I know this is the wrong section, but I need opinions...

Last night two local little league teams squared off in the first game of a tournament being held this weekend. It was a pretty typical big-town v. small community battle and the small community won 14-4. After the game the losing coach pulled out his dixie league rule book and declared himself the winner because the other team only had 9 players (must have 11). To top it off, the losing team was the home team and was down 14-2 going into the bottom of the last inning. Since there is a 7 run rule, the game was already decided, but the winning mgr decided, at the losing mgrs request, to go ahead and play the bottom half for the kids - effectively burning up innings for a pitcher (clearly a nice gesture).

What are your thoughts??

The final ruling was that since this wasn't a "postseason" tournament the rule would not be used and the deserving team would get their win and rightfully so. IMO the losing mgr made a uknowhat out of himself and acted like a MEOW... Is this the kind of example he wants to set for his kids - if your best effort leaves you in defeat, try and find some loophole to claim victory - SAD..

Oh the kids are 9 and 10 year old...

Sounds about right. Nobody is concerned about rules until it affects them. Where was this tournament played? In my opinion, the coach lost his right to protest as soon as the first pitch wass thrown. I guarantee you that he thoought he had an easy "W" before the game started. I love it when that happens.

The game was in New London....

It was pretty funny, before the game we went out and talked with the opposing mgr to confirm that the 7 run limit would be enforced and that the time limit would be 1 1/2 hour. He said "where ya'll from" when he heard Overton, he kinda smirked - i could tell he thought he was going to win. Coulda been worse than it was...

The other team was from Jacksonville.

I know their are rules and they should be followed, but being this nit-picky is..... well....

Sounds like you guys are starting a good baseball program from the little leagues on up through HS. I assume you have a future big leaguer playing. What did he think of the other coaches boo hooing?

I coach a team in this league in the 11-12 year old division. I umpire all ages though. We had a case the other night in the 13-14 year olds where according to the rulebook, the wearing of masks on the batting helmet is mandatory or it may be decided by the opposing team for them to forfeit. A team from a town I can't remember, did not have the proper facemask and could have been made to forfeit. Whenever I went to ask the opposing coach what he wanted to do, he said to let the rule go and just play baseball (as nice as that was for him. He made that decision whenever his team was down by 8). Then throughout the rest of the game, the coach of the team without facemasks complained about every call made. I counted about 10 times of having to hear him complain about something. This guy does not realize that the other coach could have made him forfeit. His team maintained a 7 run lead the whole time also.

What is with the little league coaches? Let the kids play and have fun.

They didnt know what was going on, we went to the middle of the field around second base and tried to handle it with little or no drama. There were some heated moments, but it was handled reasonably well. When the Overton coach said that he couldn't wait to play them again the Jacksonville guy said that they could have their own game right then and there.

That team may have been from Jacksonville but the coach was from Jack #### ville. What is the deal about 11 kids?
If you have enough to put on the field and want to take your chances what is the big deal? Sounds like a bad rule- but I don't have little league players. And Mr. #### knew you only had 9 kids from the start. If he was Mr. Rulebook, shouldn't he have pointed that out before you started the game?

that rule is for all star tourn., not local league tourn. that coach is a moron. if you read the rulebook completely, he would see the rule was for all star tourn.

Thanks Ty. The guy sounded like a shmuck, so glad to hear you confirm it.

That is pathetic of that coach. I officiate little league as well, and I can't stand when a coach is yelling at an official or arguing every single pitch. But in the next breath, he is preaching character to his kids.

and on another note, the two overton coaches he was dealing with, he might want to leave them alone. both are excellant coaches and all about the kids. but both had ruff past(16-23) and can handle themselves better than just about anyone else in overton. so he better watch who he is asking for another game with and leave it to just the kids playing baseball. i don't want anyone to get the wrong idea, those guys do an excellant job with the kids(i have twins that play for them), but they have plenty of experiance in thier past handling themselves. he couldn't of picked two worse guys to jack with.

Some how it's always the adults that screw things up isn't it.

Why does everything have to result in fighting? No one said anything about fighting. But that sounds about right for alot of adults in little league. My dad can beat up your dad!!

Its always funny to me that when Ol' podunk Overton goes to a larger town (i.e. J'ville, Tyler, etc.) and..."upset (wink, wink) their team...that someone makes an excuse. I'll bet the J'ville coach was thinking, only 9 players? Overton? Hmm, we got this. Dont underestimate your opponent, then make up excuses. There isnt much of an excuse when you GET THROTTLED by 12 runs. And when you come to Overton...to our small fields with the rickety fences and the dirt walk ways, and get the same waxing...dont bother crying. But, if you come over and win, you'll get the same comment from players and coaches alike..."Good Game!!!" We make no excuses for losing, and we dont gloat after a win. Yes, sometimes our coaches will argue calls, thats part of it. But what this cat did was idiotic. We work hard at building a strong competitive league in Overton. Thats the reason we schedule games with the likes of Tyler, Kilgore, and Jacksonville. It has made us a better and more competitive league. Give the small towns a little credit for building success.

