What are the #'s like right now? Who is close to the current cutoff #'s for 3A?

Any schools likely moving up to 4A or down to 3A? Any 2A's with possible 3A #'s?

Just curious

Prosper will probably remain 3A. I think they are at around 890 right now.

Yeah, Prosper will definitely stay 3A... I will miss playing against you in your tourney Wildcats! Good luck to both you and the Lady Eagles of P-town!

You took off before I got a chance to win my trophy back

We're 1-1 now so this will have to be continued at some point. We had some battles! Good Luck at LE

Eustace is close to going 2A we are sitting at about 440

I can't remember how this works. If Eustace drops to 2A, would they be allowed to compete in 4A soccer since they are already established? Or would that drop them from UIL competition and leave them with just a JV schedule?

They would get bumped by the UIL under the current UIL rules. Teams are only allowed to play up ONE classification and technically they are playing in a 4A classification.

Hempstead had to drop UIL soccer after the 2006 season when they fell to 2A.

I heard Henderson could go 3a

Seems like they should make exceptions to that rule for soccer and any other sport that doesn't compete in a normal 1A-5A configuration. If they are an existing program competing in a UIL district and then drop down to 2A they should be able to remain in a district. I would understand more if they weren't already established. Has that ever been brought up?

We'll have a better idea on the snapshot day at the end of October. Unfortunately, the numbers that every one reports on these forums are not always accurate, so then it goes to February before we really know the actual numbers.

I can say that Brenham won't go 5A unless another 700-800 students show up in the next five weeks.......

I heard that Kilgore is probably going to drop to 3A also

Numbers for the last alignment. I wouldnt think kilgore has less than 980.

2008-2009 & 2009-2010

5A 2085 & up

4A 980 to 2084

3A 430 to 979

2A 200 to 429

1A 199 & below

* 99.9 & below

The past few alignments the numbers have gone up by a minimum of 30 students enrolled and I heard kilgore is around 985!!
So for 4A the bottom will probably be around 1000

Longview will most probably go 5a from what i have been told. Number around 2185. Lufkin is staying 5a. The cut off for 5a will probably be about 2125. But, is John Tyler dropping down to 4a? Oct. 21st is the date it will be decided.

If the bottom is 1000, the following are 4A schools below the cutoff in 2008:

San Elizario - 993
Canyon - 995
Henderson - 985
Lindale - 988
Mabank -984
District 22 in Houston *
Austin Johnston - 847
Austin Reagan - 964 *
Rockport Fulton - 981

Keep in mind that UIL doesn't set specific enrollment cutoffs. Instead, they are tasked with slotting a certain number of schools into each classification. Yes, enrollment limits are generally trending up. However, there is fairly significant variation year by year. In a given year, one classification may jump quite a bit, while another remains fairly static. Difficult to predict what will happen.

Still interesting to talk about though ...

Kaufman will remain 3A. North Forney and Quinlan have both started up programs this year as well, so there are 2 new 3A teams.

Hopefully, UIL will announce that they will recognize 3A soccer for the next realignment. Keep your fingers crossed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We'll see. I think more importantly than the new programs this alignment will be the 4A teams dropping down to 3A. We are only about 25-30 teams away from 120 teams I think.

They need to do something though. Our 6 team district (5 4A schools and a 3A) will lose at least 3 schools to 5A next year. The numbers I've seen on forums have Midlothian around 2250, Mans Timberview around 2300 and Mans Legacy around 2350. Seguin was just over 1900 last alignment. I know you can't predict growth like this when determining district alignments but we may as well be playing in a 5A district. I know we're not the only district with these type of differences. The big school/small school idea back in 2007-08 would have eliminated these scenarios. I also think we would see less 3A discussion with a Division I and Division II alignment for 4A. Go back to 32 districts for each and that will allow changes to be made without really having to take west Texas into consideration like the 3A idea is having to contend with. Just my 2 cents

In wrestling, there are no classifications at all. A quick check of the district alignment indicates that 2A through 5A compete at the same level. Similarly, there should be a way to allow any school to participate in soccer. Until the classifications are expanded for soccer, "4A" should mean everyone who is not 5A.

