Saw the Longview Lobo band last night in Mesquite. AWESOME!!!! One of the best military bands I have seen in many years. I hate the fact that Metroplex schools have all gone corp. The music sucks in my opinion. The football field is not the place to try and put on a Broadway production that most fans don't understand to begin with. Give me military and precision any day!!!!! And another thing, why do the corp bands not play any marches, at least one or two while in the stands.

What's wrong with bringing a Broadway production by a corp band on the field? It's a different form of art. In my opinion, fans can relate better to corp bands because the "performance" is strengthened by the color guard and some meaningful formations (although many abstract) by the band. With military bands, fans just get the music. Although I've never seen an outstanding military band, I can guarantee that corp bands have to be just as precise.

By the way, Canton plays March Grandioso in the stands

Good for Canton!! Maybe you should venture to Tyler on Thursday night and check out an awesome marching display by the Lobo band. And, for your information, fans get much more than music from a military performance. Just ask the Mesquite Horn fans who were amazed by the Longview drill. As a Horn band mom who sat next to me said, "This is pure pagentry!".

The Lobo Band truly has been amazing this year. There is just something about a military marching band and football games. It's sad that East Texas is about the only area in America where military bands remain. Fans in other parts of Texas and Louisiana enjoy the Lobo Band performances because they never see anything like it.

Somehow, corps band halftime themes of "A Salute to Global Warming" or "Celebrating the Color Orange" just seem out of place at a high school football game. Give me a military band every time. That said, let me say how much I appreciate the time and effort put in by military AND corps band members and directors. The bands (military AND corps) add a lot to the unique experience that is Texas High School football.

By the way, congratulations again for the Lobo Band's 58TH CONSECUTIVE first division in UIL marching competition. That is a remarkable streak.

You wouldn't begin to understand the pride and discipline it takes to march true precision military. Go to NAMMB someday and you can experience that when someone like Kingwood takes the field. BTW March Grandioso isn't really that great of a march.

Why does'nt the Lobo Band ever come to NAMMB? I bet Kingwood would like to have some competition from either Longview or Lufkin or both! long way to travel without any competition. what ya say?

oh wow. i have a lot to say about this. ok as for the marching goes..i have seem some GREAT military bands and yes when they are marching on the field it is hard to get into the whole "lets march around in blocks" but a great military band will leave you speechless with their music. i have marched both miliary and corps in high school (i switched schools when i was in HS..and i just graduated in 07) and i know how much time and dedication that the military bands put into their efforts..i have high respect for the great military bands out there..and as go for the corps band..i personally think marching corps is SOOOO much harder. EVERYTHING matters..you do not have a set spot, you have to go by periferial (sp?) vision..and even if you have gotten to that one spot EVERY single time before, if the person beside you messes up OH WELL! you have to make them look like they did not mess up. in corps it is 8 steps to each yard line and in military it is 6. in corps you have to adjust each step (ex: you may have 40 counts to go 2 feet in front of you..BUT YOU BETTER BE IN LINE WITH THE OTHERS!..not as easy as it sounds) and for military you take the same size steps everywhere..not so hard (granted you do have all those different kinds of turns that can take some time to get down) and with corps the sound is spread out because you are not so close together and you have to listen and judge and make sure you are with the other people. ( i could keep going on and on about the differences) but i preper corps bands..and as for why do they not play marches in the stands...why? you are trying to motivate the football players and most football players DO NOT want to hear marches it doesn't get them ""crunk"" . Now as for the fans..they might want to hear the band play a march but as for the football players..no..most likely not. Do not get me wrong..I like marches..just not something that I would really want to hear in the stands as the game is going on. Sorry this is so long. . .and i do have respect for both styles of marching..and it looks as if i have a different opinion then everybody else who replied to this post.

Yeah, 6 steps to a yardline seems easy. But there is also the little problem of everyone hitting the yardline with the same part of the foot. That is one of the most difficult things to do, developing a step size. Also, everyone has to be uniform in how they turn. Countermarches, be it left or right, must be at the same tempo and the same time. That is what is on the marching competition judging sheet as "uniformity of movement". If the band has some people snapping countermarches and flanks and to-the-rears, and others just slopping through it, the band looks out of sync. That is why military is so hard. Marchingwise anyways.