Wow now that is "class" with a "k". These coaches need to lighten up I mean these are 9 and 10 year old kids they're dealing with. Im embarressed that a man from my town represented Jacksonville like that, Im sure some of the parents felt the same way. I am very curious to know who the coach was.

Shouldn't be too hard to figure out. There are not that many 10-12 year old teams in Jax.

I don't know, but Jax is pretty close to Overton, so if anyone has paid ANY attention lately, they should know that Overton has a pretty good baseball history...at least recently, can't speak for too long ago, so I am not sure anyone was overlooking them, even in little league.

I have to agree with UMAX. You make the protest before the game starts. The coach agreed to play against a team, then changes his mind after a good country boy donkey whipping. That coach is a disgrace. The values that he represents are reprehensible. He originally agreed to play against what he perceived to be a weaker team. There is nothing this coach or any of his minions can say to change my mind.

I have to say this coach is pathetic, and not a man of his word.

OOH watch out it has already been stated that he and his brother can take care of themselves casue they had a hard life or whatever....

The only problem I would have would be if a team had TOO MANY kids on the field. If I had 5 kids and they still wanted to play, I would let them play. Like you others said, if he had a problem, he should have addressed it BEFOFRE the game.

the statement was that the overton coaches could handle themselves, but no one said they where trying to fight. the jax coach was the one that said something about wanting to have another game with the coaches right then. no one said overton coaches wanted to fight. i just said he couldn't of picked two worse people to tangle with.

I have a question. I coach 9-10 yr. old dixie and was told about this situation that arose in another game. First, let me explain that we have a 7 run rule with the continuation rule where 10 runs are possible. One team has scored 6 runs and has the bases loaded. The batter is walked and the team on defense clears the field immediately. All runners came home and the official counted all runs. I do know that the catcher caught the ball, but not sure if he threw it back to the pitcher. The official said that they abandoned the field therefore all the runs counted. Is this the correct call, or was the play over when the first runner touched home plate?

OK, there is a little league/peewee forum on Smoaky and this definitely needs to be there instead of in the high school sports area. This just shows what is wrong with some youth leagues. People wanting to fight over a peewee game, weird rules about the number of runs and number of players....just let the kids have some fun, learn some baseball, and see the importance of sportsmanship. And to save some time for someone, yes, I know I don't have to read this thread, but I did.

I think that the continuation rule is only applied when a ball is put in play via a hit. I was in the same situation a few years ago in Arp. So I walked in the seventh run, and the umpire ruled game over.

Wow, you are correct. There is a forum that would have been more appropriate for this thread. Thank you for being so observant. Sorry to have wasted your time. I will try to be more attentive and make posts in the proper place. I am putting myself in time-out for at least 15 minutes.

How dare you talk about little pee-wee baseball when this forum is for them grown high school kids...what was you thinking? Its bad enough that some of these grown high schoolers still have to share a room with their little brothers playing pee-wee ball there is no way they should have to share the same forum space....and you call yourself a coach

the next time you feel like this in the morning, get back in the bed and roll out the other side. because you clearly roll out on the WRONG SIDE THIS MORNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To get technical, you're right about where the thread should be. Other than that you're wrong.

A game is a game. You sound like a person that refuses to keep score so everyone can Win ! Yippee Dee Doo Dah Day !
Run along and play in your playbox. The team got beat by an undermanned team, and now they're crying. The coaches and players are a bunch of and . They were drummed and can't man up that they were beat.

not taking up for th {edited by admin} Coach, But sometimes less is to the advantage, particulary in this age group, if the other 2 were clutzes, that stayed at home for some reason.

How is that for a run on sentence.

It is a shame to know that people are going and representing their communities like this. I played on the Jacksonville select teams that traveled around and played when I was younger, and we had coaches who truly tried to lead by example. It bothers me to know that a program that used to have such strong values and tradition has evolved into this.

As we all know there are two sides to every tale and it appears that that the original author of the thread is telling what happened with an undeniable slant of truth and fact in an obvious biased way.

