jefferson did do was move the start time to 4:00pm and said they would play varsity volleyball first.

If the match had gone 2 hours long (and they rarely do).......they would finish at 6:00pm. The football game was a 7:30 start. That would give them and hour and half before the football game started and probably 2 and a half hours before halftime.......(for the drill team members)

That was my point all along.......why not do both.....play the volleyball game and then go to football game?

While it may have been inconvenient, it was feasable.

It can be done. We play our varsity first on Fridays at 4:30 and then the J.V. Once district starts for football, the district volleyball games are played at the same site as football. Pre-district football games are the ones that we might have a few problems with. But even then, the girls know that volleyball comes first and then cheer,dance line, band etc. If they are a little late for the start of the football game, it's no big deal.

I agree with part of that. But what makes this an issue is that you miss one thing to do another. Which means you're not dedicated to doing something. The old saying "jack of all trades and master of none" comes to mind. They're doing everything under the sun, just because they can.

That's where I think more people are seeing it from, that you would MISS something to go do another. And if you asked them "why did you miss the volleyball game?", they'd say all my friends were going to the game, my bf was playing football, I don't like volleyball that much. But whatever the reason is, you're not teaching these kids the right way of committing to something or being dedicated. Which then goes to the soceity now of, I don't wanna do something just because or I'm going to do what I want and not think of the consequences behind it.

Just my 2 cents!

If they are that committed, then go cheer and dance. Just stay off of the volleyball court. Obviously there was no commitment to the volleyball team.

If they weren't on the volleyball court, there wouldn't have been a team to play all the other games.....moot point.....they choose to participate in multiple events...they choose the pecking order of those events in their lives......

I agree they were committed to the cheerleading team and the drill team. But! They also should have been committed to the volleyball team they joined. They did join I assume. No one forced them to play volleyball.

When they chose to commit more to the cheerleading team and drill team than the volleyball team....
they also chose to ignore the feelings of the head volleyball coach and the three other volleyball players that wanted to play. This decision harmed other people.

They were willing to cost their volleyball team mates a district game. I tell you this........I do all the preperation........weights......running........practicing since before school started......... and then my buds say........I don't want to play.....I want to go cheer and dance..... If I am the coach or one of 3 girls that wanted to play.........I am Mad! I am wasting my time!

WOS's School Motto is "The Home of Champions"

Last time I checked....Champions Don't forfeit District Games!

The cheerleaders were not going to lose a game that night. Niether was the drill team.
But with 3 volleyball players.......that volleyball team is going lose....FACT...and they did not care!

The lack of a few cheerleaders, the first half of that game........was not going to affect that football game and the cheerleaders could have performed cheers that did not require lifts and stacks.

The drill team members would not have missed in the stands.
They would have been there well before halftime to perform their halftime dance.

Kramer...I agree with you...... commitment.......... and we'll also add priority!

These are all skills that we should be teaching our kids.

Commitment - Priority

Hardin-Jefferson was the bright light in this story. Not wanting to take a cheap win......they agreed to play later in the season. That was a classy move. They could have taken the forfeit that WOS was handing them....... but they showed class and agreed to rescedule. They didn't have to. They really didn't need to. WOS could and should have done both that Friday night!

Commitment - Priority

I feel for the coach.

I do too Kramer! AND the other players too! They only needed 5 or 6 more girls to play.



That's probably not true. They would probably have a somewhat weaker.....more committed Varsity and no JV.......



ROTFL ..........for a bored individual........you sure got a lot of opinions.

Colmesneilfan1.......

You better hope your defense don't show this kind of commitment tomorrow night....ROTFL.
Something tells me you wouldn't be as understanding......ROTFL

Go Bulldogs!

lol...it's Six-Weeks Test Week....I am very bored......The defense is ready.....thanks for the support.....

My daughter called from college last night.......she told me she's got all A's and B's........ROTFL
I thinks its more like all B's and a couple of A's after talking to the wife.

Good for her.....

As a coach, since cheer and drill team is not a UIL event on Friday nights during football season in Texas, I would have to say to that group of girls that VOLLEYBALL comes first. I would be straight with them from the beginning of the season in order to let them, and their parents, know that the volleyball games would be expected to come first. On the same note, I am sure that there are more than a few volleyball players (in the playoffs) that run Cross Country and have regional meets this Saturday. I know from experience that that is a nightmare to schedule around. IMO if a young lady can handle all of these acitivities, and still keep her grades up, she should be allowed to shine and coaches will just try their best to lessen scheduling conflicts.

first off... my apologies to Colmesneilfan1 for calling you a donkey. As an admin, you deserve more respect.

secondly... sounds like there was just no commitment from the girls at all. Looks like both schools tried there best to accomadate both teams to no avail.



have to agree with wohs80... since what they were missing the game for was not a UIL event, someone should have explained to them the definition of commitment, priority, and perhaps consequences.



My daughter faces this problem every spring, juggling softball, track, and golf. The golf coach would drive her straight to the softball game from the golf course. Last year, she only missed one game due to a tourn. running over. She was district champ in golf, but regrets missing that one softball game because she feels she let her teammates down. We'll see what happens this spring...