I have been a regular at regional and area marching competitions for years and I have seen my share of corp bands receive 1st division ratings where kids are out of step, intervals vary, flags are not together. There is so much going on that it is hard for a judge to see all the mistakes. Let a kid be out of step in a military performance or the intervals be off and it sticks out like a sore thumb. That is why I say that military is more disciplined and difficult than corp.

I have to add to this thread! My son has marched both corps and military. He is in the Texas Tech Band and they do both also. He says for the actual individual marching, military is easier except that you absolutely cannot mess up. Corps is harder to learn, but if you mess up it is usually not noticed. I myself, perfer military. I love to watch Lindale and Longview and what they do. It is really really difficult to march with 170-200 kids on the field and keep them in step. Notice that military bands wear white shoes, there is a reason for this. Watch their feet, if they are in step it is one of the most AMAZING sights ever! wow! I really like the way that Lindale, especially will incorporate alot of 'out of the box' marching into their military drill. Some call it 'soft corps'. I call it really great! Longview is known throughout the state of Texas as one of the largest and best bands ever. 58 consecutive superior ratings! Lindale has 33 and that is amazing too!

To answer pitt75, the Lobo Band used to compete at NAMMB every year. Both of our children were in the band and it was a wonderful competition at Texas A&M every year. The atmosphere was something else ... 10,000 folks in the Kyle Field stands and military bands all day.

It became apparent that Kingwood was favored year after year by the judges. Don't misunderstand. Kingwood is an amazing program and one of the best bands I've ever seen. However, there was a feeling that Kingwood would win even before any marching had taken place. One year at A&M Longview clearly performed better (even Kingwood people said so) ... and still Kingwood won. I think after a while LHS decided it wasn't worth the effort because the outcome was already decided.

Again, let me emphasize that the Kingwood band is super. It's a tremendous program and deserves all the praise it receives. And bless the NAMMB for giving military bands such a fine competition.

By the way, I noticed that Kingwood was the only 5A varsity band that even marched in NAMMB this year. That ought to tell the NAMMB people something.

yepppp 100% agree

yes..i do agree. making everybody hit their foot on the same spot on the yard line is HARD!! and SOOO frustrating! even some of the best of 'em out there still cannot get EVERY person out there to do that. i personally think brownsboro is a fine military marching band..not the GREATEST but it is NOT poor either and the thing that gets me the most aggrivated is i will see half of them hit it with the middle of their foot..then some do the tip toe and then some do the heel..WHHHY!!!? why cant they just get it right! lol. (not ragging on brownsboro for any means..i just used them as an example because they are the military band that i have seen the most of) but it is difficult because of the size of your step..everybody has different step size..some people have such short legs that it is hard for them to keep up.so i understand that part completely!

Van has always been military, but their numbers have been going down. They have been Sweepstakes since 1972. There was a long winning streak before that, too, but I think they got a II in 1971 to break the tradition. A military band looks much better if it has lots of members. The director turnover in Van for a few years really hit the band hard. Last year, several members of a very good drum line quit and several of their friends that played other instruments quit, too. With a very good assistant to help the director, I'm hoping the numbers will pick up and it will become as good or better than it was in the past. I believe the asst. director was a member of the VHS band that won the NAMMB thing in the 90's. I remember when everyone had to wear the same shoes, all the girls' hair had to be pinned up beneath the hats, you got halftime off, and had to be back in the stands with 6 minutes to go in the third quarter. You actually played music in the stands and the twirlers twirled. Becoming a majorette at the school was as hard as becoming a cheerleader. You had to know fundamentals and you tried out without music and it had to be a military routine. If you had a drop during halftime or at the pep rally, you sat out the next pep rally. Believe me, PomPom Moms don't have a thing on Majorette Moms. The band marched military formations entering and leaving the routine. Once the band was down on the sidelines, all attention was directed to the DM. Now, it seems most bands allow their kids to fall out the minute they're through. We also have kids running around during the game, before and after halftime. I know I'm old-fashioned, but I liked the military attitude of the Old School directors. Van had a playoff game about 4 years ago, and half the band members didn't bother to show up. Oh, well, here's hoping we'll have more members next year.