There is nothing wrong with someone asking to see the rule book to answer questions that someone has in his or her mind regarding any particular situation. That's why we have rules! There is however something wrong with Overtons coach becoming belligerent and aggressive about that fact. The Jacksonville coach simply asked a question regarding the rulebook while using the upmost respect and consideration while doing so. Never did Jacksonville 'declare their selves the winner' as the Overton coach is unjustly stating. That is simply not true. A question was simply asked questions regarding the rules. In fact, Overtons coach very brusquely and loudly came over to where the Jacksonville coaches, parents, and children were standing and started a confrontation with the coach because of this. And this was BEFORE the conversation in the middle of the field (where I can assure you that unlike what the Overton coach stated earlier in this thread, everyone could hear what they were saying including the kids). If you're going to be anything at least you should try to be truthful.

QUOTE

He said "where ya'll from" when he heard Overton, he kinda smirked - i could tell he thought he was going to win. Coulda been worse than it was...

Are you kidding me? That's simply not true. We knew who we were playing before we arrived at the field. We didn't come to the game with ANY preconceived notion of winning or losing, only for our boys to play their best, draw some experience from playing a team from another town, and most importantly have fun! I highly doubt our coach 'smirked' and from that you were able to draw forth that 'he thought he was going to win'. That's what they call assuming, and you know what they say about that!

QUOTE

I am very surprised that you made this particular comment because of how wild and belligerent Overton coaches in fact were. I could hear from where I was standing. There were several times when I thought that Overton coaches were going to attack. Quite frankly I was afraid of the example you were setting for all of the kids, Overton and Jacksonville children alike. If your going to tell a story don't deliberately leave out the other side of the story to try to better your side of the situation.

Base Hit,
I was not at the game, but, being from Overton and being involved in the Little League organization there...it didnt take long to hear about it. And, I will partially retract my previous post if I could get a little clarification on how the whole argument was started. The story that I got was that Jacksonville didnt decide to protest the game until after said game was completed. Stateing that Overton went againt tournament rules by only playing with 9 players. I understand the protest, but, shouldnt it have been addressed before the game. And, would there have been a protest if J'ville would have been victorious? And remember that Im commenting based off of what I have been told.

#1 this post wasn't started by anyone from overton. clutchon18 is not an overton coach(read his past posts) and since i know who he is, i can tell you, most times he is upset with the overton little league coaches. that says all it needs to about the truth of this situation. this wasn't an "Overton coach becoming belligerent and aggressive". you need to get your fact right, protest the 9 players before you get beat by them(like when you get the line up sheet), and most of all, stop !!!!!!!!!!!

Tom Hanks said it best.

If I can stop laughing I will respond...In Dixie or Little League it is almost always to your advantage to have 9 players versus 11.

Wow. Glad to hear both sides.

I have to agree with Mustangfan and TyCobb. Coaches should know the rulebook like the back of their hand. The same applies to umpires.

As for OldBBFan's statement : How is it advantageous to have 9 versus 11 ? I can only see the point if the best 9 players showed up for Overton, and the worst stayed home. Otherwise it's a moot point. If my memory serves correctly regarding Dixie League Ball, subsitute players only have to be played for 2 innings. Still, the rules about that shouldn't be argued by the Overton coach since he brought only 9 players to the field to play. If I were the umpire of the game, and yes I have umpired baseball games. I would rule against the Overton coach, if he protested the game under those circumstances.

That is normally what happens in this age group. If only 9 show up it is usually the best 9 you have. And I will go you one better if 8 show up it is even more advantages than 9. Most of your runs are going to be generated by 1 - 5 in the order. The more often they get to bat the more runs you score. In this age group 2 outfielders is usually sufficent. The rule is one at bat and one inning on defense. Games are short. Having to take a starter out for even one inning can make a huge difference. And last but certainly not least. EVERYBODY is happy. Players and parents alike. You just hope no one gets injured and forces a forfiet.

there are 3-9 and 10 teams in overton. they all have about 10 on a team. it was the complete team, no one was left at home. and the overton coach wasn't the one protesting. it was the jacksonville coach that protested the game, because the overton team didn't have more than 9. to update the story a little, the jacksonville v. p. of their board called today and appologized. he seemed to be on top of the situation and is taking care of it. the two towns board members have exchanged #s and this will not happen again!!

Unfortunately, the example that was sadly set for the kids was of the Overton coach cursing and acting beligerently when asked a simple rule question. Since the following posts in this forum list the "big town" and "small community" as Jacksonville and Overton, I have to say I find it laughable that Jacksonville is being described as a big town.
Those members who added posts to this fourm and called Jacksonville names such as {edited by admin} and their coach ignorant and dumb, need to go back and refresh their memories on the rules of this websites membership. Specifically not to post items that are defamatory, harrassing and the list of do nots goes on and on. Since asked, My opinion is that the #1 rule in childrens sports is that a good example be set for the children by the coaches. This was clearly not done when the Overton coach acted inapproprately on the field. The players and parents of players heard him cursing and behaving like he was spoiling for a fight over a simple question regarding the rules. This is not the first time I have heard of poor sportsmanship and rudeness from the Overton ball coaches. I know Overton is a small community, but they don't have to act small. Get a life, this isn't the Big League.

