RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 No need to go to the OT to justify praising God with song and instruments. Nothing in the New Testament prohibits musical instruments either ... Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16 Gods silence prohibits it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirtFalcon Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16 Gods silence prohibits it....... Silence prohibits it? What else does silence prohibit? Just musical instruments? Where did you get that idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 Silence prohibits it? What else does silence prohibit? Just musical instruments? Where did you get that idea? God doesn't have to give a list of what you can't do whenever He tells you what TO do.........when He told Noah to use gopher wood to build the ark, that prohibited the use of any other type of wood......when He told New Testament Christians to SING, that prohibited any other type of music making...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirtFalcon Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 God doesn't have to give a list of what you can't do whenever He tells you what TO do.........when He told Noah to use gopher wood to build the ark, that prohibited the use of any other type of wood......when He told New Testament Christians to SING, that prohibited any other type of music making...... So now you speak for God, you know what silence prohibits and what it doesn't prohibit? You assume he was prohibiting musical instruments? Silence doesn't prohibit musical instruments any more than it prohibits round offering collection plates or the King James version of the bible ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 So now you speak for God, you know what silence prohibits and what it doesn't prohibit? You assume he was prohibiting musical instruments? Silence doesn't prohibit musical instruments any more than it prohibits round offering collection plates or the King James version of the bible ... You have no idea how to rightly handle scripture.........when He told Noah to use gopher wood, He didn't have to list what wood he couldn't use.....the command to use gopher wood excluded all other forms of wood.......the command to sing likewise excludes all other forms of music.....He doesn't have to list what you can't do when He already told you what TO do...... Your absurd arguments about collection plates and Bible versions goes further toward showing that you have absolutely no idea at all how to that'll handle scripture......he told Noah to build an ark, but didn't mention tools because the use of tools is logically inferred.....using tools did not change the command to build the ark in any way.......same thing with Bible versions.......instruments DO change the command to SING, and are not acceptable to God.....I don't speak for a Him at all.....I REPEAT what He has already said............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirtFalcon Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 You have no idea how to rightly handle scripture.........when He told Noah to use gopher wood, He didn't have to list what wood he couldn't use.....the command to use gopher wood excluded all other forms of wood.......the command to sing likewise excludes all other forms of music.....He doesn't have to list what you can't do when He already told you what TO do...... Your absurd arguments about collection plates and Bible versions goes further toward showing that you have absolutely no idea at all how to that'll handle scripture......he told Noah to build an ark, but didn't mention tools because the use of tools is logically inferred.....using tools did not change the command to build the ark in any way.......same thing with Bible versions.......instruments DO change the command to SING, and are not acceptable to God.....I don't speak for a Him at all.....I REPEAT what He has already said............ You are the one twisting scripture to fit your flawed agenda. Telling Noah specifically to use gopher wood was very specific and you are correct on that point, Noah was to only use gopher wood. That's simple enough. How you concoct the flawed doctrine that "sing" excludes musical instruments is ridiculous. Just as building an ark infers tools will be used, you can also infer that someone would sing accompanied by musical instruments. The bible is full of references of instruments being used to praise god along with singing. By declaring "silence" prohibits musical instruments you are ADDING something to God's Word that he didn't say or intend, except in your flawed doctrine ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 You are the one twisting scripture to fit your flawed agenda. Telling Noah specifically to use gopher wood was very specific and you are correct on that point, Noah was to only use gopher wood. That's simple enough. How you concoct the flawed doctrine that "sing" excludes musical instruments is ridiculous. Just as building an ark infers tools will be used, you can also infer that someone would sing accompanied by musical instruments. The bible is full of references of instruments being used to praise god along with singing. By declaring "silence" prohibits musical instruments you are ADDING something to God's Word that he didn't say or intend, except in your flawed doctrine ... The tools Noah used did NOT change the command to build the ark in any way.......the instruments you are trying to add to God's Word CHANGES the command to sing.......you are the one who has no understanding at all of scriptural authority for practices in worship.....God has NEVER allowed anyone to worship Him on their own terms.....He has ALWAYS spelled out how He wants to be worshipped.....by saying SING, He meant SING........You show me ONE instrument used in the worship of the New Testament church on Earth that is mentioned, and you win this one.........Just ONE from Acts 1 to Jude.........if you can't find one, then you have added to God's Word.........end of story........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirtFalcon Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 The tools Noah used did NOT change the command to build the ark in any way.......the instruments you are trying to add to God's Word CHANGES the command to sing.......you are the one who has no understanding at all of scriptural authority for practices in worship.....God has NEVER allowed anyone to worship Him on their own terms.....He has ALWAYS spelled out how He wants to be worshipped.....by saying SING, He meant SING........You show me ONE instrument used in the worship of the New Testament church on Earth that is mentioned, and you win this one.........Just ONE from Acts 1 to Jude.........if you can't find one, then you have added to God's Word.........end of story........ You arrogantly speaking for God assuming "silence" prohibits musical instruments is ridiculous. You have nothing to base your flawed thinking on that "SING" somehow prohibits musical instruments, it's totally baseless. God has also spelled out how we are to worship him and you can't show me one piece of scripture that specifically authorizes the various versions of the bible (King James, NIV, etc.) being used today to teach his Word. Whey aren't they prohibited since God didn't name them? You are the one adding a prohibition, not God .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 You arrogantly speaking for God assuming "silence" prohibits musical instruments is ridiculous. You have nothing to base your flawed thinking on that "SING" somehow prohibits musical instruments, it's totally baseless. God has also spelled out how we are to worship him and you can't show me one piece of scripture that specifically authorizes the various versions of the bible (King James, NIV, etc.) being used today to teach his Word. Whey aren't they prohibited since God didn't name them? You are the one adding a prohibition, not God .... I'm not "assuming" anything....God has SHOWN that silence is prohibitive......He told Naaman to dip in the Jordan to be healed....Naaman didn't have to be told not to dip in any other river.......the only one that was authorized by God was the Jordan.......he told the First Century Christians to SING.....we don't have to be told not to use instruments.......the only form of music authorized by God is vocalization....... The command to TEACH in Matthew 28 doesn't list the ways that we can carry out that command......we are free to use anything we wish that DOES NOT CHANGE THE COMMAND.....same with the command to SING......we are free to use song books and song leaders and anything ELSE to aid us in carrying out that command that DOES NOT CHANGE THE COMMAND.....you will find out for the worse which of us is rightly handling God's Word on this matter.....I would not want to be you trying to explain where you found an instrument when none are present.......Just like Noah's tools which were not specified, we are free to use any tool we need to carry out a command AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE COMMAND........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirtFalcon Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I'm not "assuming" anything....God has SHOWN that silence is prohibitive......He told Naaman to dip in the Jordan to be healed....Naaman didn't have to be told not to dip in any other river.......the only one that was authorized by God was the Jordan.......he told the First Century Christians to SING.....we don't have to be told not to use instruments.......the only form of music authorized by God is vocalization....... The command to TEACH in Matthew 28 doesn't list the ways that we can carry out that command......we are free to use anything we wish that DOES NOT CHANGE THE COMMAND.....same with the command to SING......we are free to use song books and song leaders and anything ELSE to aid us in carrying out that command that DOES NOT CHANGE THE COMMAND.....you will find out for the worse which of us is rightly handling God's Word on this matter.....I would not want to be you trying to explain where you found an instrument when none are present.......Just like Noah's tools which were not specified, we are free to use any tool we need to carry out a command AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE COMMAND........ You are again misrepresenting scripture. The examples you use about Noah and Naaman were specific and you are correct about those. They are not similar to your concoction where "sing" prohibits musical instruments. That is your flawed interpretation, not God's command. Using a musical instrument does not change God's command to sing, it's just something you have added to the scripture that just isn't there .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETXfan16 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Does the New Testament forbade us to play instruments? No. Does it command us to? No. Therefore, as long as our worship is used to praise God, He is pleased. If you notice, I am not "going to the OT for authority"... This is understanding the Bible. And before you condemn me for not believing exactly what you believe, no I don't sacrifice bulls every month. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice and paid the price for me, so I could have everlasting life. And I will sing praises to him playing my guitar on the back porch or in the church, and He will be praised and glorified either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftysix Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 The fact that the New Testament nowhere condemns musical instruments indicates that the Old Testament practice was continued in the New Testament church. The early church was comprised almost entirely of Jews. It is highly likely that they continued using musical instruments in the church, just as they did in Old Testament worship. Seriously?? There is no logic in any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETXfan16 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I believe that the New Testament does not forbid, nor commands us to use instruments. That was the point I was trying to make from posting that article. As far as the Jews reference, I think that was the author of the articles viewpoint, which I do believe is a logical point. I don't really see how there is "no logic" in that, Other than you reading something that doesn't fit your beliefs. Which I think is the case here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveTV1 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Yet some folks go to the Old Testament worship in an attempt to justify their use of instruments in New Testament worship.......if they are going to seek authority in the OT for practices in their worship, they have to take it all, not just the things they like......so I ask again, do you folks who go to the OT to find authority for instruments also perform the commanded sacrifices? If not, why not??? The only things that are mentioned in the New Testament that were done away with was animal sacrifices and dietary laws. Those are the only two things that are mentioned. Matthew 5: 17-48 States that Christ did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. The Ten Commandments are still in place, but they were added upon in those scriptures. Baptism is not mentioned except vaguely in the Old Testament, yet we know it existed otherwise why was John the Baptist baptizing people, and why did Jesus Christ who was without sin need to be baptized ? To fulfill all righteousness as He stated. As long as the music is uplifting and praising God I can not condemn musical instruments. The Lord did not state anywhere in the New Testament that it is condemned, and that is the reason that I have no problem with it. In some ways as pointed out with the various words used in Greek that are translated that musical instruments are acceptable. As I have said I have been moved by the Spirit with music praising God with using instruments and a capella. I do wonder how someone can