As a football spectator, when I see a military marching band, I'm thinking, "what the heck is this band doing?" The average football fan prefers corps-style marching to military simply because the shows have more variety, period. That's just what the fans want to see.

As a band member, I do somewhat empathize with the military bands. No, it isn't easy to do what they do, but wouldn't everyone be in band if it were easy to do? Corps bands have it just as tough as military, if not tougher. You don't exactly have to use your peripheral vision in military style (6-to-5 all the time), and more often than not, bands will play the same music year (I know for a fact New Boston, and i think several others in the area do as well). I've also never seen a military band do a tempo change or march any faster than 120, something that corps bands invariably do. Maybe that's why there was only one military at 3A state last year.

I do, however, like seeing military bands like Pittsburg and Lindale that are simply amazing at what they do. I have never seen Longview's band, but I don't have to, as their 58 straight I's speak for themselves. Congratulations on such a long streak.

I disagree that military bands don't have to use peripheral vision. We did a block rotation this year, and the biggest problem we had was the diagonal alignment. Our band director stressed peripheral vision everyday. Also, not everyone has a perfect 6 to 5 stride. That is where a smart marcher will use peripheral vision to stay in line left to right.

As a former band member, football player and current fan, I have to say that military is where it's at. Nothing is as awesome as a finely tuned military band. On the other hand, nothing bores me to tears more than a corps band. Their music is usually slow and dragging. When I'm at a game where corps bands march, that is the time that I use to go to the bathroom. I know that's harsh, but it's the way I feel.

Whoa whoa whoa! Corps bands music is slow and dragging? Most corps bands march three fourths of their show at tempos between 140-170 beats per minute whereas military is usually constricted to about 116-132 beats per minute the entire show. Not to say their music is dragging either though, I've heard some tough licks at these tempos for military bands.

The music is very different between corps and military, but equally difficult. I have heard recordings of corp bands playing parts of Symphonic Metamorphisis by Hindemith(these are high school bands, mind you). Also, military bands have it tough with marches such as The Purple Pageant and Cyrus the Great, Chicago World Fair, Invictus, and Boys of the Old Brigade, just to name a few.

I am proud to be part of the best military marching band in texas. It's a shame that we really have no competition, military speaking. Lufkin just kinda abandoned their military style to more of a mix of military/corp. What I don't understand is why we go to some competition held in Mesquite where we are automatically disqualified for not having flags. I think we have stopped going though...

Take it all the way, Class of 08!!

Maybe Longview needs to try NAMMB next year! Since you say they don't have any competition, miltary speaking. any other E. Texas bands march military? If they do, maybe they can try too!

Sounds good to me...too bad it's my last year @ LHS

If they did go to NAMMB they would get marched all over by Kingwood.

Let me clear up my last post, it's not that Kingwood is better, but it's more the politics of the contest. The judges have their picks before they ever see a band.

You can't honestly be serious, can you? There is a reason why Kingwood, and soon Atascocita, beat Longview...and it doesn't have to do with politics. IF politics WERE the reason then Longview would win.

It is because Kingwood plays CIRCLES around Longview. Their execution of music far exceeds that of Longview. Many young minds, including yourself, get caught up and distracted by the overblown sounds that LHS makes. Just b/c they play loud doesn't mean they are better than Kingwood. If LHS would back off their volume and play more concervatively they would have a better shot at not only beating Kingwood but also placing respectively at Area Marching Contest.

You and that lil arrogant boy RockingEl are gonna get your panties in a wad but as a judge that is what I would be paying attention to....Longview's "in your face" style does not impress me...they don't have the players to pull that off and thusly it sounds nasty most of the time.

So, you would rather have a band that plays like a core band?? Military is supposed to be an in your face show. This new style of military where no one pops a turn and everyone plays cautiously is garbage. The only time a march is supposed to be "quiet" is during the trio, and never anywhere else. And i have heard many bands where the players weren't the most talented, but they worked their butts off, and I would take them any day over a band full of talented musicians who just go thru the motions, because they are more musically inclined than others.

