The Move

[DB2point0]

Of all the bantering over the Aggies move to the SEC the last year or so I'd like to see what everybody thinks. Was it a good move or a bad move for the overall program? Please look at the choices, I do hope they are self explanatory....

[WETSU]

Of all the bantering over the Aggies move to the SEC the last year or so I'd like to see what everybody thinks. Was it a good move or a bad move for the overall program? Please look at the choices, I do hope they are self explanatory....

Way too open ended.... From the entire AD or just football? Current or for the rest of all time? From just a success in sports standpoint or from overall benefits like more money, better road games, ext...

 

I'm assuming you mean just current football success judging by your posting history. For current football success, it's a bad move. They won't be competitive for a conference title for 3-4 years minimum. Probably won't truly compete for one until saban and miles retire.

 

I think long term though it's a good move. The money has been rolling in since the move. From donars, ticket sales, soon to be more sec money and SEC Network money. More money equals better coaches and facilities. Better coaches and facilities equals more wins. Football is almost a guarantee you get what you pay for. You go cheap on a coach like the Aggies did with Sherman, you typically get cheap results. The Aggies have the resources to make a splash hire, just have chosen not to. If they ever do, the resources are there to turn the Aggies into a top 10 caliber program. Anyone denying that is not considering the right factors that make a program good.

[DB2point0]

Way too open ended.... From the entire AD or just football? Current or for the rest of all time? From just a success in sports standpoint or from overall benefits like more money, better road games, ext...

 

I'm assuming you mean just current football success judging by your posting history. For current football success, it's a bad move. They won't be competitive for a conference title for 3-4 years minimum. Probably won't truly compete for one until saban and miles retire.

 

I think long term though it's a good move. The money has been rolling in since the move. From donars, ticket sales, soon to be more sec money and SEC Network money. More money equals better coaches and facilities. Better coaches and facilities equals more wins. Football is almost a guarantee you get what you pay for. You go cheap on a coach like the Aggies did with Sherman, you typically get cheap results. The Aggies have the resources to make a splash hire, just have chosen not to. If they ever do, the resources are there to turn the Aggies into a top 10 caliber program. Anyone denying that is not considering the right factors that make a program good.

 

You read that with your feathers ruffled evidently. I SAID......overall program. That includes winning/losing, money donors, student athletes traveling, etc....

 

 

As for your Sherman vs. Sumlin, I'll leave that one alone. Sumlin is unproven IMO.

[WETSU]

You read that with your feathers ruffled evidently. I SAID......overall program. That includes winning/losing, money donors, student athletes traveling, etc....

 

 

As for your Sherman vs. Sumlin, I'll leave that one alone. Sumlin is unproven IMO.

My feathers weren't fluffed. Just a little confused on what "overall program" was intended to imply.

 

I completely agree on you on sumlin though. He is unproven. I think he is doing a decent job on the recruiting front so far, but it's a mystery what he will be like on the field against the sec. Although in his tenure at Houston, he has winning record against teams from BCS conferences. That list of victories includes ranked teams like penn st, Oklahoma St and Texas Tech. Those teams are not Alabama or LSU, but he has way more talent to work with than he did at Houston so we will see...

 

I wasn't big on the hire and am still skeptical. I think his realistic expectations for keeping his job past his 4 year contract should be to go at minimum 6-6, 7-5,8-4, 9-3 in his first 4 years. If he can't win 10 games by year 4, he never will and should be let go. The Aggies are about to nearly double their money once the sec network kicks off. Another hire on the cheap will be the day many donars stop opening the wallets all together.

[SnapTX2]

The Aggies should not have left just because they'll receive more money upfront each year due to the SEC payout to each school annually. I also feel the Ags shouldn't have left the Big 12 to "get out of UT's shadow" or "run from big brother". I think A&M left right at the wrong time. It appears your program was on an upswing in the Big 12 and UT has struggled the last couple of years in football and hasn't faired as well in baseball lately either.

