Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Why so many people are stuck up Brady's butt, I have no idea. Wait, yes I do...because he's won 4 SB's. But oh yea, that's a TEAM achievement! How many of those SB's did Brady have to lead NE down the field and put it in the endzone? Driving 30-40 yards downfield for a fg (when the defense can't touch you) is not quite the same as driving 90+ yards down the field with less than 2 minutes for a TD! If you want to place Brady on that pedestal because of rings...then I guess Robert Horry should be placed up there with Jordan...yea, it's that stupid.

Robert Horry is not a super star.

We've seen what the Pats can do (with the same roster, minus the QB) without Brady! I don't need anymore proof than that.

 

As for as saying everyone remembers the past. I'd have to HIGHLY disagree. I would say that more people rank players they've seen more recent than they do players that played before.

 

Montana, P Manning, Bradshaw, Staubach, S Young, Marino, Elway, Favre, Unitas, Bart Starr, Moon, Otto Graham...Hell, even Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. I'd rank every one of them above Brady! With what they were each able to do, with what they did or didn't have around them, and when they did it, they're all better than Brady.

 

You can't breathe on Brady without him screaming for a flag! Peyton is the same way along with every other qb.You really think he could have done what he does today back when defenses could have actually hit him!!! Hell, he looks no better than average when you put him against the top defenses now.That can be said about every qb. What made each and every one of the QB's great that I listed is they all did it over their entire careers, in the face of adversity, with poor talent around them (obviously only in some cases), and regardless of their opponents.

 

The team that went 11-5 without Brady didn't even make the playoffs.

 

I'm confused. You put all these new era QB's above Brady but neither of them have better stats than him except Peyton. Peyton has more years of playing than Brady, less playoff wins, more int's, and probably less TD's. Brady only had one great receiver in his life and that was Moss. When Moss came into the picture he broke the all time record for TD's thrown in a regular season. 50 to be exact. Peyton has always had great players around him. Brady not so much. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but Brady is top 5 all time. If you can't see that well I don't know what to say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The team that went 11-5 without Brady didn't even make the playoffs.

 

I'm confused. You put all these new era QB's above Brady but neither of them have better stats than him except Peyton. Peyton has more years of playing than Brady, less playoff wins, more int's, and probably less TD's. Brady only had one great receiver in his life and that was Moss. When Moss came into the picture he broke the all time record for TD's thrown in a regular season. 50 to be exact. Peyton has always had great players around him. Brady not so much. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but Brady is top 5 all time. If you can't see that well I don't know what to say.

 

+1

 

But Peyton has more Tds than Brady for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

+1

 

But Peyton has more Tds than Brady for now.

 

 

I'm talking about TD's in the playoffs.

Brady has 28 TD's and 15 int's

Manning has 27 TD's and 17 int's

I didn't include the 2011 playoff stats because he has one more game to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The team that went 11-5 without Brady didn't even make the playoffs.

 

I'm confused. You put all these new era QB's above Brady but neither of them have better stats than him except Peyton. Peyton has more years of playing than Brady, less playoff wins, more int's, and probably less TD's. Brady only had one great receiver in his life and that was Moss. When Moss came into the picture he broke the all time record for TD's thrown in a regular season. 50 to be exact. Peyton has always had great players around him. Brady not so much. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but Brady is top 5 all time. If you can't see that well I don't know what to say.

 

 

First and foremost, you CLEARLY missed the point about Robert Horry. For you to reply, "Robert Horry was no super start".....THAT was the point!!!

 

Secondly, Peyton (nor any other QB in the NFL for that matter), has an entire rule book named after them for it!

 

As for the comment you left above, whether NE made the playoffs that year is a moot point. The fact that 5 teams won 11 or more games that year in the AFC and every division winner makes the postseason (8-8 SD was the 6th team in), has nothing to do with how good NE still was even without Brady. The point is, they still won 11 games without him....The Colts barely won 2 without Peyton!

 

Lastly, a persons opinions about an athlete are not based soley on stats. It's also how they do it, who they have around them, how smart they are in the game, how much better they make everyone else on the team, how much the mean to the team....if you believe Brady is more responsible for the success of his team than Manning (even after seeing each team without both)....then I don't know what else to say. Except Brady is not a top 5 all time QB!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First and foremost, you CLEARLY missed the point about Robert Horry. For you to reply, "Robert Horry was no super start".....THAT was the point!!!

 

Secondly, Peyton (nor any other QB in the NFL for that matter), has an entire rule book named after them for it!

