Celina vs Henderson

[morroney]

I will take that one. Celina lost to Lovejoy based upon overconfidence, great coaching by Lovejoy, a 1 dimensional QB, and not playing the best kids both ways.

 

Let me explain. Celina is the smallest 3A D1 school in the state and they have very little depth by comparison to our playoff opponents. They may suit 95 in the playoffs but most are JV kids getting some sideline experience. When Lovejoy had their best player and 2 other starters kicked off the team for drinking at halftime of their last regular season game, many of the Celina kids assumed that the result would be the same for Lovejoy as it would have been for Celina and that it would cripple their hopes of winning. Lovejoy clearly had the bench to overcome the loss of those kids. Celina had just come off of a dismantling of the best QB in 3A the week before and had shut him down completely. Simply put they were overconfident and did not believe that Lovejoy without their QB and RB could perform.

 

Add to that the fact that the Lovejoy coaches recognized that our QB would not run the ball. They played gap control and man coverage and dared the QB to beat them with his legs. On several occasions Lovejoy flushed the QB and forced him into poor decisions and incompletion. 17-0 is really not telling the whole story as it was 3-0 into the 4th and Celina patiently waited for their opportunity. In the middle of the 4th Celina turned the ball over deep in their own territory when the center snapped the ball to early. This allowed LJ a short field and easy score to go up 10-0. Another turnover gave them a short field and the final TD. Celina's D did their job holding LJ to 47 yards rushing and 1.4 yds per carry. 4 lost fumbles and 3 dropped touchdowns were the real story. Lastly, Celina has historically used a two platoon approach which meant that we had 4-5 players that could have helped the O standing on the sideline watching them struggle. If the weak schedule had any effect it was that the players really only played a half season as they were out in the 3rd quarter that may have been a factor related to conditioning.

 

So whats different. They fully respect Henderson and their offensive prowess. They have a multi-dimensional QB and have shown a willingness to let him play. They play their best 11 instead of the best 22.

 

As to the other question on the board about why Celina might have chosen a weaker non-district schedule this alignment, in 08-09 they played 4A Whitehouse, State Champion TCA, and State Champion Daingerfield, as well as having a district including a much larger Prosper as well as Argyle. By the time the playoffs rolled around they were really banged up and as mentioned earlier did not have the depth. Against Kennedale for example in 09 they held them to 63 yards total offense and lost. They were playing with 2 QB's both of which had separated shoulders going into the playoffs. They could not throw the ball beyond 15-20 yards. In the second Q they lost their best RB. They just did not have the depth to overcome those injuries that were accumulated over a long and challenging season. Did the pendulum swing too far? Maybe, but I don't blame the coaches for trying something different. I do not know this is what happened but it would have crossed my mind had it been me.

 

It could also be that Lovejoy was the better team, last year. Didn't they have a lot of turnovers, as well? Excuses about enrollment numbers is not becoming of a first class program. So are you saying Celina could more easily win in D2 with Gilmer and Carthage in the same region? This 2 years is one of the best opportunity Celina has had to win another 3A State Championship. A team that was 3rd in their district, won it last year.

[mafia3]

Just an observation guys but this thread is doing better. Keep I up guys support your team and no personal attacks. I will lead the charge of change and compliment Celina after all my posts and I hope others do the same.

 

I really feel that Del will be the focal point of the outcome of the game. Celina you guys will do what you guys do. I almost hope it turns into a track meet because I think we (Henderson) would have the advantage.

 

Unfortunately I will not be in attendance this week but it's unfortunate even if I would have gone because Rauleson (spell check) is a stud I think is worth watching. He will definitely be a force. Good day Celina (ps I'll take you guys over Alvarado any day!)

 

Geaux LSU Tigers! Go 16-3A bros at Carthage & Gilmer!

 

But most importantly GEAUX HENDERSON LIONS!!!

[Sportsfanatic1]

Kilgore fan here. The one thing I remember most about our game (if you want to call it that) with Henderson was how fast their offense operated. They were by far the most up-tempo offense I saw all year. As soon as the ball was set and blown into play they were snapping it and going. Defensive substitutions were not an option. If Celina is going to have a bunch of players going both ways, they better hope this game doesn't turn into a shootout because that up-tempo offense will eventually wear a defense slap out.

 

Yea we can do that and also line up very quick then see how the defense lines up(mainly zone or man) then change the play...In other words we have the option to do either..

[morroney]

You are uninformed by making statements about fans you know nothing about (does that clear it up for you). With regard to my football experience, I have nothing to prove. WIth regard to the better football team, I have previously stated that I think all things equal Celina would win. I am concerned about the health of the Celina starting RB which could be a difference maker. Again, without the RB at 100% its about a toss up but I will go with the orange. Winning the turnover battle will likely be the difference. Despite what the folks in east Texas think speed won't be the difference maker in this game.