I've said this on this board before and i'll say it again, if A&M was so worried about money flipping win some football games, the south division of the Big 12 (when we had one) and the Big 12 title. You don't see OU whining about money, because they win football games that matter and win the conference regularly, which puts them in BCS bowls with good payouts. Win some games and quit looking for the easy way out, but it's no good saying all that, because the Ags found an easy way to make more money on the front end, but now the program will surely suffer competing in a stronger conference top to bottom.

I am of the opinion that the big donor Ags and top Aggie brass who call the shots had decided they'd never actually compete for the Big 12 championship with UT and OU in their own division and they found the best way to make the most money they could - winning be darned, because i don't think the top Ags believe they'll get any closer to winning a conference, much less national title, in the SEC compared to the Big 12. They just saw an easier road to more money guaranteed and decided not to fight for it in the Big 12 conference when the SEC will just give it to them.

Now, the Big 12 is going to secure a new TV worth tons of money, they split the money equally amongst conference members and i feel the Aggies never should've left.

Ags will be beaten down routinely in the SEC and will wish they'd simply swallowed their pride and battled it out in the Big 12 where they belong. A&M doesn't belong in the SEC anymore than I belong in Istanbul.

[WETSU]

The Aggies should not have left just because they'll receive more money upfront each year due to the SEC payout to each school annually. I also feel the Ags shouldn't have left the Big 12 to "get out of UT's shadow" or "run from big brother". I think A&M left right at the wrong time. It appears your program was on an upswing in the Big 12 and UT has struggled the last couple of years in football and hasn't faired as well in baseball lately either.

I've said this on this board before and i'll say it again, if A&M was so worried about money flipping win some football games, the south division of the Big 12 (when we had one) and the Big 12 title. You don't see OU whining about money, because they win football games that matter and win the conference regularly, which puts them in BCS bowls with good payouts. Win some games and quit looking for the easy way out, but it's no good saying all that, because the Ags found an easy way to make more money on the front end, but now the program will surely suffer competing in a stronger conference top to bottom.

I am of the opinion that the big donor Ags and top Aggie brass who call the shots had decided they'd never actually compete for the Big 12 championship with UT and OU in their own division and they found the best way to make the most money they could - winning be darned, because i don't think the top Ags believe they'll get any closer to winning a conference, much less national title, in the SEC compared to the Big 12. They just saw an easier road to more money guaranteed and decided not to fight for it in the Big 12 conference when the SEC will just give it to them.

Now, the Big 12 is going to secure a new TV worth tons of money, they split the money equally amongst conference members and i feel the Aggies never should've left.

Ags will be beaten down routinely in the SEC and will wish they'd simply swallowed their pride and battled it out in the Big 12 where they belong. A&M doesn't belong in the SEC anymore than I belong in Istanbul.

I respect your opinion, but it's just that. Your opinion. Your opinion that the aggie higher ups opted for the sec for an "easy way to make money" is not accurate. I understand how many Texas fans want to spin it that way, but it's wrong. It's also your opinion they will get pounded by the sec every year. I've watched them play competitive games against Arkansas for the past two years and Arkansas is a top 3-4 caliber sec team. A&M enters the SEC as a middle of the pack 7-9 team next season. More upside than downside... I respect your opinion that they will automatically go towards the downside, but they have just as good of chance to go on the upside.

 

This entire debate comes down to basically Aggies opinions vs big 12 opinions.... Do you honestly think ANY big 12 fan WANTS A&M to succeed in the SEC? Of course not. So logical thinking goes out the window when predicting the Aggies results in the SEC. Logical thinking is.... A&M is a top 25 team in wins and winning percentage. They haw been their worst decade in the last 40 years. They will pull out of it eventually. Look how quickly teams like OSU got competitive at a high level. Who would have believe 5 years ago OSU would have won the big 12 and been arguably the second best team in the country? Who says the Aggies are not capable of a similar turnaround. They have better resources and more support.

[DB2point0]

The Aggies should not have left just because they'll receive more money upfront each year due to the SEC payout to each school annually. I also feel the Ags shouldn't have left the Big 12 to "get out of UT's shadow" or "run from big brother". I think A&M left right at the wrong time. It appears your program was on an upswing in the Big 12 and UT has struggled the last couple of years in football and hasn't faired as well in baseball lately either.

