Heisman Race

[KirtFalcon]

It's not an argument, it's a fact. Look back at Alabama throughout the Saban era. It's always been a two-back system, and it's been very successful. Why would they get away from that if they had a 2nd back capable of doing the job?

 

With their recruiting, do you really believe Alabama had only ONE outstanding RB in their stable this year? If you believe that, I have some swamp land in Arizona to sell you .... Don't believe me, just wait til the first game next season ... LOL

[Golfingnut]

He does. But I think there are plenty of guys that could put up just as good of numbers, if not better, if they had those same touches. He and Henry had great season, don't get me wrong. But a RB with 8 touchdowns and 5.8 YPA isn't anything unheard. His receiving numbers were good too for a RB, but again, I think there are plenty of guys that could have had just as good of numbers if they got those touches.

McCaffrey had 8 TD's rushing, 4 TD's receiving, 1 kickoff ret TD and passed for 2 TD's. Also you have to remember Stanford had a goalline back that scored 13 TD's. Give those touches to McCaffrey and he has 5 more T D's than Henry. How in the world is that overrated? smh

[sawemoff]

McCaffrey had 8 TD's rushing, 4 TD's receiving, 1 kickoff ret TD and passed for 2 TD's. Also you have to remember Stanford had a goalline back that scored 13 TD's. Give those touches to McCaffrey and he has 5 more T D's than Henry. How in the world is that overrated? smh

 

Maybe, maybe not. He can be very good and still be overrated. Why are you getting so upset about me saying he is overrated? Do you not know what that word means? If that's the case, I completely understand.

 

Am I not entitled to think he isn't one of the best players, even at his own position, in college football? Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't see it.

[Lobo97]

 

Maybe, maybe not. He can be very good and still be overrated. Why are you getting so upset about me saying he is overrated? Do you not know what that word means? If that's the case, I completely understand.

 

Am I not entitled to think he isn't one of the best players, even at his own position, in college football? Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't see it.

I don't think anyone is getting upset, I simply think that it's just a matter of no one understanding the argument of him being overrated? Overrated how? So far you've only made two arguments...

 

1) "I think there are plenty of guys that could put up just as good of numbers, if not better, if they had those same touches." Isn't that a bit hard to argue seeing how no one has put up the numbers he did....EVER?! And I'm pretty sure many players have had the touches during that time span.

 

2) Staying with the same argument, "I think there are plenty of guys that could put up just as good of numbers", any one of us can make the exact same argument about Baker Mayfield too. As a matter of fact, we see QB's that DO put up just as good of numbers, AND better, every year. That didn't stop you from arguing that he should've been a heisman candidate. That didn't stop you from saying you thought he'd win the Davey O'Brian award (which he didn't win that either). That didn't stop you from calling him the most polarizing player since Johnny Manziel. And before you say it again, it's the argument that makes bringing Mayfield into this relevant.

 

 

If you think he's overrated, then fine, that's your opinion. But the arguments you've made so far to support it just don't make sense.

[sawemoff]

I don't think anyone is getting upset, I simply think that it's just a matter of no one understanding the argument of him being overrated? Overrated how? So far you've only made two arguments...

 

1) "I think there are plenty of guys that could put up just as good of numbers, if not better, if they had those same touches." Isn't that a bit hard to argue seeing how no one has put up the numbers he did....EVER?! And I'm pretty sure many players have had the touches during that time span.

 

2) Staying with the same argument, "I think there are plenty of guys that could put up just as good of numbers", any one of us can make the exact same argument about Baker Mayfield too. As a matter of fact, we see QB's that DO put up just as good of numbers, AND better, every year. That didn't stop you from arguing that he should've been a heisman candidate. That didn't stop you from saying you thought he'd win the Davey O'Brian award (which he didn't win that either). That didn't stop you from calling him the most polarizing player since Johnny Manziel. And before you say it again, it's the argument that makes bringing Mayfield into this relevant.

 

 

If you think he's overrated, then fine, that's your opinion. But the arguments you've made so far to support it just don't make sense.