I can imagine some temporary travel and competitive issues as smaller schools start programs. However, more small school programs should mean quicker establishment of a 3A classification.

I didn't know that about wrestling. I think you have a point, if they do it for one why not the others. Having said that, based on comments by schools without soccer right now but are interested in adding a soccer program, the soccer numbers still would not increase that much. Too many schools say they are waiting on a 3A classification before they start.

On a side note, TASCO is proposing that UIL grandfather any established program into a UIL district that has dropped from 3A to 2A. Right now they would not be allowed to compete in a district if that were the case.

4A to 3A - Kilgore, Mabank, Henderson and Lindale.
3A to 2A - Mineola, Mt Vernon, Tatum and Eustace.

Sure hope that logic and fairness take over on the grandfather proposal. It would be ridiculous for an established soccer program to be forced out due only to declining school enrollment. (The cutoffs are just arbitrary numbers after all.)

For the Love of the Game.......No reason to not have 3A soccer now. First we were told 100 schools(I think it was lower then 100 though) would get us 3A soccer and then the "magic" number was 120 when we started to get close to 100. Wonder what the new number will be now.

You have 6 3A schools in the Houston district, that play soccer, that are going to play 3A sports.......you have 4A schools that are dropping in enrollment that will probably be 3A schools that play soccer......you have new programs like spring hill and many more that are starting up and then you have several schools that are just waiting to start soccer when "the powers from above" are gracious enough to let this awesome sport grow with the adding of 3A soccer.

Here is just 2 examples of how some soccer programs are getting hosed (we have many more)

Granbury (2,063.5) in the same district as Hillsboro (461 students)
Richmond Foster (2,043) in the same district as Brookshire Royal (476 students)

Now that seems far doesn't it.....what a joke!! No wonder why some schools won't start soccer....my hat is off to the ones that hang in there and keep playing.

I agree exactly. It's not fair for either team. Look at Dis 35-4A. How does a team the size of Nacogdoches get anything out of playing a school like Center. The sooner 3A soccer begins the sooner more schools start playing.

4A - Nacogdoches 1800 kids

3A - Center 600 kids

Lack of fair competition is a problem. But, UIL's stance might be: The sooner more schools start playing, the sooner 3A soccer begins.

I would encourage 3A schools to go ahead and start programs (and yes, take their lumps in 4A for awhile) rather than wait on UIL. At least it would allow their kids to play and it might eventually force UIL's hand.

Lets not focus on 3A soccer for a moment.....WHY CAN'T THEY SPLIT US INTO SMALL SCHOOL/BIG SCHOOL???

They do it for football and in those smaller classifications they don't have an issue of playing someone 3 or 4 times your size.

I think they can go with 3A and make it work but if not then make a small school and big school situation.

I would like someone try to explain to me why we couldn't split into two divisions.

They're going to say they can't handle the additional games at the state tournament. EXCUSE!!!

Thursday
8am - 3A/D2 Boys - semi1
10am - 3A/D2 Boys - semi2
12pm - 4A/D1 Girls - semi1
2pm - 4A/D1Girls - semi2
4pm - 4A/D1 Boys - semi1
6pm - 4A/D1 Boys - semi2

Friday
Same as Thursday but 8 and 10 games are 3A/D2 Girls semi's and then switch it to 5A semi's

Saturday
8am - 3A/D2 Girls Champ
10am - 3A/D2 Boys Champ
12am - 4A/D1 Boys Champ
2am - 4A/D1 Boys Champ
4am - 5A Girls Champ
6am - 5A Boys Champ

Yes, it's a long day of soccer but don't use the excuse that it can't be done at 1 site.

Every classification of football (6 man through 5A) is split into Div. 1/Div. 2. But no other sport gets this benefit (except 1A basketball for some reason).

That is football. But this is soccer. And this is Texas. Not saying it's right. Just saying it is what it is.

And I guess that really only explains why they won't, not why they can't ...

They do the same thing for BBall, VBall, Basaeball and softball. Makes for long days but who cares......it's for the kids, right?? More kids and schools get recognized as state champions or just have a chance to experience a state tournament.