I've said this on this board before and i'll say it again, if A&M was so worried about money flipping win some football games, the south division of the Big 12 (when we had one) and the Big 12 title. You don't see OU whining about money, because they win football games that matter and win the conference regularly, which puts them in BCS bowls with good payouts. Win some games and quit looking for the easy way out, but it's no good saying all that, because the Ags found an easy way to make more money on the front end, but now the program will surely suffer competing in a stronger conference top to bottom.

I am of the opinion that the big donor Ags and top Aggie brass who call the shots had decided they'd never actually compete for the Big 12 championship with UT and OU in their own division and they found the best way to make the most money they could - winning be darned, because i don't think the top Ags believe they'll get any closer to winning a conference, much less national title, in the SEC compared to the Big 12. They just saw an easier road to more money guaranteed and decided not to fight for it in the Big 12 conference when the SEC will just give it to them.

Now, the Big 12 is going to secure a new TV worth tons of money, they split the money equally amongst conference members and i feel the Aggies never should've left.

Ags will be beaten down routinely in the SEC and will wish they'd simply swallowed their pride and battled it out in the Big 12 where they belong. A&M doesn't belong in the SEC anymore than I belong in Istanbul.

 

+1

[DB2point0]

I respect your opinion, but it's just that. Your opinion. Your opinion that the aggie higher ups opted for the sec for an "easy way to make money" is not accurate. I understand how many Texas fans want to spin it that way, but it's wrong. It's also your opinion they will get pounded by the sec every year. I've watched them play competitive games against Arkansas for the past two years and Arkansas is a top 3-4 caliber sec team. A&M enters the SEC as a middle of the pack 7-9 team next season. More upside than downside... I respect your opinion that they will automatically go towards the downside, but they have just as good of chance to go on the upside.

 

This entire debate comes down to basically Aggies opinions vs big 12 opinions.... Do you honestly think ANY big 12 fan WANTS A&M to succeed in the SEC? Of course not. So logical thinking goes out the window when predicting the Aggies results in the SEC. Logical thinking is.... A&M is a top 25 team in wins and winning percentage. They haw been their worst decade in the last 40 years. They will pull out of it eventually. Look how quickly teams like OSU got competitive at a high level. Who would have believe 5 years ago OSU would have won the big 12 and been arguably the second best team in the country? Who says the Aggies are not capable of a similar turnaround. They have better resources and more support.

 

Believe it or not, but people from the state of Texas that are not Aggies like to see all the teams from this wonderful state do well. I like seeing aTm do well. I always pulled for them when not playing UT. I wanted them to win. I hope aTm succeeds in the SEC, but they won't. In 4 years they will be looking for a new coach. OSU stuck with a coach that was building a program and getting the recruits he wanted for his program. OSU could've fired Gundy when he hadn't won 10 games in his first 4 years, but they let him build. It doesn't hurt that they have Pickens in their corner, but wasn't he an Aggie once upon a time???

[sawemoff]

Logical thinking is.... A&M is a top 25 team in wins and winning percentage. They haw been their worst decade in the last 40 years. They will pull out of it eventually. Look how quickly teams like OSU got competitive at a high level. Who would have believe 5 years ago OSU would have won the big 12 and been arguably the second best team in the country? Who says the Aggies are not capable of a similar turnaround. They have better resources and more support.

I can agree with this, but A&M is going to need a game changer on the field. Think of teams to make recent rises to the top.

 

OSU - Dez Bryant, Brandon Weeden, Justin Blackmon

Baylor - Robert Griffin

Oregon - LaMichael James.. etc (who didn't they have on offense?)

Bama - Mark Ingram and Trent Richardson (and many defensive studs)

Auburn - Cam Newton

Stanford - Andrew Luck

Arkansas - Ryan Mallet

Michigan - Denard Robinson

 

I can keep going. All of those teams either recently shot up from nothing or had faded out for a few years.