 

As for the comment you left above, whether NE made the playoffs that year is a moot point. The fact that 5 teams won 11 or more games that year in the AFC and every division winner makes the postseason (8-8 SD was the 6th team in), has nothing to do with how good NE still was even without Brady. The point is, they still won 11 games without him....The Colts barely won 2 without Peyton!

 

Lastly, a persons opinions about an athlete are not based soley on stats. It's also how they do it, who they have around them, how smart they are in the game, how much better they make everyone else on the team, how much the mean to the team....if you believe Brady is more responsible for the success of his team than Manning (even after seeing each team without both)....then I don't know what else to say. Except Brady is not a top 5 all time QB!

 

If Brady is not top 5 all time well no one is. Brady has always done more with less. Type up Brady and and Peyton and see what comes up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Brady is not top 5 all time well no one is. Brady has always done more with less. Type up Brady and and Peyton and see what comes up.

 

 

I'm sorry, but that seriously sounds like the reply of a 5 year old. And I'm not trying to call you a child, but seriously...it's a sports debate. You have your reasons and opinions, I have mine.

 

As for saying Brady has done more with less, I think that is a HUGE matter of opinion. A "Teams" success is not based soley on the offense. Look at Brady's first 4 SB appearances...The defense was one of the top defenses Every year....6th, 1st, 2nd, and 4th! Peyton has Rarely had a top defense in Indy.

 

Now as for as the side of the ball that matters towards their individual success....So you're saying you don't think Troy Brown, Deion Branch, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and even now, Gronk and Hernandez, are great players??? If you say no to that, then I would say that ends this debate.

As for Peyton, I would bet everything I have to say that players like Austin Collie, Piere Garcon', Anthony Gonzalez, etc. would have never been known if it weren't for Manning. As for players like Reggie Wayne, well even as great as he may be, shouldn't that mean that at least one of the 3 QB's to start for Indy this year should have been able to get him the ball?

 

Again, 11-5 and 2-14! Is there really any other stat or opinion that either of us, Anyone for that matter, can list to show exactly how many wins those two QB's are worth to their teams?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, but that seriously sounds like the reply of a 5 year old. And I'm not trying to call you a child, but seriously...it's a sports debate. You have your reasons and opinions, I have mine.

 

As for saying Brady has done more with less, I think that is a HUGE matter of opinion. A "Teams" success is not based soley on the offense. Look at Brady's first 4 SB appearances...The defense was one of the top defenses Every year....6th, 1st, 2nd, and 4th! Peyton has Rarely had a top defense in Indy.

 

Now as for as the side of the ball that matters towards their individual success....So you're saying you don't think Troy Brown, Deion Branch, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and even now, Gronk and Hernandez, are great players?U?? If you say no to that, then I would say that ends this debate.

As for Peyton, I would bet everything I have to say that players like Austin Collie, Piere Garcon', Anthony Gonzalez, etc. would have never been known if it weren't for Manning. As for players like Reggie Wayne, well even as great as he may be, shouldn't that mean that at least one of the 3 QB's to start for Indy this year should have been able to get him the ball?

 

Again, 11-5 and 2-14! Is there really any other stat or opinion that either of us, Anyone for that matter, can list to show exactly how many wins those two QB's are worth to their teams?

 

You are forgetting Manning had Harrison for most of his career, forgetting Dallas Clark one of the best tight ends of the past decade, and Manning had Edge for a while who is much better than any tailback that Brady has had. Brady really only had Moss for one season and threw 50 Tds. Welker is just as much a product of Brady as Garcion and Collie are of Manning.

 

Just out of curiosity, who are your top 5 Qbs of all time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, but that seriously sounds like the reply of a 5 year old. And I'm not trying to call you a child, but seriously...it's a sports debate. You have your reasons and opinions, I have mine.

 

As for saying Brady has done more with less, I think that is a HUGE matter of opinion. A "Teams" success is not based soley on the offense. Look at Brady's first 4 SB appearances...The defense was one of the top defenses Every year....6th, 1st, 2nd, and 4th! Peyton has Rarely had a top defense in Indy.

 

Now as for as the side of the ball that matters towards their individual success....So you're saying you don't think Troy Brown, Deion Branch, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and even now, Gronk and Hernandez, are great players??? If you say no to that, then I would say that ends this debate.

As for Peyton, I would bet everything I have to say that players like Austin Collie, Piere Garcon', Anthony Gonzalez, etc. would have never been known if it weren't for Manning. As for players like Reggie Wayne, well even as great as he may be, shouldn't that mean that at least one of the 3 QB's to start for Indy this year should have been able to get him the ball?

