But we "Leaders" want to remain rich and not have any consequences Just like Russia, the poor stayed poor and the leaders taxed the heck out of them, and the leaders lived in the Czars castles. The liberals have the poor so convinced, that they buy into anything

If you attack Russia refer to it as either Stalinism, or Leninism. True socialism creates a larger middle class.

^ Examples? Of course you will only be a state employee in your socialist surf shop.

Haha no examples but I assume you are speaking of the original doctrine created by Marx. According to Marx, the author of the communist manifesto, the proletariat will overthrow the bourgeoisie, and there will be a true government for the people by the people. Unfortunately, this document has been perverted and associated with the nasty evil of Stalin, Lenin, and Mao. Mao took the term cultural revolution and everyone with any power got sent to labor camps. I am a capitalist by all means, I just happen to think that the idea of the lower classes overthrowing the upper class is romantic. It is interesting in the 60's every time a communist regime went into power they were instantly corrupted, and could not stick to the ideals that propelled them into revolution. That is why Guevara left Castro in Cuba.

So to make a long story short. True socialism would create a larger middle class, because the government would supply jobs for the people at a wage they could live on. Pretty good idea right? Unfortunately, history as not shown this not to be the case. Socialism in itself is not an evil thing, but what the aforementioned men did with the theory was evil.

The different political philosophies seem to be ideals, working on the hope that humanity will not destroy it with greed, or lust for power. Communism is brilliant on paper (though stripping away some individuality, in my opinion), and capitalism is quite exciting when described, socialism, all that. It's very paradoxical the way no system can work smoothly as long as people behave as they do. We need an enlightenment of human consciousness, or a second Renaissance.

Is that why they are still dirt poor in Cuba ?

Have you read "Das Kapital" ? It is one of the worst ideaologies ever written. It speaks of Hope, that Clinton tried to enact, and what BHO thinks will insure his legacy. You will not find a rags to riches story with socialism. It will never happen, because the individual is the enemy, it is the state. The State will tell you what you will do. The State will deprive you of your individuality, and determine what is best for the State.

You seem to be a creative type of person, how would you like for your creativeness to be reduced to going to prison ? I suggest that you look up Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn. Is that what you desire for our nation to become ?

You see, I have seen exactly what socialism has done to human beings, and I do not desire to see it repeated. Unlike this new generation, that doesn't realize what it takes to make a dime. America has become a nation of handouts and give me's. With a socialist government, you would wipe out the independent thought of those that desired to speak out against the government.

Is that what you seek ?

Here's a little history for you, Jeff Spicoli.

The first settlement here in America, the Plymouth colony, was a socialist community. It failed spectacularly due to the lack of motivation to work. The citizens nearly starved to death the first year, and the socialist system was scrapped in favor of a new system - capitalism with ownership of private property. That system has worked for the last 389 years.

You need to ease on over to Cuba and stay a while. Try out some of that socialism. You can have fun driving around in your 1951 Packard trying to scrape together enough money to eat for one more day. I'll be over here in my warm house enjoying the fruits of MY labor.

From another thread: The merchant class is the first to go, unless you have relatives in the govt. So long surf shop.

You are missing the sentences in my posts that say 1) I am a capitalist 2) Unfortunately this has been shown not to be the case. That means that I am saying socialism doesn't work. Noble idea, but not practical in the real world.

What is different from then to today ?

Nothing that is why I said socialism is not practical.

Che was a horrable person, he killed lots of people and destroyed many lives while preaching his ideals. Why anyone would have a man crush on him or call him a romantic is beond me?
Lovers of Che (bad government) shows that they have
1) no discernment skills,
2) are to lazy to work
3) believe whatever they are told
4) truely believe that revolution is the answer to counter all the worlds prosperity ,in which millions of people would die, so that they set up thier own tolterian government , and how that will be better then what we got I do not know.
5) Have been brianwashed by liberalism/progressive teachings that tickle the ears but kill the soul.

Surfsup, lay off the mary jane when your hanging 10. Say what you want but when you have pics of Che Gueverra on your aviator you are not a capitalist, and thier is nothing noble about socialism.

^ Notice he has a fine cigar, while the poor couldnt afford to smoke. Just like nancy Pelosi will have the finest of Doctors, if any are left, while we go to government employees.

Che was a revolutionist who fought a revolution. In war people die, and families are destroyed. No different than the many lives who have been affected during our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, with us teaching our values.

When Che was in med school he took a motorcycle ride through his continent and saw how the American companies exploited the native population. He worked at a leper colony for months before dropping out of med school one semester shy of graduation so he could be a revolutionist and stop what he perceived as oppression.

After the revolution he saw that Fidel was not living up to their ideals, so he split and led revolutions all over the world before being captured and executed in Bolivia.

He landed in Cuba with 40 guerrillas, and won.

His last words were "I know you've come to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man."

I like him because he was true to his convictions, and was true to himself all the way up until his death. You can twist things however you want, belittle me, or whatever makes you feel good. To me he is a symbol of protest, and reminds me that some change is always necessary to make the world a better place.

You are apparently a big man, and get your jollies off belittling others while staying behindyour veil of anonymity. I'll bet your mother is proud of you.

6'6 236 kinda broad at the shoulders and narrow at the hips. And I belitlle all things "workers of the world unite" revolutionist.

Plus I do not see how it is American corporations fault that lepers were being mis-treated in South America. I mean the guy rides all over a continent and sees people down on thier luck and I wanna say this was in 1951 correct? I mean the USA just got out of a depression and a war not 6 years earlier. Che was almost a doctor (those guys never actually help people or do any good ) and instead probally hurt a lot of the disadvataged people he could have helped as a doctor. The dude was a killer.

lol. He saw the oppressed while he was on his way to a leper colony.

I have not said anything about "workers of the world unite," I have repeatedly stated on here that socialism is not practical for the real world, yet you keep calling me a socialist.

6'1" proud American.

Perhaps someday your IQ will catch up with your height.

That was over the line but you called me retarded.lol

Before this thread gets out of hand, please refresh yourselves with the Adjustments, revisions and clarifications to the "Wide-Open Policy" thread.

Particularly:

The content of a member's post is WIDE OPEN to ridicule -- the member is not.




Okay? Good. You may now return to your stubborn alpha male battle of wits!

I've enjoyed some of the things that Subcomandante Marcos has said, and he is very similar to Che Guevara. If you look at both of them, they have led similar lives. Mexico has always been a corrupt country, and it's become even bigger with the drug dealers. Subcomandante Marcos is a very intelligent man, and he wavers between capitalism and socialism.

I know that I love democracy. As I've become older, I've realized how people are swayed by emotion and the moment. It's similar to what a person does with first aid, they treat the bleeding first, and don't look at a potential underlying problem. I think that's how people relate to politics and social issues. We hear of horrible stories, and over react sometimes. We don't solve the underlying problems, that plague our societies.

I have read the various versions of man's attempts to create utopia's. I have read the various versions of economic policies that can be enacted to help people become better. I don't have a solution to the dilemma. I wish that I did, and we could solve the world's problems.

As I've said, it's always the middle class that carries the burden of the rich and the poor. BHO is resorting to the same well, that many societies have always went to the working man. We've been out their busting our rear, and they keep coming to us, because we are the largest group of individuals that can support the rich and the poor. That's discriminatory on many fronts. I just want to be free, with less taxes, and less government intervention.