3rd -Canton

2nd -Rio Homdo

1st -Argyle

any of them military?

No. The only band that was military in the finals was New Boston.

1-Argyle
2-Rio Hondo
3-Canton
4-Princeton
5-Atlanta
6-New Boston (military)
7-Burnet

State panels are Corps oriented...a military band doesn't have much of a chance at winning state..racist UIL!

haha lol. the big challenge for military bands is to find creative ways to score points without sacrificing traditional military style

How is race involved???

These are the Judges listed. Can anyone provide information as to their background?
(Military or Corps style)

AAA Prelims :
Music
Phillip Clements - Texas A&M University-Commerce
Gordon Henderson - UCLA
Ike Nail - Western Oregon University
Marching
Keith Bearden - Texas Tech University-Emeritus
Gregory Dick - Friendswood HS

AAA Finals :
Music
Greg Bimm - Marian Catholic HS, Illinois
James Keene - University of Illinois-Emeritus
John T. Madden - Michigan State University
Marching
James Hudson - Arizona State University
Monte Mast - Klein ISD

Keith Bearden will have a corps and military background as Texas Tech's Goin Band does both.

Don't you think that "racist" is bit too strong of a word to use? I think the use of the word "prejudice" would be more like it! A military band may never win state, but until the UIL gives the judging panels more of a balance between corps and military style of marching, all of the bands that march military will have ot keep trying!

its not prejudice or anything. it's the scoring system. corps style do better at state and area than military because they score more points.

also I believe the University of Illinois was the band directer of Lovelace (band director NB) in college. He's a corps style director

What is it specifically in the scoring system that favors Corps style over military?
I would contend that prejudice or bias would tend to sway a score one way OR the other, but I fail to see where a rule exists that specifies more points for "Corps" style?

Check your facts, a military band has already won the UIL State Marching Contest.

Overton won the 1A state competiton a few years back...

And just last year the only 2 military bands at the 2a contest made finals, and one of them placed third.

And something else to think about, many of the judges at the state level have experience in both styles, not just one or the other. They don't just grab run of the mill band directors to judge these contests. They used well respected experienced directors, usually that teach at the college level. They aren't going to be ignorant to one style or the other.

Most of the people that post on this board have experience with one or the other, but not both so I don't see how you could possibly argue for one side when you have no experience with the other side to call upon.

Well said! If there were major biases against military bands, then why did New Boston make the finals? You saw they beat out 13 other bands to make it to the state marching band finals.

I remember when i was in high school, the Area C 3A marching contest top 4 bands were military: Cleveland, Lindale, Rusk, and New Boston. Cleveland, Lindale, and Rusk made it state and New Boston was the alternate. (I thought New Boston was better than Rusk that year) They didn't have finals at area that year which still puzzles me.

When did they start having a prelims and finals for area? Our school, Jasper placed 6th and i think there were 18-19 bands at area.

As per UIL rules concerning the Area and State level of marching band procedure"

• If there are 13 bands or less at Area there will be no finals and the top 3 bands will advance to state.
• If there are 14 - 20 bands the top 7 in prelims will play again. 3 bands advance.
• If there are 21+ bands the top 10 will play in finals and 4 will advance to state
• At the Area level if for 5 bands over 20 they will take one more band per 5(i.e. 25 bands at Area, 5 bands advance to state.)

there are points for flags, drumline, pit, marching, etc. Corps band just naturally earn more points because they have more stuff out their, and music used for corps has tempo changes and such so the judging system is based off corps bands. there probably wasn't any malice towards military style involved when making the grading system, just failure to account for military's lack of flags, pit, etc

After you have looked at the UIL Marching Band Comment Sheet, come back on this forum point out to us all where there are "points" for anything.

As far as I am concerned, New Boston is lucky to have made the finals bc they are the first military 3A band to ever make the finals at state.

Lucky? You mean to say they didn't earn that spot in the finals?

no no no no no. I very much so think that they deserved it. I'm just saying many other military 3A bands have deserved it in the past as well. I dont think luck has anything to do with it. I just think God likes the New Boston "military stide with pride" a little more than other military bands.

I don't think it's "luck." They did better than a lot of corps bands so that's saying something. As for first military 3A band to make finals, there may be some validity to that statement. I looked through the archives and i haven't seen a military band in the top 5 or 7 spots. Cleveland and New Boston came close in recent years as did Lindale.

It's worth noting that at 3A state contest Wills Point, a perrenial 3A finals band, had a phasing problem that never happened before and if they go out and do it 10 more times it doesn't happen again...but they did which opened up a spot in 7th place for finals.

so basically what your saying is that New Boston wouldnt have made the finals, had it not been for Wills Points screw up?

As far as i know, that statement is true. The new Boston band director, Mr. Lovelace, told everyone in the band that it was. And I think they did well too. I just think that it is hard in this day and age to be a military band in a corps world.

Funny...I bet NB doesn't feel that way.




Woulda, coulda, shoulda...yada yada yada...

well. im going to say that yes, nb does feel that way. And I believe i would know a little better than you considering i am part of the new boston military stride with pride.

And I never said that they would have beat us. I was asking the person i responded to if thats what they were saying. I think we did our best and deserved to make the finals. Sorry if you though i was saying something different.

First of all...congratulations on a great year, one for the record books...you should be proud of the accomplishments. And perhaps you are right, when the majority of bands march corps at a state level competition, it's easy to feel left out. And NB has been in the past, but I don't think it was because they marched military, I think it was because 7 bands marched, and played, better. Just my opinion...

that is surprising Canton didn't win.

WOW I KNO WHO THIS IS!!!!

and NB is the best military in the state what what

Where do you get Wills Point is a 3A Perennial State finals band? Wills Point has only made it to finals 3 times. The 1st was 04-05 and they didn't get past the prelims.
2nd was 06-07 and they did make it past prelims and got 2nd in State, behind 1st place Canton.
3rd was 08-09 and they didn't get past the prelims that time.
I surely dont call this Perennial State finals band. Stay around another 3 or 4 years and well see. Good Luck to Wills Point. Hope they make it to State next year.

Canton had a lot of seniors grad in 09. They did get quite a few freshman but when your new to marching, the rest of the band suffers. Toups said the program was one of the hardest he had put on a fresh new band in sometime. He's always pushing the envelope and his kids. They can do good and he will criticize them after a show and you wouldn't believe the results he gets out of them in finals vs prelims.