 

This has nothing to do with Baker, who I never said should win the Heisman, only that I think it's silly they only invited three people and thought he had a good enough season with enough Heisman moments to get an invite. From a passer standpoint, I'm sure many guys could put up Baker's numbers, but this award is more than just comparing stat sheets. I stand by what I said regarding Baker as the most polarizing player since Manziel. This is something that pretty much everyone in the country agrees with. By the way, Baker has been named 1st or second team All-American by almost every publication.

 

As for McCaffery, I'm saying from a talent standpoint, I don't think he is one of the best players in college football. Henry, Cook and Fournette are vastly superior at the running back position.

 

As for touches, how many teams use their feature back on kick and punt return? Very few. Not because they aren't good enough, but because they aren't going to risk them getting injured on special teams. No one has put up the numbers he has because no teams use players like Stanford used him. It may very well be because he was that good, I'm just saying I don't see it.

 

The only reason he was even invited to the Heisman ceremony was because he returned 36 (second most in the country) kickoffs and got some good yardage off those. His kick off numbers were great, but nothing unheard of and not even the best this season. The guy from K State had more yards and more TDs on 5 fewer returns than McCaffery, but he was a corner back.

 

Also, as far as the record, give me a break. Sanders set that in 11 games and rushed for 2,628 yards and 37 touchdowns. That doesn't even include his bowl game where he added another 222 yards and 5 touchdowns (three short of what McCaffery rushed for in the entire season). He finished the year with over 2800 rushing yards alone and 44 total touchdowns.

 

If anything, him breaking the record just shows how overrated he is because there isn't a person alive who would pick McCaffery over Sanders to be on their team.

[Lobo97]

 

This has nothing to do with Baker, who I never said should win the Heisman, only that I think it's silly they only invited three people and thought he had a good enough season with enough Heisman moments to get an invite. From a passer standpoint, I'm sure many guys could put up Baker's numbers, but this award is more than just comparing stat sheets. I stand by what I said regarding Baker as the most polarizing player since Manziel. This is something that pretty much everyone in the country agrees with. By the way, Baker has been named 1st or second team All-American by almost every publication.

 

As for McCaffery, I'm saying from a talent standpoint, I don't think he is one of the best players in college football. Henry, Cook and Fournette are vastly superior at the running back position.

 

As for touches, how many teams use their feature back on kick and punt return? Very few. Not because they aren't good enough, but because they aren't going to risk them getting injured on special teams. No one has put up the numbers he has because no teams use players like Stanford used him. It may very well be because he was that good, I'm just saying I don't see it.

 

The only reason he was even invited to the Heisman ceremony was because he returned 36 (second most in the country) kickoffs and got some good yardage off those. His kick off numbers were great, but nothing unheard of and not even the best this season. The guy from K State had more yards and more TDs on 5 fewer returns than McCaffery, but he was a corner back.

 

Also, as far as the record, give me a break. Sanders set that in 11 games and rushed for 2,628 yards and 37 touchdowns. That doesn't even include his bowl game where he added another 222 yards and 5 touchdowns (three short of what McCaffery rushed for in the entire season). He finished the year with over 2800 rushing yards alone and 44 total touchdowns.

 

If anything, him breaking the record just shows how overrated he is because there isn't a person alive who would pick McCaffery over Sanders to be on their team.

Not that I'm arguing that McCaffrey is better than Henry, Cook, or Fournette, but you do realize he only avg'd a tenth of a yard less than Henry right? So even if all you look at is his rushing numbers, he is still up there. But to say he isn't one of the most talented players is simply ridiculous. You can make the argument that no one else puts their lead back on the kick and punt return game bc they're concerned with injury all you want, but Stanford put him there because he IS talented. He was the best player on the team, so they put the ball in his hands any way they could.

And that's the thing, you keep focusing on the RB position. McCaffrey didn't go to New York and finish 2nd in voting based on McCaffrey the RB. He went to NY and finished 2nd in voting because of McCaffrey the athlete!

 

No one has said McCaffrey is better than Sanders. To even make that argument would be ridiculous. But the fact is, he DID break his record. It doesn't matter if he played 2 more games, it doesn't matter that Sanders did it from one dimension. The fact is, NO ONE has broken the record until now...and McCaffrey is NOT the first player since then to play in 13 games! THAT is why he was in NY. And that is why calling him overrated is ridiculous.