Can't fly about only football gets to split......that is true but this is a different situation here. You have two classifications playing together and possibly three if they let those established 2A programs still be part of the party.

Why not have two sites that are close together? Makes too much sense I guess.

Wildcats -

At the state tournament they currently play 4 games a day. The first two are at 11 and 1 and then the last two are at 4 and 6. The 4 o'clock game sometimes doesn't start on time because of the 11 and 1 games. An OT and shoot-out game will take over two hours to play and that doesn't include all the pageantry before each game, warming up, etc. There is no way to play 6 games in day. You also have to look at travel considerations. Two hours is not a big deal to travel for an 11:00 game, but 8:00? That means San Antonio would need to spend the night to go to N. Austin because of morning traffic. Lots to consider here.

BUT, that is still not an excuse for adding a third conference in soccer. I think that we will see anumber of "new" 3A programs after realignment. A large number of schools will be getting bumped down, I believe.

Peter Contreras of the UIL will be at the clinic to provide information and answer questions. This would be a good place to ask them. Maybe they could consider placing 3A schools in to their own districts for 2010-2011 within the 4A conference play-off alignment? At least where it is geographically sensible.

That would be a step.

I realize that wasn't perfect and had holes. Having said that take a look at the 2010 basketball state tourney. Earliest game starts at 8:30 am. Latest game starts at 8:30 pm. I hear you though.

Do the pics outside the stadium during the previous game. I think that would help pregame go smoother for the team anyway.

I said this a couple years ago, hold it at Blossom in SA! 3 fields. Put the 3A or D2 games over on the grass and the big boys at the stadium. 1 site so UIL is happy. Who cares if it's in Austin anyway....it's not even in austin!

Duals: maybe you can answer this question on a forum.

WHY do they have to be played in the same stadium? I don't think the 3A schools would mind playing in a cow pasture if we could have our own division. I just think excuses again.

Why do they not want the sport to grow? I get tired of hearing this geographical mumbo jumbo stuff. Who cares if someone has a few byes. There was byes 18 years ago on the girls side all the way to the regional semi's. I also remember having to drive over 4 hours to play in a area game and that was from the central Texas area to East Texas area.

If they are so worried about this geographical stuff then make small school/big school......I still haven't seen anyone explain that one away!!! Waiting for an excuse!!! Might sound harsh from my side but I am tired of hearing all this BS. You have all these small schools that will start in 2 weeks from Monday but have a snow #### chance at advancing because they have to play the big schools. Put them in a 3A district and then get blown away in the first round.....yeah, I guess that is better then nothing.....Don't fly with me at all.

I will be at the clinic and I have MANY questions for PETE! I can't wait to get the run around......again!

Amen Wildcats!!

Hey, two divisions works for me! We are down to almost 1300. We might go small in that set-up!

LOOK OUT! BUFF has come out of hibernation and is restless

We'll be sure to rope off a section near the mic for you and Sandman during the UIL meeting. I'll bring the popcorn. Man, I love soccer season!

Just got back from the state Cross Country meet and now it is time to focus totally on soccer.

How did the girls do at state? Let's meet for dinner Thursday after the last session. Our boys coach will be their also.

what time does all this start Thursday?

THe girls won their region and ended up 8th at state. Beat everyone in our region again but no doubt the cream of the crop in Round Rock!

Sure be nice if we are heard at SA and not just pushed to the side.

registration is from 5-6.
session 1 6-7
session 2 7-8
session 3 8-9

the october newsletter on the TASCO site has the schedule for the weekend

Snap shot for Eustace was 419 - I sure hope that they can still play if they go down to 2A. This season there is a great turn out, enough for JV and V from what I understand.

Last realignment, the 3A minimum was 430. If I had to guess, I would say Eustace will go 2A. Hopefully, UIL will do the right thing for Eustace and other schools in their situation.