Now, I agree that longview isn't the greatest military band in Texas, but they do have a pretty impressive streak of consecutive ones at marching contest. Give them props where props are due.

First of all, it is CORPS...not core. Have you ever seen or heard any of the US Armed Forces play "in your face"? Maybe it is you with the misconception of how things "are suppose to be".

IF that is what you think a military band is suppose to sound like then you have no clue what musicality is.

sooo... how bout them cowboys?

Also, since when does playing musically apply exlusively to corps bands???? PLUS, I GAURANTEE that there are some corps band who can play "in your face"...I know b/c last year at the 5A state marching contest I heard them. They can play musically in tune, with balance and they can also blow your hair back...but when they do it they do not lose characteristic sounds nor do they sound nasty when they do it.

Sorry to have started a giant argument, but since you are continuing let me get in on it. Mr. Rudiment were do you judge? Do you judge at NAMMB? No person that marches in a military marching band knows the correct spelling of CORPS or Core or whatever. Now I agree with black and gold when he says that it should be in your face all the time that is what it's all about and also Mr. Rudiment how do you know that I have a young mind?

Go back and re-read what I wrote...I didn't say I judged...I said if I were a judge THAT is one of the things that I would be listening to and would offend me. And apparently playing nasty and in your face isn't doing anything to get Longview above, or past, the Region level. At area marching contest and at the area honor band taping.

And that is plain silly about "anyone who marches military doesn't know how to spell corps."...do you know how backwards a$$ redneck that sounds? And yes, I grew up in East Texas and marched in a military style band and did corps. in college so don't try and tell me I have only been on one side of the fence.

And playing loud and in your face is NOT what it is all about...there goes that same close minded thinking again. It is about precision. Excecuting a march with the correct style. Marching with uniformity...whether it be a snappy motion or a fluid motion...it needs to be done the SAME by every person in the band. If you actually look around you will find many variations on the military marching band. Longview does their halt differently. Pittsburg does a stomp. Some bands do a drag halt. Uniformity, Precision and The March is what a military marching band is about. NOT sounding like you just threw up in your instrument.

And if you aren't young minded then don't make it so obvious that you are. I hope you aren't a band director or have the ability to infect any students of music with your close minded views.

Lastly this wasn't suppose to turn into a bash Longview thread. Someone tried to imply that Longview gets robbed at NAMMB and at Area...which couldn't be further from the truth.

Uhh, last time I checked, military is about war, and that is exactly what a march sounds like. Use your ear, its a battle. Gah. And originally, marches were meant to spur our men on to victory, to get them in the mood to kill someone, not snuggle. Save musicality for concert season. There is a fine line between overblow, and nasty. You are insinuating that any band who has an overblow sound is nasty.

And I really don't need another english teacher, I already have one.

It does for marching season. Once again, the only time a military band should play, as you say, "musically", is on the trio. That doesn't mean not to use dynamics where they are written. But, yes, military is supposed to be brash and in your face.

Oh, and trust me, I have friends in CORPS bands who play in your face. Some of them happen to be college bands.

So, tell me, what is a military band supposed to sound like?? Nice, well blended sounds thru the whole show??? No. Save the well blended sounds for the concert stage. Military bands are supposed to be bottom heavy. Lots of low brass, and woodwinds for color every once in a while. Marches are also a feature for different sections of the band at different times. I wonder who the march Them Basses was written for?? It couldn't be the low brass section. Not a chance. Or the obbligato (sp, since we are going to get technical) of, lets say, The Crosley March. Couldn't be a clarinet section feature.

You're hopeless. And I am not insinuating that ANYONE who overblows sounds nasty...some bands have the ability to play loudly without throwing up in their instrument. And don't try and tell me about the history of marches nor how to play them. I gaurantee I have played more than you will in your lifetime.

Clearly, you are not a musician if you think playing musically is only meant for concert season. And god help your kids if you're a music educator.

You may not need another english teacher but you could sure use a few lessons in marching band and it's place and evolution into the public schools.

You're trying way too hard to carry on a conversation above your level.

Stop the fighting....I can't take all the fighting lol...

