If I remember correctly, Clay was fixing to get drafted. He said he was against the war for religious reasons and changed his name to Mohammed Ali and therefore couldnt kill or be around anyone who would. My, my, the religion of peace has morphed? Is the present day terrorism within the Muslim relgion, more of facisim than religion?

Sure isnt religion.

He was a coward, saw dollar bills instead... and instead of killing people... just reverted to beating them to a pulp, and was a media hound dog...

Speaking of hound dogs---Elvis did his Army service!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that's very true, he did. And even made some movies while over there, didn't he? Or just made to look that way?

Elvis came from different stock than Ali...

Your memory has slipped. Muhammad Ali had joined the muslim faith in 1964, when he was influenced by Malcolm X. That was 40 years ago, and his choice to become a muslim was based on how he felt as a young man. I don't blame Muhammad for feeling the way that he did. Racism was big in the South at that time. He was a young man, and he had choices to make.

Personally, I don't feel like any celebrity should drafted by the Selective Service. The only two that I can think of that made a difference in warfare were General Jimmy Stewart and Captain Ted Williams. The rest were entertainers, or they were used to boost morale with the troops. Isn't that what the U.S.O. is for ? Ted Williams even tried to get out of being drafted, if you'll look the history up.

I'll defend Muhammad Ali, because he didn't need to be over in Vietnam. The only thing that his serving in the Armed Forces would have done, was be a morale booster. I'll agree Muhammad was a pugilist, and fighting is what he knew. Let's listen to Muhammad in his own words : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eLrJMb6wpk Come on, look at Joe Luis, and how he was done wrong in WW II.

Ya'll want to bring up Elvis...What was he doing in Germany with a 14 year old girl naked together in bed ???? I realize that they were married in Vegas 7 years later, but is that how you desire to hold up your standards ?

Clay could have gone in. He wouldnt have gone to Nam.

Dave, OldSchool and I weren't putting Elvis up on that pedastal... I assure you....truthfully, I've never quite figured out why her parents let her do that... I have my suspicions, but...

As far as entertainers going in to the military... if they're called to go, they need to go; if they want to enlist, then fine. They're Americans first; entertaining is their job.

^ Thanks. No one is perfect. We in this country now point out everyone elses weaknesses when confronted. It is the way America fights these days. I attribute it to lawyers trying to get clients off, and our society has picked up on it.

Most entertainers are not like Audie Murphy. Most are elitist!

Cause Audie was not an actor BEFORE his life was made into a movie

All under the guise of Islam.

My oldest brother served in Vietnam. I still remember the day that we greeted him when he came home. He doesn't like Jane Fonda, but he never had a problem with Muhammad Ali. Maybe, that's why I like Muhammad, but people like you want to make a mountain out of a molehill with why Muhammad desired not to go to war against Vietnam. When he got back from Vietnam in 1972 we would watch the fights together. That endears me to my brother, for those times that we spent together watching the matches, and him teaching me to play various sports. If a Vietnam Veteran like my brother can forgive and forget what Muhammad Ali did, why can't you ? He still hates Jane Fonda and Lt. Calley. I understand Jane, but not Lt. Calley. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXNsXIxBkqs

Muhammad gave up the prime of his career, to take a stand. I wasn't raised to be a racist, but blacks were treated differently than they are now. I understand that. I think we should be over the race issue by now, but we still aren't. I'm not going to condem Muhammad for his choices in 1966. I've seen what he's done over time with his life, and he is a good man regardless of his faith. I realize he's not going to have fans.

But this thing is for sure, Ali gave up the prime of his career to stand against a war he didn't believe in, and he had the freedom to buck the system. He didn't make any $$$, for taking his stance.

Yet George Foreman came along and could be seen waving the flag. Clay could have done that--have you ever seen tapes of his arrogance?

Plus Clay became the darling of Howard Cosell

Yep, sure have. Although Ali may have been a great boxer, as an American, he was pathetic...

Foreman could have served in the military as well. Why didn't he ? Why wasn't Foreman, Joe Frazier, or Ken Norton, Sr. drafted ? Nobody talks about them, and they were all eligible to be drafted. Why were they treated differently than Muhammad Ali ? Cassius Clay, Jr. won his gold in Rome, that didn't mean anything. Muhammad Ali is who he is, and he helped knock down many walls of racism, by his stance. 40 years later the bricks are going back up. That's really sad, and I'm seeing it from both sides of the American fence.

Ali wasn't arrogant, he was only upset with the arrogance of others, and the way he was treated. I respect Muhammad Ali in more ways than one. I realize that his fight wasn't to serve in the military, but he had a greater fight to accomplish. I hope it wasn't in vain.

I didn't live through the times of segregation. I've heard about them, and there was a lot of nonsense going on. I'm not going to cling to those days when people looked upon another race in disdain. I could rip LBJ for allowing Ali to be brought before a court of law, and it would be appropriate. Muhammad Ali wasn't on Richard Nixon's enemy list, but Joe Namath, Paul Newman, Jane Fonda, and John Lennon were. That's the era you're trying to bring up.