 

No, it really doesn't clear it up. How can you be so sure I know nothing about Celina fans?

 

If all things are equal, won't it be a tie?

[Sportsfanatic1]

I keep hearing about all of this "game" film that Celina fans have watched can I ask what game it was?

[gatordaze]

I keep hearing about all of this "game" film that Celina fans have watched can I ask what game it was?

 

 

All of them. We have community access to hudl.com

[Sportsfanatic1]

All of them. We have community access to hudl.com

 

Ya'll have community access for free?Another question do ya'll have a indoor practice faciilty?

[mafia3]

Ya'll have community access for free?Another question do ya'll have a indoor practice faciilty?

 

What does that have to do with things?

[Sportsfanatic1]

What does that have to do with things?

 

I don't understand what your asking?

[mafia3]

Indoor facility

[Switchblade]

Indoor facility

 

yeah they have one in Ctown

[McLovin]

Kilgore fan here. The one thing I remember most about our game (if you want to call it that) with Henderson was how fast their offense operated. They were by far the most up-tempo offense I saw all year. As soon as the ball was set and blown into play they were snapping it and going. Defensive substitutions were not an option. If Celina is going to have a bunch of players going both ways, they better hope this game doesn't turn into a shootout because that up-tempo offense will eventually wear a defense slap out.

 

using it alot more since playoffs started. good luck against Frisco.

[Aggie98]

using it alot more since playoffs started. good luck against Frisco.

 

Thanks. Good luck to you guys as well.

[cherokee1]

How did Henderson become one of THE teams in ET? They pretty much sucked in 4A so it must have been when they dropped down last season. So you can actually credit the economy in ET for Henderson becoming one of THE teams in ET.

 

 

 

 

 

Henderson did not #### in 4A. We had 30+ consecutive non-losing seasons (have to say it like that because we were 5-5 in 1988) from the 60s to the 90s, won a whole bunch of playoff games, went up and ended a years' long winning streak by Daingerfield, beat Marshall the fall after they won state in 5A, put a boat load of players in college ball, produced several NFL players, and a Super Bowl champion. We never won state until last year, but we were definitely one of THE teams in ET in 4A. And now we are in 3A and put the cherry top in last year in 2010. 2011? Stay tuned...

[cherokee1]

Henderson did not #### in 4A. We had 30+ consecutive non-losing seasons (have to say it like that because we were 5-5 in 1988) from the 60s to the 90s, won a whole bunch of playoff games, went up and ended a years' long winning streak by Daingerfield, beat Marshall the fall after they won state in 5A, put a boat load of players in college ball, produced several NFL players, and a Super Bowl champion. We never won state until last year, but we were definitely one of THE teams in ET in 4A. And now we are in 3A and put the cherry top in last year in 2010. 2011? Stay tuned...

 

 

We just sucked most of the 2000s in 4A because we were one of if not the smallest 4A school in Texas.

[cherokee1]

I assume you reference Diangerfield as it relates to Celina's experience with them in 08-09.

The Daingerfield that playedCelina

 

Steve Edmond– Rivals 4 Star

 

Chris Jones – Rivals 4 Star

 

ShayvionHatten – Rivals 3 Star

 

KeyarrisGarrett – Rivals 3 Star

 

Tyler Boyd– Rivals 3 Star

 

Donald Bryant– Rivals 3 Star

 

David Mims– Rivals 2 Star

 

LamarseLafayette –Rivals 2 Star

 

Marcus Peters – Rivals 2Star

 

 

 

Henderson

 

Del Barnes – Rivals NotRanked

 

LaMarcus Brown – Rivals NotRanked

 

 

Henderson is Daingerfield on estrogen is more like it. We have the Internet here in Celina. We can actually look up your stupid comments. Even ET people are embarrassed by this one!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure he means Henderson this year is the Daingerfield this year (that Gilmer beat by 25) on steroids.

 

And in 4A we also consistently beat Nac and Pine Tree when they were 5A. Those 2 and Marshall were the only 5A teams we played on the regular best I recall.

[cherokee1]

As a matter of fact I have a very good idea who is saying this stuff and they have absolutely no reason to dislike me because I don't even know them personally and they don't speak for all of Celina either. Funny thing is they don't want to talk to me face to face they would rather talk behind my back.

 

Anyway ive wasted enough time typing about this because nothing is gonna change the people or person in question is still gonna mouth off like a school girl and not confront me in person.

 

 

Good God who cares? After this commercial break from the Oprah show... Back to Henderson vs. Celina.

[bojangles]

Good God who cares? After this commercial break from the Oprah show... Back to Henderson vs. Celina.