 

Again, 11-5 and 2-14! Is there really any other stat or opinion that either of us, Anyone for that matter, can list to show exactly how many wins those two QB's are worth to their teams?

 

How does that sound like a reply from five year old. Saying Brady is not a top five QB sounds like a HATER. Brady had a streak 335 pass attempts before throwing a int last year. Brady is second all time in playoff wins behind Montana. Brady 77% playoff winning percentage is third all time behind Starr 9-1 and Big Ben 10-2. Brady TD to int ratio 2.53. It's the best all time. The list goes on. Troy Brown, Deion Branch, Wes Welker are nothing without Brady. None of those guys are going to the hall of fame. When is the last time the Patriots had a thousand yard back. If you don't like Brady just say you don't like him. But to say he is not top five all time shows me you know nothing about football are you have been living under a rock the last ten + years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How does that sound like a reply from five year old. Saying Brady is not a top five QB sounds like a HATER. Brady had a streak 335 pass attempts before throwing a int last year. Brady is second all time in playoff wins behind Montana. Brady 77% playoff winning percentage is third all time behind Starr 9-1 and Big Ben 10-2. Brady TD to int ratio 2.53. It's the best all time. The list goes on. Troy Brown, Deion Branch, Wes Welker are nothing without Brady. None of those guys are going to the hall of fame. When is the last time the Patriots had a thousand yard back. If you don't like Brady just say you don't like him. But to say he is not top five all time shows me you know nothing about football are you have been living under a rock the last ten + years.

 

 

Again, all the playoff stats are TEAM acheivements! Second, to say any of those WR's are nothing without Brady is seriously Stupid! So I guess the 111 catches Welker had the season without Brady was because of Brady? I guess the 67 passes he caught in Miami from JOEY HARRINGTON was due to his future success of Brady?

 

As for your question about the last time NE had a 1K yard rusher....that would be last year.

 

And my opinion of not having Brady in my top 5 has nothing to do with if I like him or not. If that's what you're basing your opinion on....then talk about not knowing football.

 

You want to know my top 5...

Montana (because he's better)

Marino (want to talk about doing more with less)

Elway (same as Marino until his last 2 years)

P Manning

Moon (once again, see both Marino and Elway)

 

Gotta go to church now. Be back later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, all the playoff stats are TEAM acheivements! Second, to say any of those WR's are nothing without Brady is seriously Stupid! So I guess the 111 catches Welker had the season without Brady was because of Brady? I guess the 67 passes he caught in Miami from JOEY HARRINGTON was due to his future success of Brady?

 

As for your question about the last time NE had a 1K yard rusher....that would be last year.

 

And my opinion of not having Brady in my top 5 has nothing to do with if I like him or not. If that's what you're basing your opinion on....then talk about not knowing football.

 

You want to know my top 5...

Montana (because he's better)

Marino (want to talk about doing more with less)

Elway (same as Marino until his last 2 years)

P Manning

Moon (once again, see both Marino and Elway)

 

Gotta go to church now. Be back later.

 

Well I agree with 4 out of the 5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely right on that one......11-5 and 2-14!

 

The Patriots went from 16-0 to 11-5

The Colts went a rough 10-6 to 2-14

 

5 game to 8 game is still pretty close. Especially if you note injuries to other key Colts players this season that the Patriots didn't have to deal with when Brady went down.

 

Can't blame Brady that the Pats had a decent back- up who has been a starter in the league since and made the playoffs as a starter on a different team.

 

That 2-14 record had more to do with bad drafting than Manning not playing. Houston was better than Indie with Manning this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, all the playoff stats are TEAM acheivements! Second, to say any of those WR's are nothing without Brady is seriously Stupid! So I guess the 111 catches Welker had the season without Brady was because of Brady? I guess the 67 passes he caught in Miami from JOEY HARRINGTON was due to his future success of Brady?

 

As for your question about the last time NE had a 1K yard rusher....that would be last year.

 

And my opinion of not having Brady in my top 5 has nothing to do with if I like him or not. If that's what you're basing your opinion on....then talk about not knowing football.

 

You want to know my top 5...

Montana (because he's better)

Marino (want to talk about doing more with less)

Elway (same as Marino until his last 2 years)

P Manning

Moon (once again, see both Marino and Elway)

 

Gotta go to church now. Be back later.

 

Also if playoff stats are team stats why do you have Montana #1?

 

he had the best receiver ever for 2 SBs and great defenses during his time in SF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also if playoff stats are team stats why do you have Montana #1?

 

he had the best receiver ever for 2 SBs and great defenses during his time in SF.