If you as a umpire let a team play without face mask, then you will be in trouble in a kid gets hurt, they can not play dixie without a face mask no exception

barbie, you better stick to the barbie dream house and the goody goody lifestyle. your simple rule question was trying to have a game taken from a bunch of 9 and 10 yr olds that had beaten you fairly and given to your children. if that is the example you want set for your child, i'm glad to hear you don't like overton. at least i know your influence will never be around my children. in overton, you earn what you get. and you for sure better not try to take it from someone who beat you fairly. if we are so wrong, why did the j-ville coach get suppended from coaching this year by your president of j-ville dixie?

Barbie, those are really great points.
TyCobb, just for the record, the coach is NOT suspended.

Shows what you don't know. I was born in Overton and delivered right at the Overton hospital. That was before it went out of business, like most everything else there. However, back to the point at hand. You are very wrong about the Jacksonville coach getting suspended (you need to learn to spell in addition to learning manners) Get your facts straight. They just played on Friday and will again on Tuesday, and you may rest assured they still have their same coach. Also, for your information I don't have any kids on either team. I was merely visiting a friend who lives in New London. I was invited to go to the game, eventhough neither of us had children playing ball. My friend said the game should be really entertaining because those Overton folks are C R A Z Y! Boy was she right. I couldn't believe all that cursing comming from the Overton coach. I thought I was going to get to see a little boxing too, in addition to some baseball. Overton definately lived up to their reputation.

believe what you want and i don't care if you like my spelling or my manner. this isn't english class, it's a sports forum. and my information came from a conversation i had with the j-ville pres. myself. so if the coach is still coaching, i guess i got lyed too. and you can make every accusation you want about cussing, but you're the only one i have heard say that. and i have spoken to the west rusk tourn. director and several others. i don't care where you were born just that your not here anymore!

I don't know if you got lied to or not. I am merely telling you that the Jacksonville coach is still coaching. I honestly don't care if you talked to the west rusk tournament director, the J'ville director, or anyone else. What I'm saying to you is, I was at that game. If you were also there, maybe the conflagration between the coaches happend when you were getting your nachos. If it's like I think though, you weren't there, and you need to shut up. You don't know what you're talking about and are just running your mouth.
Now, why don't you wipe that tobacco juice off your chin, and shut your pie hole. I know what I saw and heard. The coach from Overton being rude to the visiting team and cursing in front of a bunch of little kids. That kind of behavior might be the status quo in your neck of the woods, but it's not where I come from.
Which brings us back to the one area in which you and I have discovered some common ground, that being the fact we are both really glad I'm not in Overton anymore.

shows what you now, i was there, i have more information than you because of the conversations i had with every one there. i don't dip, smoke, or chew tobacco products, so try again. maybe you're just a mad mama trying to make your town look a little better by running someone else down. and what better town than the town you grew up in. where you a geek in school. did you get made fun of as a child. i understand, just go back to your bon-bons, ice cream, and comfort foods. next week, you can start that diet!

TyCobb, regardless there isn't any need in this.

The facts were presented that the J'ville coach agreed to play against the Overton team with the minimum amount of players. He had the choice to accept the forfeit or play the game. He chose to play the game. Once his team wasn't able to beat an outmanned team, he wanted to be a J'ville Indian giver and renege on his word. He wanted to save face. He decided after he agreed to the terms, that he couldn't live up to his word. Hmmm, it's the new American Way. It's the new generation of America and apparently Texas.


Anyway you slice this limberger cheese, it stinks.

Youth sports brings out the best in all of the adults doesn't it? You want to see rabid parents? Go watch a Tee ball game. It is a scary experience. Parents should really take a step back and just enjoy watching your kid play and cheer the teams on.

Any protest should be made before the game if the violation is present before it starts. Not after you agree to play the game and lose. If the violation occurs during the game it makes it a whole different situation.

Youth coaches, players and parents should always try to maintain good sportsmanship and be an example for others. I know it is hard sometimes but we should always try our best.

[quote name='BGR' date='Apr 30 2009, 10:56 AM' post='1164858']
Youth sports brings out the best in all of the adults doesn't it? You want to see rabid parents? Go watch a Tee ball game. It is a scary experience. Parents should really take a step back and just enjoy watching your kid play and cheer the teams on.

I second that!!