Amen. After watching a lot of film one thing stands out. The teams that beat Henderson have one thing in common. They both have top 10 defenses in 3A. Gilmer was effective by running a soft zone on the defense and controlled the line reasonably well. Carthage was good in the trenches. Celina is also a top 10 defense. Better than Gilmer by a little. Celina plays much more aggressive style of defense. You have heard of the 10-1 and the special. This years group is pretty good. Specially against the pass. I look for it to be an interesting match. Cannot wait to see what happens.

[CMETILT]

but it is a place where many parents move to the town for their boys to play on the Football team. I don't think a couple of hundred kids, either way, makes much difference.

 

Good luck to Celina and Henderson.

 

It should be a really good game, on Friday.

 

Signing out.

 

I'm not sure I agree with you on the latter. Yes, some parents move to Celina just for the football program. But not all as you mention. And I disagree with the couple of hundred kids. That's a huge disparity. Lovejoy and Prosper both have 1,000+ kids Celina has 600 or so. Thats a 40% difference and can make a huge difference regarding depth. Especially this time of year.

[morroney]

Amen. After watching a lot of film one thing stands out. The teams that beat Henderson have one thing in common. They both have top 10 defenses in 3A. Gilmer was effective by running a soft zone on the defense and controlled the line reasonably well. Carthage was good in the trenches. Celina is also a top 10 defense. Better than Gilmer by a little. Celina plays much more aggressive style of defense. You have heard of the 10-1 and the special. This years group is pretty good. Specially against the pass. I look for it to be an interesting match. Cannot wait to see what happens.

 

Not sure how you can determine that Celina's defense is better than Gilmer's? Is that from a historical perspective or comparison of performance against common opponents? Is your determination from this year's statistics or is it the Celina fan special football knowledge that all of you possess? Lovejoy marched down the field on the first drive of the game and in the 3rd quarter, last week. Did Lovejoy have a good offense?

[CMETILT]

Ya'll have community access for free?Another question do ya'll have a indoor practice faciilty?

 

Yes.

[charlesrixey]

Oh, you are so right about the armchair quarterbacks in Celina. The most vociferous ones have never played High School football. I watched the Henderson game against Carthage, last night, and Henderson looks to be very dangerous. The quarterback is far ahead of any quarterback Celina has played against, this year. Celina has not played any team this good, all year. They point to Prestonwood, a private school, but they barely got by that team, 34-33, and PW didn't have a running game and has a somewhat soft defense, but give Celina credit where credit is due. They came back from a 12 point deficit in the last 5 minutes, on PW's home field, although the private school fans aren't nearly as fanatical. That school also concentrates on academics.

 

Celina is always a good team and program, but they put together a soft schedule, each year, hoping when they go 10-0, the Celina people won't notice losing in the playoffs. There was a 2 year exception to that rule in 2008 and 2009. They played Whitehouse, Arlington Heights and Daingerfield in non-district. Also, TCA Addison was decent. In district, they got spanked by Prosper both years, 33-7 and 38-14. After that, Butch Ford wasn't going to add that many losses(9) in 2 years, on his overall record, ever again.

 

For the record, Gilmer spanked Celina something like 45-17 in 2003, at Eagle Mustang stadium in Richardson, TX. No-one in Celina ever talks about that game.

Also, a misinformed poster, last evening, indicated that the Carthage 2008 squad was the only team that could have beaten Celina, at that time. Actually, the state championship game, that year, was in the quarterfinal between Carthage and Gilmer, with the Bulldogs winning 31-28. Prosper won the Div 1 title that year, and defeated Celina 33-7 in the regular season. Of course, no-one could have beaten Celina, since they were the only team that could have improved as the season progressed.

 

If you are willing to go back a decade, then i will throw out some numbers for you as well. Celina has played in 10 title games, all against Region III opponents, and is 7-2-1. That tells me that they have beaten a fair number of East Texas teams. Unfortunately, at the 3A level the Bobcats are only 1-2, but i guess Bobcat fans can probably live with the fact that they played in three state games in their first 5 years in 3A (02-03, 06-08). That is after moving up, not down in classification as several recent 3A champions have done.

 

I was there when they beat ET speed from Alto, Elysian Fields (x2), Garrison, Pewitt, and Mart. China Spring isnt in ET but they won Region III in 07 so they couldnt have been that bad, at least judging by your standards. I was there when the streak ended in 02 on a mixed xp and the Bobcats lost to the state seminfinalists in Daingerfield, when they were the smallest 3A team. The next year, with our weakest defense since 1987 (statistically) we had a one-dimensional offense and got run over by Gilmer. I talk about that game frequently. People on smoaky have always enjoyed discussing Carthage's 08 win over us, which was certainly a great game and great performance. They seem to forget that despite being overmatched, Celina led after halftime. They also forget that the week before, Celina, at 11-3 a huge underdog to 34-game winning streak Liberty Hill, won 40-12 preventing what most assumed would be an LH-Carthage matchup in Texas Stadium.