 

A&M had Von Miller and it was huge for the program, but it's going to take more than a that IMO. Grey and Michael were great players, but I don't really think they were game changers. They benefited from a solid passing attack and guys like Ryan Swope and a solid mobile QB that caused chaos for opposing defenses.

 

I really think the Aggies have a few guys coming in that could be this guy. Obviously I know what Brandon Williams is capable of, but I think once A&M just gets that key player than can light things up and fire up his teammates, they will be able to really compete.

[WETSU]

I can agree with this, but A&M is going to need a game changer on the field. Think of teams to make recent rises to the top.

 

OSU - Dez Bryant, Brandon Weeden, Justin Blackmon

Baylor - Robert Griffin

Oregon - LaMichael James.. etc (who didn't they have on offense?)

Bama - Mark Ingram and Trent Richardson (and many defensive studs)

Auburn - Cam Newton

Stanford - Andrew Luck

Arkansas - Ryan Mallet

Michigan - Denard Robinson

 

I can keep going. All of those teams either recently shot up from nothing or had faded out for a few years.

 

A&M had Von Miller and it was huge for the program, but it's going to take more than a that IMO. Grey and Michael were great players, but I don't really think they were game changers. They benefited from a solid passing attack and guys like Ryan Swope and a solid mobile QB that caused chaos for opposing defenses.

 

I really think the Aggies have a few guys coming in that could be this guy. Obviously I know what Brandon Williams is capable of, but I think once A&M just gets that key player than can light things up and fire up his teammates, they will be able to really compete.

You truly believe Blackmon and Bryant were natural game breakers? I don't. I think they were good athletes and were coached up to be very good players in a very good system. I think fuller had that game breaking ability but was poorly used. I think Michael and gray were capable of it as well but they played for a coach that was horrible at second half adjustments....

 

My point is, Gundy and Dana Holgerson made OSU what they are today, not Bryant and Blackmon. They were great athletes, but the play of one players no matter how good is not going to take a program from typically 8-4 to 12-1. Especially not a WR. Qb maybe....

[DB2point0]

You truly believe Blackmon and Bryant were natural game breakers? I don't. I think they were good athletes and were coached up to be very good players in a very good system. I think fuller had that game breaking ability but was poorly used. I think Michael and gray were capable of it as well but they played for a coach that was horrible at second half adjustments....

 

My point is, Gundy and Dana Holgerson made OSU what they are today, not Bryant and Blackmon. They were great athletes, but the play of one players no matter how good is not going to take a program from typically 8-4 to 12-1. Especially not a WR. Qb maybe....

 

I think Blackmon and Bryant were both better athletes than Fuller.

[sawemoff]

I think Blackmon and Bryant were both better athletes than Fuller.

By far. Fuller was no where near the play maker of those two. I honestly doubt any team had to plain their defensive scheme around stopping Fuller. Blackmon and Bryant were monsters.

[Lhornfan]

You truly believe Blackmon and Bryant were natural game breakers? I don't. I think they were good athletes and were coached up to be very good players in a very good system. I think fuller had that game breaking ability but was poorly used. I think Michael and gray were capable of it as well but they played for a coach that was horrible at second half adjustments....

 

My point is, Gundy and Dana Holgerson made OSU what they are today, not Bryant and Blackmon. They were great athletes, but the play of one players no matter how good is not going to take a program from typically 8-4 to 12-1. Especially not a WR. Qb maybe....

Can't speak for Blackmon as I don't pay attention to Oklahoma high school football, but Dez Bryant was a stud at Lufkin. He had over 2,000 receiving yards his last two years with 25+ TDs. He WAS a game breaker that required special attention at all times.

[Lhornfan]

This is kind of a loaded question because there are a lot of good things that will come out for the Aggie Athletic Program in the SEC, but I personally still don't like the move. As for Aggie football, they will have to be successful right away or at least in the next two years. There are kids that want to play in the SEC, but not if they are not winning. That's why we don't see top Texas high school players going to the mediocre SEC teams for football. They still might go to A&M because it is a university in Texas though. As for the rest of the programs... well I keep reading from Aggies how the SEC is so much better all around. I'm not really going to debate that, but my question as well as other non-Aggie fans is: If the Aggies coldn't get it done in the lowly BIG XII, outside of Women's BBall and Track, why do they think they will be better in a tougher conference?