Ali spoke his mind, and that's Freedom. He woke up my generation to how stupid racism is, now I'm sitting here being called a racist because I don't follow BHO and the Democratic Party. I suppose I'm on BHO's enemy list. I still won't back down about Ali.

Ali was a poor sport and a lot of our problems today in sportsmanship can be traced to him and his arrogance, but he had is moment in the sun and that probabbly had alot more to do with his non-service then anything else. Of course now he shadow boxes by himself becuase of parkinson diesies. Turn about is fair play I guess.

Jerry Quarry has been dead for 10 years, and he was born in 1945, 3 years after Ali. Jerry didn't serve in the military either, hmmm ??? I suppose that's poetic justice as well. How was Ali a poor sport ? He had a desire to win, and he came back fighting harder. Frazier broke his jaw, and he spent weeks in the hospital. He didn't whine and moan, he came back and down goes Frazier, down goes Frazier.

Take a look at Joe Louis, and what he paid: http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=22. Ali paid the same amounts with his purses, thanks to Democrats. Ya'll just want to complain that Ali didn't put in his service in the military. Well most boxers in that era didn't serve in the military. Ali was come down on by the Democrats in office, because he was bucking their good ole boy system. Democrats did the same thing to Joe Louis, and look how the tide has turned.

Did Ali go around telling people about islam ? Do he try to convert the nation to his faith ? He wanted things right for him, do you know why Muhammad Ali took up boxing ? I love Muhammad Ali, He is the Greatest Boxer of All Time. I don't care if he is a muslim. He is an honorable man that stood up for what he believes in. That is what Freedom is about, we may not all agree with each other, but under our current Constitution we all have that right.

To me Freedom is freedom for everyone, not just your beliefs, but for all beliefs. Civility is a seperate issue. You see I don't expect anyone to believe what I believe, and I will never tell anyone to believe as I do. If I want to be told what to do, I'll go live in China, North Korea, Iran, or Haiti.

[quote name='DaveTV1' date='Nov 14 2009, 10:02 PM' post='1275489']
How was Ali a poor sport ? Dave you gotta be kidding me?



=/quote]

He hated losing, is that a poor sport ? Show me anywhere that Ali was a poor sport. Frazier jumped Ali in Philadelphia, and they were friends, before that. Ali simply jumped out of the car, and the people loved him. Show me where Ali bit the ear off of anyone. Why was Ali a poor sport in promoting Boxing ? Frazier cheered when Norton broke Ali's jaw, so who is the poor sport ?

I suppose that you need to go and be a music director. JV Coach, I respect you a lot, but how was Ali not a fair opponent ? He didn't hit below the waist, he didn't win on kidney punches, he did do the Ali shuffle, and the Rope-a-dope, but you're calling him a poor sport, for saying he was the Greatest ? He knew he could whip anyone in the ring, because he had confidence in himself. He came back for more, and that is why Ali is the Greatest boxer of all time.

I suppose that we need life handed to us, because we're too weak as a people do anything for ourselves.

I believe this is it.

This is exactly what America is about, however. We are not here to act like sheep, and be told what to do and when to do it. Some say that we're not patriotic for supporting our current government. It works both ways. That's what freedom is about.

I've never met Muhammad Ali, and I wish I had. Behind his brash exterior is a caring person. He was strong enough to take a stand, and I respect that. He has never been a highly political person. I have no problems with George W. Bush giving him the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2005. Why didn't Bill Clinton do that ?

Ali had his convictions, and he took a huge monetary loss by the actions that he did. He didn't go to Vietnam, and try to drum up a response as Hanoi Jane did. That wasn't Ali's fight, he was tired of being kicked around, and he took an American stance to it.

I think that we as Americans are in the same situation today, with our current government. It's a catch-22. Ali didn't ask anyone to join him in his fight, he took the whole burden on his shoulders. We're asking others to join us in our fight against taxation. Ali didn't run and hide in Canada or England, and he could have. Jimmy Carter would have pardoned him.

Do I think people have the right to refuse induction by the draft ? Yes, if they feel that it is against their convictions. If they already signed up to serve in the military, then no. Perhaps Muhammad Ali's greatest gift to America is that there won't be another draft into the military. Some people can handle the military life, and there are others that can't. The military isn't for everyone. I don't think Ali would have beneficial, if he had accepted his draft. It was best that he didn't serve in the military, because he wouldn't have helped the morale of the troops. Ali was outspoken, and he spoke his mind from the hip. He didn't pull any punches, and L.B.J. and his cronies thought they could shut him up, by forcing him into the military. They wanted to make an example out of Ali, and their thoughts backfired.

40 years later, people want to say Ali was anti-American. Pssshh, Ali was tired of being shoved around by elitists, and he stood up to oppression for many Americans.

We could have won the war in Vietnam, and we could win the war in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. It would take many innocent lives, but all the wars after WWII could easily have been won. It wasn't Ali's personal choice not to serve that lost Vietnam.