 

wasnt there for the 74 Big Sandy game but that was BS's only non-win over a three year stretch (the next year they set the national scoring record, after we held them to a 0-0 tie).

 

Celina is 65-9 in the playoffs since 1995.

 

That tells me that scheduling doesnt matter. If you want, you can tell the UIL to move Celina to Region III where they can be mediocre, but it seems to me that 65-9 has nothing to do with the regular season. Celina had a weak schedule in 98 but still managed to shut out the defending champions Stanton and Chris Harris' EF team back-to-back. Celina apparently had a weak schedule in 05 and OPP was going to show them how weak it had been, and Celina still managed to hold Pewitt to 12. Quick note: Out of the 8 state titles, Celina was favored only once going into the game-against Garrison, who was 12-3 and Celina had won 56 in a row. Every other time, always against a Region III team, regardless of the season Celina had, they were the underdog by a majority of sportswriters and fans. I have seen East Texas speed for 17 years, and more often than not Celina has come out on top when it mattered most. East Texans generally have a short memory unless you are referring to a state championship year for their team. Now we are in 3A and 3A is blessed with a number of excellent ET programs, all of which Celina has respect for.

 

I only bring up the past because you have done so, and to point out that strength of schedule is only worth so much.

 

This year, Celina has a good defense, great running game and a good, but inexperienced dual-threat qb.

 

Celina has had success with young qb's before-Adam Herrin won three state titles as a starter. However, N. Elliott will have a big load to carry with Simmons out, and he has done very well. The good news is that Celina has several very good running backs and should do fine. The key is to limit mistakes and keep their heads in the game. If Elliott gets in the zone early then Henderson is going to have problems because Celina will control the clock all they can. This is classic Bobcat football and it led to the massive upset against LH in 08 (that and a magnificent defensive effort). Henderson will try to disrupt the qb and the offensive rhythm very early; if they don't, Celina's defense is good enough to make it a long night for the Lions. This is not the best Celina team but they are gelling at the right time. They are going to experience adversity this week and if they clear this hurdle, watch out.

[CMETILT]

Not sure how you can determine that Celina's defense is better than Gilmer's? Is that from a historical perspective or comparison of performance against common opponents? Is your determination from this year's statistics or is it the Celina fan special football knowledge that all of you possess? Lovejoy marched down the field on the first drive of the game and in the 3rd quarter, last week. Did Lovejoy have a good offense?

 

 

Lovejoy's offense turned one dimensional because they couldn't run the ball. The drive at the beginning of the 3rd quarter were all pass plays to the same kid. I give credit to the Lovejoy staff for recognizing the mismatch. After that drive, the Celina coaches adjusted and the two subsequent drives were stopped. Vargus broke the long run on the shovel pass and that pretty much ended it.

 

Celina's defense was terrible at the beginning and midway through the season. They have made tremendous strides since then and have improved in every game. It will be interesting to see how they match up with the Henderson receivers as Celina traditionally plays Man-free coverage. They depend on the pass rush to make the QB make a quick throw. If they don't get the pass rush, it will be a long night for the secondary...particularly Bilderback.

[gatordaze]

Not sure how you can determine that Celina's defense is better than Gilmer's? Is that from a historical perspective or comparison of performance against common opponents? Is your determination from this year's statistics or is it the Celina fan special football knowledge that all of you possess? Lovejoy marched down the field on the first drive of the game and in the 3rd quarter, last week. Did Lovejoy have a good offense?

 

 

 

Celina held LL to 61 yards rushing when they averaged 255 for the season. They held them to 200 yards total. Can't "march" too far with 200 total for the game.

 

 

[morroney]

I'm not sure I agree with you on the latter. Yes, some parents move to Celina just for the football program. But not all as you mention. And I disagree with the couple of hundred kids. That's a huge disparity. Lovejoy and Prosper both have 1,000+ kids Celina has 600 or so. Thats a 40% difference and can make a huge difference regarding depth. Especially this time of year.

 

I don't mean this in disrespect, but I live in ET and have never heard Carthage or Gilmer ever mention enrollment numbers. Do you know how many of the 600 are boys? How many are girls? What about the larger schools? I've never heard Lake Travis(4A) complain about Westlake's enrollment (5A), and they play them every year. Enrollment is a number to draw lines between big school, little school and to water down the playoffs with 2 divisions, to allow more kids to call themselves champions in the feel good, self esteem world we live in today.

 

I need to check my post. Did I say all parents move their boys to Celina to play football? Certainly, their is homegrown talent at Celina, but I doubt you would have been nearly as successful without the transplants from surrounding larger towns. To me, none of that really matters, unless you make excuses about playing schools with larger enrollment numbers.