sing a capella without hearing a song used with instruments. They would have to know either sheet music to stay in key or have heard it used with instruments to stay in key. With musical instruments a song can be changed, and we can hear a cover of a song differently than how it was played before. It's usually in the same key, but with different nuances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveTV1 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 You are the one twisting scripture to fit your flawed agenda. Telling Noah specifically to use gopher wood was very specific and you are correct on that point, Noah was to only use gopher wood. That's simple enough. How you concoct the flawed doctrine that "sing" excludes musical instruments is ridiculous. Just as building an ark infers tools will be used, you can also infer that someone would sing accompanied by musical instruments. The bible is full of references of instruments being used to praise god along with singing. By declaring "silence" prohibits musical instruments you are ADDING something to God's Word that he didn't say or intend, except in your flawed doctrine ... Especially when the Greek translation hints at using musical instruments. You can't pluck or strum a vocal chord, unless you never want to sing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveTV1 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 You arrogantly speaking for God assuming "silence" prohibits musical instruments is ridiculous. You have nothing to base your flawed thinking on that "SING" somehow prohibits musical instruments, it's totally baseless. God has also spelled out how we are to worship him and you can't show me one piece of scripture that specifically authorizes the various versions of the bible (King James, NIV, etc.) being used today to teach his Word. Whey aren't they prohibited since God didn't name them? You are the one adding a prohibition, not God .... We might as well have our church sermons in Aramaic, since that's the only way they were taught in the New Testament, but the New Testament was written in Greek. Why was it written in Greek when the words of Jesus Christ were spoken in Aramaic ???? Today Aramaic is almost extinct as Latin and Ancient Greek is : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2268204/Race-save-language-Jesus-Aramaic-danger-extinct-number-speakers-ancient-tongue-plummets.html . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 You are again misrepresenting scripture. The examples you use about Noah and Naaman were specific and you are correct about those. They are not similar to your concoction where "sing" prohibits musical instruments. That is your flawed interpretation, not God's command. Using a musical instrument does not change God's command to sing, it's just something you have added to the scripture that just isn't there .... Examples are examples........the only one misrepresenting scripture is you.......you added instruments that are not there....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 Does the New Testament forbade us to play instruments? No. Does it command us to? No. Therefore, as long as our worship is used to praise God, He is pleased. If you notice, I am not "going to the OT for authority"... This is understanding the Bible. And before you condemn me for not believing exactly what you believe, no I don't sacrifice bulls every month. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice and paid the price for me, so I could have everlasting life. And I will sing praises to him playing my guitar on the back porch or in the church, and He will be praised and glorified either way. Find me most ONE instrument used in the worship of Christians in the New Testament Church on earth......I'm still waiting....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 Seriously?? There is no logic in any of this. He forgot what God said in Amos....... Amos 5:23English Standard Version (ESV) 23 Take away from me the noise of your songs; to the melody of your harps I will not listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 Especially when the Greek translation hints at using musical instruments. You can't pluck or strum a vocal chord, unless you never want to sing again. You pluck your heart, if you really read the Greek translation properly...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirtFalcon Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Examples are examples........the only one misrepresenting scripture is you.......you added instruments that are not there....... Wrong, you are adding a prohibition that isn't there .... you are a false prophet and are distorting God's Word ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 Wrong, you are adding a prohibition that isn't there .... you are a false prophet and are distorting God's Word ... You will find out......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirtFalcon Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 You will find out......... I already know, your adding something to God's Word is false doctrine .... plain and simple .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 I already know, your adding something to God's Word is false doctrine .... plain and simple .... So I post the scriptures that say sing........I say the same thing God said, that we should sing.......you find nonexistent instruments and say we can play them along with our singing......but I am the one adding to Gods Word and teaching false doctrine??? You are in for one huge surprise when you die or when the Lord returns, whichever comes first.......since you are incapable of looking up scripture, or are deliberately avoiding it,the next post I put on this topic will show every passage of scripture from the New Testament dealing with how the New Testament records the command to SING as being carried out by them.......show me THEN who has added to Gods Word....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 Acts 16:25English Standard Version (ESV) 25 About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them, Romans 15:9English Standard Version (ESV) 9 and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written, “Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles, and sing to your name.” 1 Corinthians 14:15English Standard Version (ESV) 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. Ephesians 5:19English Standard Version (ESV) 19 addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, Colossians 3:16English Standard Version (ESV) 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Hebrews 2:12English Standard Version (ESV) 12 saying, “I will tell of your name to my brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.” James 5:13English Standard Version (ESV) 13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. Until you show me an instrument, YOU are the one adding to Gods Word no matter how your satanic mind tries to twist Scripture..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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