 

 

Look at post #4 on page 1. That's where most of my support for Joe Montana is already listed.

 

Well I agree with 4 out of the 5.

 

 

Which one would you change? And who do you replace him with?

 

Even though, I'm sure I already know, lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look at post #4 on page 1. That's where most of my support for Joe Montana is already listed.

 

 

 

 

Which one would you change? And who do you replace him with?

 

Even though, I'm sure I already know, lol.

 

Replace Moon with Brady.

 

I do not neccessarily agree with the order though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Replace Moon with Brady.

 

I do not neccessarily agree with the order though.

 

 

I have no problem with either of those. If anyone wants to put Brady in their top 5, that's their business. I personally wouldn't for each of the reason's I've listed. But if you ask 100 different people who their top 5, 10, etc is and the order, you would probably see at least 80 different lists.

 

If I changed anyone in my top 5, it would be Moon. The other QB's that I would consider would be Steve Young, Staubach, Bradshaw, and Bart Starr. They would all be in my top 10 and I think any of them could be found in someone's top 5 list.

 

So what order is your top 5?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have no problem with either of those. If anyone wants to put Brady in their top 5, that's their business. I personally wouldn't for each of the reason's I've listed. But if you ask 100 different people who their top 5, 10, etc is and the order, you would probably see at least 80 different lists.

 

If I changed anyone in my top 5, it would be Moon. The other QB's that I would consider would be Steve Young, Staubach, Bradshaw, and Bart Starr. They would all be in my top 10 and I think any of them could be found in someone's top 5 list.

 

So what order is your top 5?

 

Ok, this is all a matter of opinion of course of what order these players are in. It really is just how you value certain things and what biases you have. These are all arguable and I understand if you do not agree with my order, but this is my opinion.

 

1) Dan Marino - Many people put Joe Montana in this spot, and they have good arguments. It is hard to argue with 4 rings, but I have to. Marino was never the beneficiary of a top defense or top running game. He did more with less as Lobo97 has already stated. Marino had better stats than Montana and really was a quarterback of today in the wrong era in my opinion. He is constantly credited with the quickest release ever and was nearly impossible to sack even though he was NOT a mobile quarterback. If you replace Montana with Marino the 49ers would most likely have still won those 4 Superbowls maybe even more. However, if you place Montana in Miami instead of Marino I do not believe he would have performed better than Marino did in that position.

 

2) Joe Montana - Most people's number one, 4 rings, and 4-0 in Super Bowls. Always had a good defense and had the best offensive mind ever Bill Walsh as his coach for most of his career.

 

3) John Elway - Much like Marino did a lot with less. He was the benefactor of a great running game later in his career to get his 2 rings.

 

4) Tom Brady - 3 rings and has reached 5 Superbowls. In all honestly until 2007 he did not have a decent weapon on offense so his stats hurt until that period, but since that time the stats have been there. Welker is a good reciever, but Brady really only had a top receiver for one season (Randy Moss, 2007) on the later part of that receiver's career and threw for 50!!! touchdown passes. Win or lose if he had a good game today I will put him at #3.

 

5) Peyton Manning - Probably the greatest pre-snap qb ever. He was surrounded by good weapons early in his career, but has had to carry the load for these past 2-3 years. Really just a matter of opinion at this point.

 

 

Like I said the order is debatable, but these are for sure the top 5 in my opinion in any order.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, this is all a matter of opinion of course of what order these players are in. It really is just how you value certain things and what biases you have. These are all arguable and I understand if you do not agree with my order, but this is my opinion.

 

1) Dan Marino - Many people put Joe Montana in this spot, and they have good arguments. It is hard to argue with 4 rings, but I have to. Marino was never the beneficiary of a top defense or top running game. He did more with less as Lobo97 has already stated. Marino had better stats than Montana and really was a quarterback of today in the wrong era in my opinion. He is constantly credited with the quickest release ever and was nearly impossible to sack even though he was NOT a mobile quarterback. If you replace Montana with Marino the 49ers would most likely have still won those 4 Superbowls maybe even more. However, if you place Montana in Miami instead of Marino I do not believe he would have performed better than Marino did in that position.

 

2) Joe Montana - Most people's number one, 4 rings, and 4-0 in Super Bowls. Always had a good defense and had the best offensive mind ever Bill Walsh as his coach for most of his career.

 

3) John Elway - Much like Marino did a lot with less. He was the benefactor of a great running game later in his career to get his 2 rings.