[sawemoff]

Again, I don't think you guys understand what it means to be overrated. I'm not saying he wasn't the MVP this year and the best all-purpose player. I've said he was great and very good. That doesn't mean he can't be overrated. Heck, I think Adrian Peterson is a bit overrated.

 

Also, tell me more about those great rush defenses in the PAC 12, since you want to compare his YPC with Henry. Stanford is literally the only PAC12 team known to just pound the rock. Did you know McCaffery leads the country in rush yards before contact? And it isn't even close.

[sawemoff]

If you could pick any player in CFB to start a team, is McCaffery your first pick? Second?

[DB2point0]

It doesn't matter who had the most rushing yards compared to kickoff returns or even passing and receiving yards. The record McCaffrey broke of Sander's was all purpose yards which includes everything, so someone saying Sanders had 3000 rushing yards is not an argument as to which player is better or which accomplishment means more. Bottom line if McCaffrey played in the SEC or Big10 he would get more respect from voters.

I personally feel the Heisman trust allows too much influence by ESPN thus the sec love fest wins out. Henry is a great back, but McCaffrey does it all. This award was Henry's weeks ago and voters who don't keep up with it could be swayed by the constant praise that ESPN gave Henry and Alabama.

If you could pick any player in CFB to start a team, is McCaffery your first pick? Second?

Would Henry be yours?

[Sportsfanatic1]

I personally feel the Heisman trust allows too much influence by ESPN thus the sec love fest wins out. Henry is a great back, but McCaffrey does it all. This award was Henry's weeks ago and voters who don't keep up with it could be swayed by the constant praise that ESPN gave Henry and Alabama.

 

Would Henry be yours?

How did Mariota,Bush,Leinart,etc,etc and etc win it then. Did the SEC love fest just go away all those years?

[Sportsfanatic1]

Winston,RG3,Bradford should I carry on?

[DB2point0]

How did Mariota,Bush,Leinart,etc,etc and etc win it then. Did the SEC love fest just go away all those years?

Have u watched ESPN the last 4-5 weeks?

 

Bush/leinhart were before the sec propping began. Remember they both played on the "greatest college team ever" as proclaimed by ESPN. More propping by ESPN. They can push who they want.

 

Second part.... Would Henry be your first pick?

[Sportsfanatic1]

Have u watched ESPN the last 4-5 weeks?

 

Bush/leinhart were before the sec propping began. Remember they both played on the "greatest college team ever" as proclaimed by ESPN. More propping by ESPN. They can push who they want.

 

Second part.... Would Henry be your first pick?

But did it go away win Winston won it?

[DB2point0]

Winston,RG3,Bradford should I carry on?

Those 3 truly were the best in college football, and iirc tebow was a close 2nd with lots of ESPN love

[Sportsfanatic1]

Those 3 truly were the best in college football, and iirc tebow was a close 2nd with lots of ESPN love

But your saying the Stanford kid was truly the best player in CF so how did he not win it?

[DB2point0]

But your saying the Stanford kid was truly the best player in CF so how did he not win it?

As I said before, this award was won the last 4-5 weeks on sports center, college football live, etc.

 

I'd say fournette is a better and more complete back than Henry, he just played on a team that was far more one dimensional than bama

[Sportsfanatic1]

As I said before, this award was won the last 4-5 weeks on sports center, college football live, etc.

 

I'd say fournette is a better and more complete back than Henry, he just played on a team that was far more one dimensional than bama

I agree on the Fournette statement.Best back in CF IMO.

[Valhalla]

If you could pick any player in CFB to start a team, is McCaffery your first pick? Second?

Running back would probably be one of the last positions I would pick.

[DB2point0]

I agree on the Fournette statement.Best back in CF IMO.

Perine up there too

[sawemoff]

Early voting is a joke too. 15% of ballots were sent in before conference championship weekend.

[DB2point0]

Running back would probably be one of the last positions I would pick.

Fournette, Perine, Cook, Chubb, McCaffrey all are as good at RB if not better than Henry. They all help in the passing game too. Cook stayed dinged up, Chubb got hurt. The minute lsu lost ESPN dropped fournette out of the race just about altogether. Perine never got any notice.

 

Henry was just the only sec hopeful on a decent albeit one dimensional team.