 

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or condescending; just looking for answers from Aggies.

 

I also don't like the move because I don't like Saban, Miles and company coming into Texas to host recruits. And honestly, I will miss the Thanksgiving match up of the Longhorns and Aggies.

[SnapTX2]

I respect your opinion, but it's just that. Your opinion. Your opinion that the aggie higher ups opted for the sec for an "easy way to make money" is not accurate. I understand how many Texas fans want to spin it that way, but it's wrong. It's also your opinion they will get pounded by the sec every year. I've watched them play competitive games against Arkansas for the past two years and Arkansas is a top 3-4 caliber sec team. A&M enters the SEC as a middle of the pack 7-9 team next season. More upside than downside... I respect your opinion that they will automatically go towards the downside, but they have just as good of chance to go on the upside.

 

This entire debate comes down to basically Aggies opinions vs big 12 opinions.... Do you honestly think ANY big 12 fan WANTS A&M to succeed in the SEC? Of course not. So logical thinking goes out the window when predicting the Aggies results in the SEC. Logical thinking is.... A&M is a top 25 team in wins and winning percentage. They haw been their worst decade in the last 40 years. They will pull out of it eventually. Look how quickly teams like OSU got competitive at a high level. Who would have believe 5 years ago OSU would have won the big 12 and been arguably the second best team in the country? Who says the Aggies are not capable of a similar turnaround. They have better resources and more support.

 

WETSU, how do you know for sure the Ags making the decisions didn't decide to go to the SEC for an easier way to make money - upfront, guaranteed money at that?

 

Talking about the Aggies' future going into the SEC I can see how you can come to the conclusion the Aggies have a good chance to finish middle of the pack next season. However, the Aggies still don't know how to win, and they don't have a seasoned QB to fall back on and teach them how to win. A&M also has a brand new coach taking a huge step up in the competition level he's accustomed to.

I was at the second half implosion that was OSU @ TAMU this past fall. There is a culture at A&M that must be fixed and maybe Sumlin can fix it, but it's A&M's losing mentality. It starts with the players on the field and doesn't stop with the fans as there were groans and grumbling in the stands when OSU began their 2nd half comeback. The Aggie fans started saying to each other "Here we go again" and "We've lost and we're still up by several touchdowns."

Aggies expect to lose and when the Cowboys came all the way back and won when we were walking out of the stadium there was a sense of head hanging acceptance from the Aggie faithful. The fans weren't mad at the team or coaches it didn't seem. They all walked away from Kyle Field to the parking lots in silence as though what they knew would happen did and they'd just grown accustomed to it. That is the biggest hurdle Sumlin and his staff have at Aggieland. The Aggies don't know how to win, because they expect to lose. The Aggies need a charismatic leader on the field like VY was for UT. I know those type players don't come around every recruiting cycle, but the Ags need someone to grab the program and force it win and will the Aggies to victory. That's what Vince did at Texas.

Going into the national championship game I knew the Longhorns were going to win, because we had Vince Young and the Trojans did not.

Quite honestly, UT may need Jonathan Grey or someone to do that very thing again for the UT football program to get them back on track. I know UT made small strides last season and could improve upon that this next season, but it never hurts for a team that doesn't totally believe in themselves to have a player come along and make the entire team and fan base believe. UT couldn't beat OU until VY showed up and then us Longhorn fans started having a lot of fun.

[sawemoff]

For Aggies, it is long term. I don't think any of them expect to compete even at the level they did in the Big 12 in the near future. However, revenue will continue to grow, and so will spending. More more = better facilities and staff = better recruit = more wins = even better recruits = even more wins.

 

But then again, money isn't always the answer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUhRKVIjJtw

[bordertown]

I believe A&M will dominate equestrian in the SEC has as they have in the Big XII. It's a bad move in the long run because it destroyed a rivalry around which fueled the school traditions and the Spirit of Aggieland.