Unfortunately it sounds like Eustace will not be able to play in a district until the realignment after this one if they drop to 2A. At the TASCO clinic, UIL Asst AD, Peter Contreras, discussed the proposal of grandfathering existing schools that drop to 2A so they can still compete in UIL. He said he felt like it was going to be approved but that it would be the next year before it was actually put in writing. The way it was said was they wouldn't be able to play in a UIL district until the 2012 soccer season. I hope that UIL realizes what that does to the kids at those schools and creates a way for them to play without losing a season or 2. Figure out a way to speed up the process on such a simple thing as this. Good luck to all that this applies to.

That whole meeting was a bunch of C>R>A>P!!!! They are worried about how we might count points in district or if we should sit on the same side of the pitch (very trivial).......when we should be trying to find ways to EXPAND our sport with 3A Soccer instead of finding reasons not to have 3A Soccer.

Back to 3A schools moving down can't compete in districts in 2011........also a bunch of C>R>A>P!!! When softball started you had the likes of Slocum (1A) playing teams like REL and Nacogdoches (5A then) in the playoffs. No one worried about schools playing up then but we are going to punish schools that lose enrollment because it isn't already written in the rules for soccer

What was the final word on teams sitting on the same side of the field?

There wasn't a final word

Having refereed high school soccer in KY where they do put both benches on the same side of the field, it definitely has its advantages. One AR can handle all subs from the sidelines and it allows the Center Ref to be more efficient in noticing and executing substitutions.

The question about all this..."why don't more 3A schools have soccer....if we'd just get more 3A teams....blah blah...." Everyone is missing the real reason that soccer is not spreading.....

#1 - For the most part, there is no little league soccer programs in areas that have 3A schools (for the most part). This would cause there to be no background in the sport as kids are coming into high school.

#2 - without having ever played the sport as a young child, they don't know the difference of not having it availible. The kids can't miss what they never had

#3 - and this would be the main reason....NO MONEY. It's a simple fact that schools do not want to spend budget money on a new program that they don't know will even stay afloat. Why take money from already established programs and spend it on soccer? Not only that, but they would have to provide a place for them to practice, hire another coach or two, more money for travel, etc.

Now, I say all this having been an assistant soccer coach at 2 different 3A schools playing in 4A districts. I am originally from Dallas where I grew up playing soccer from the time I was 6 years old. I have been on both sides of this conversation in my life. What I have decided is that the schools would rather spend the money on something they know will work. Volleyball, basketball, football, baseball, softball, and track. The schools are already strapped for money and they don't see taking a flyer on soccer to be worth it. Until they know they can get 40 kids practicing everyday, who will pass thier classes, they won't even think about it. Then, even if that all falls into place, they STILL have to find a way to pay for starting a program. Uniforms, practice equipment, travel costs, gas for buses, officials pay, a coach, etc.

I say all this with the hopes that soccer does take off in East Texas. It is definately growing. The only way this can happen is if we start little leagues!!!! Get some desire for the sport in the community. Teach the game to the little ones. When they get older, they will want to play for thier school! Until then, it will always be a struggle.

Agree and thanks for the softball example. Surely many other sports sponsored by UIL underwent a similar transition period. There wasn't enough participation for 1A - 5A classifications overnight. But I assume any school meeting the requirements was allowed to participate.

If UIL doesn't think the time is right yet for a 3A soccer classification, that's their call. But in the meanwhile, any school able to field a team should be allowed to compete.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there are no classifications for wrestling. However, I assume schools of any size are allowed to participate.

I don't disagree with your points, but I think there are other sports that have had to overcome the same hurdles.

As far as I know, girls don't have much opportunity to play volleyball as kids. Most start playing school volleyball in 7th grade or maybe club volleyball in 6th grade. Few have played it all of their lives. Yet volleyball is widely played at all UIL levels.

Softball, cross-country, wrestling. All require money (coaches, uniforms, transportation, etc.) And they are low revenue. There was a time when schools weren't sure these sports would work, but many took a leap of faith and started programs. Softball and cross-country are at all levels; wrestling is growing.

One problem with soccer might be the timing of the season. Jan., Feb. and early March is not prime time for an outdoor sport. Also, it overlaps with several other sports - basketball, baseball/softball, track. Soccer might do better in the fall if it wasn't for football.