 

4) Tom Brady - 3 rings and has reached 5 Superbowls. In all honestly until 2007 he did not have a decent weapon on offense so his stats hurt until that period, but since that time the stats have been there. Welker is a good reciever, but Brady really only had a top receiver for one season (Randy Moss, 2007) on the later part of that receiver's career and threw for 50!!! touchdown passes. Win or lose if he had a good game today I will put him at #3.

 

5) Peyton Manning - Probably the greatest pre-snap qb ever. He was surrounded by good weapons early in his career, but has had to carry the load for these past 2-3 years. Really just a matter of opinion at this point.

 

 

Like I said the order is debatable, but these are for sure the top 5 in my opinion in any order.

 

 

 

IF Eli wins will he be your #6? :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, all the playoff stats are TEAM acheivements! Second, to say any of those WR's are nothing without Brady is seriously Stupid! So I guess the 111 catches Welker had the season without Brady was because of Brady? I guess the 67 passes he caught in Miami from JOEY HARRINGTON was due to his future success of Brady?

 

As for your question about the last time NE had a 1K yard rusher....that would be last year.

 

And my opinion of not having Brady in my top 5 has nothing to do with if I like him or not. If that's what you're basing your opinion on....then talk about not knowing football.

 

You want to know my top 5...

Montana (because he's better)

Marino (want to talk about doing more with less)

Elway (same as Marino until his last 2 years)

P Manning

Moon (once again, see both Marino and Elway)

 

Gotta go to church now. Be back later.

 

It's good to know playoff stats are team achievements and regular season stats are individual achievements because that's what you are insulating. Brady set career records for TD 9.0 to int ratio 0.8. Brady has the second best all time passer rating of 117. Tom also threw more TD's(20 Oct. 2007) in a month than any QB ever in history. Mr. greatest of all time also has the record for throwing at least 3 or more TD's in a game than any other QB. That number is 12. These are all regular season stats. He also pass Mario in most pass yards thrown in a season. Something Peyton has yet to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Top 5 Quarterbacks of all time?

 

 

1. Bart Starr - Many believe that the 60's Packers ran the 'Power' and essentially ran over everyone. In actuality the Pack was a passing team, and Starr was the best of them. He led the league in passing five times. He has a career 7.85 YPA. In an era where a passer rating of 80 was 'elite', Starr's postseason passer rating was 104. Many quarterbacks were the beneficiaries of excellent defenses; while the Pack was good, neither the defense nor the running game were better than what Starr was bringing to the table.

 

2. Otto Graham - re-invented football in the 50's, and put together numbers that no one in 30-40 years came close to. With Graham at the helm, the Browns basically showed up in a championship game every year. The Browns organization managed another championship during the Jim Brown years, but they were never as dominant as when Graham was there. Oh - he still hold the best YPA of any quarterback with a 8.63.

 

3. Steve Young - He managed a Super Bowl win when the 49ers basically bought a team and had the good fortune of a Troy Aikman stroke in the 1994 NFC title game. Young was always stymied by injuries, a poor career start, and bad teams. But he was always the best part of his team. He led the league in passing six times. Even when forced to play the best pass defense on the decade (the Cowboys) he never turned in a stinker. Steve Young has one of the best passer ratings of any modern quarterback, and a top 5 YPA all time.

 

4. Joe Montana - Top 5 in passer rating and YPA. Nothing needs to be added.

 

5. Roger Staubach - Led the league in passing 3 times. His 84 passer rating is the best mark of any pre-1980 quarterback. Top 5 in YPA.

 

 

Who doesn't get added?

 

Tom Brady - Brady's career is tainted with cheating scandals and "Tuck Rule" fiascoes. Brady's big moments may be impressive by themselves, but "The Holding Bowl" and "SpyGate" are bigger than anything he's managed since. His YPA also suffers compared to other top passers.

 

Dan Marino - Most of his impressive statistics are bettered by Peyton Manning. Marino has a top-rate YPA - 7.5 - but not a top rate passer rating.

 

Peyton Manning - If I had more time to look at the numbers, he may actually win me over for a top 5 spot.

 

Eli Manning - Oh, that was funny.

 

Brett Favre - Favre had a three year period that may go down as one of the best in history. He also has a list a decade long of horrible postseason gaffes that directly led to his team losing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WOW! I see what all the Brady lovers are talking about now. After that game, I think he just moved to #1 on my list....

 

HAHAHA!!!

 

Brady played good?

 

He moves to 3 on my list now. Receivers have to catch passes that hit them in the hands in the 4th quarter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Mr. P changed the title to ⭐ Greatest quarterback in NFL history?

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...