I am not a musician?? Well, I just asked all of the all-staters in my band, including myself, and they all seemed to agree with me. And I really don't think that you have played more marches than me. I play them every year for marching season, so trust me, I know what marches are supposed to sound like. Evolution?? If this horrible mess that we call corps where all the band does is wander around aimlessly for six minutes is the evolution of marching band in the public schools, then we are going down the tubes a lot faster than I thought.

And I just got another great thought from one of my friends in band. Everything in the marching drill needs to be overdone for a military band. Snapping a good countermarch, sitting down on a pickup note into the second strain. That is what good bands do, and if I am stuck in a time warp, so what.

Are you insinuating that since I can give you a couple of good examples of marches, that I am stupid. Wow, talk about head in the stand.

Well, you can tell your little friends that making all-state hardly makes you a musician. I've known some musically untalented people who work harder and practice longer than people with a gift for music that make all-state. Also, do you really need the assistance of your friends in this banter?

And boy or girl, at the expense of sounding childish, I have played more marches than you have. Did military in h.s. Played them in community bands. Played them in college. All different forms, composers and styles. American. Brittish. German.

And what is with this hatred for corps. bands? Wandering around? Mess? Is this what your argument is really about? Way to be open minded and foward thinking like the quotes in your signature suggest you to be...LOL!!!

And to reply to your second post. I didn't say you were stupid. You did. I just found it humerous that after implying that you were a high school kid you tried to raise the maturity level of your posts...and also enlisting the help of your buddies.

It is obvious that you are going to have your opinion about how a military band should sound and march...it is either one way or the highway with you. Wrong. Within the realm of military marching bands lay different variants. It isn't blow your a$$ the entire time...you contradicted yourself by saying that "a military marching band is loud and in your face the entire time!!!....except the trio....or...when the music calls for a change in dynamics" WELL WHICH IS IT?

Funny how this thread started out as some Longview kid proclaiming that LHS was THE greatest military band in all of NAMMBingdom and East Texasingdom. Then turned into how they get robbed by Kingwood and the "political" judges. To me interjecting to set them straight as to the REAL reason why Kingwood beats them...which is their playing ability and ability to play full without getting nasty...to you and that other guy being offended that there is such a thing as PLAYING TOO LOUD?!?!?! Well, I never! Which then lead to a subthread about corps. versus military simply b/c I told you the correct way to spell "corps"...from there on you assumed that I was some corps guy with no knowledge of military styles or marches.

Talk about evolution...

I will agree that this thread has gotten a little out of hand. I took offense to, as I read it, you saying that military bands that have an overblow sound are nasty sounding. Partially because I happen to be in a military band whose director calls for overblow low brass 95 percent of the time. And, as you said, at the risk of sounding childish, since you apparently played marches for a long time, have you ever been told that the trio section, right before the break strain, is a change of texture and sound. This is where you can be "musical". And there can also be a change in dynamics even when you are playing loud.

And I never assumed that you were a corps guy. I assumed, and yes, I will admit that I assumed, that you thought that if a military band that has an overblow sound is wrong. And, I don't hate all corps bands. I hate the ones whose drill loooks like someone lost their puppy and everyone is looking for it. I am going to a college that is partially corps, or as the true name is , show band. And the reason I have the my way or highway approach is because that is how my band director is, and it works with students.

Wow these posts have gotten out of hand. Suffice it so say that Longview and Kingwood have different styles but are both great military marching bands. Military bands don't necessarily have to play loudly to be good. However, Longview has adopted their particular military style which works for them. Kingwood, on the other hand, plays a very controlled, smooth military style. (You should see Kingwood march - they have a very graceful style of march which is really cool.) My hats off to both of their programs.

Kingwood did not attend NAMMB this year. I was there, they were not. Of course, that was mentioned on page one or two of this thread. But I just thought I would throw that in there.

........the average football fan prefers corps-style................speak for your self and not everyone else.

Many, not all, but many of these directors try and do some exotic production where we are suppose to understand the movements relating to some concept of art interpretation............To heavy, all the stuff going on here and there and over there...........It is just a cover for out of step marching.

Just march, we don't need some celestial journey.

An interesting observation...

So sorry...I fell asleep reading this thread...

Same argument...different verse...