[Lobos2004]

I believe A&M will dominate equestrian in the SEC has as they have in the Big XII. It's a bad move in the long run because it destroyed a rivalry around which fueled the school traditions and the Spirit of Aggieland.

 

Hey, our athletic director said "Any time, anywhere", but DeLoss got his panties in a bunch and doesn't want to play. Who "destroyed" a rivalry here? Oh, and you left off track and field. ;)

[bordertown]

Hey, our athletic director said "Any time, anywhere", but DeLoss got his panties in a bunch and doesn't want to play. Who "destroyed" a rivalry here? Oh, and you left off track and field. ;)

 

You fired your A.D. who it turned out was not not in favor of the move. But to answer your question - Loftin.

 

Track will be competitive, but not a slam dunk. Arkansas has some recent history.

[Lobos2004]

You fired your A.D. who it turned out was not not in favor of the move. But to answer your question - Loftin.

 

Track will be competitive, but not a slam dunk. Arkansas has some recent history.

 

Again, we laid down a challenge, DeLoss ran from it. That means Loftin "destroyed" it, huh?

 

And Arkansas has some recent history? As in 6 national championships in the last 3 years? Oh wait. That's A&M.

[bordertown]

What Loftin & Byrnes did was burn bridges. Have you noticed it wasn't just in Austin? If Texas were the only university shunning A&M, you might have a case. As we both know, Texas is not the only school with a problem with A&M decision.

 

As you learned in physics - for every action there is a reaction.

 

If your happy with the move, that's all that really counts - right?

 

While my Texas fans are sorry to see the rivalry end. It had become secondary to Oklahoma. The vast majority of the Texas fans support Dodds decision. Aggies support Loftin's decision. Therefore we should both agree the rivalry was not as special as the national press seemed to believe.

[Lobos2004]

What Loftin & Byrnes did was burn bridges. Have you noticed it wasn't just in Austin? If Texas were the only university shunning A&M, you might have a case. As we both know, Texas is not the only school with a problem with A&M decision.

 

As you learned in physics - for every action there is a reaction.

 

If your happy with the move, that's all that really counts - right?

 

 

So let me get this straight. A&M says, "We're going to a new conference... We'll play Texas any time, anywhere". Meaning, "We're going to a new conference, but will continue the rivalry".

 

That's not destroying anything.

 

DeLoss says, "We have no reason to play them any more" as if the only reason they played us before was because they we were in the same conference.

 

A&M says, "We'll still play", Texas says, "We don't want to". Who destroyed the rivalry?

 

And yeah, I'm happy with the move and am prepared for a few years of adjusting. I just don't want people throwing out false facts. ;)

[bordertown]

So let me get this straight. A&M says, "We're going to a new conference... We'll play Texas any time, anywhere". Meaning, "We're going to a new conference, but will continue the rivalry".

 

I am well aware that was A&M's position. I think it is a true position of A&M's view.

 

Here is the other side. A&M left to get out of Texas' shadow. Texas' brass told A&M the repercussions of the proposed move. A&M left to SEC as it was more important to the school than a rivalry. A&M thought Texas was bluffing. They were wrong. By continuing the rivalry, A&M would continue to be in Texas' shadow.

 

While I will miss the rivalry, but I agree with Texas, Baylor's & Tech's decision.

 

A&M made their decision to wander in an unknown land.

[h-town12]

I am well aware that was A&M's position. I think it is a true position of A&M's view.

 

Here is the other side. A&M left to get out of Texas' shadow. Texas' brass told A&M the repercussions of the proposed move. A&M left to SEC as it was more important to the school than a rivalry. A&M thought Texas was bluffing. They were wrong. By continuing the rivalry, A&M would continue to be in Texas' shadow.

 

While I will miss the rivalry, but I agree with Texas, Baylor's & Tech's decision.

 

A&M made their decision to wander in an unknown land.

 

 

So are the other Texas schools bitter because A&M is getting a better deal out of the movement?

[bordertown]

So are the other Texas schools bitter because A&M is getting a better deal out of the movement?

 

 

No