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Week Nine: Longview at John Tyler


LoboFan07

Longview Lobos (6-1) vs John Tyler Lions (5-2)  

45 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins?

    • Longview in a blow out
      12
    • Longview in a close one
      23
    • John Tyler in a close one
      10
    • John Tyler in a blow out
      0

This poll is closed to new votes


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6 minutes ago, Justafan00 said:

Thanks LoboFan....I think I'll give it a shot. Is there anything special happening that night? Homecoming, Green-Out, Senior Night? Just thinking about crowd...

AND.............

They will be honoring Angela Lawson for her induction into the THSBBHOF. 

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4 hours ago, LoboFan07 said:

Completely different time for East Texas football. Back then, defense was everything for ET teams. Heck, just go back and look at Lufkin's 2001 title season. They never scored more than 38 points. Or even their crazy 2001 to 2005 run. They only scored 50 five times in those five seasons and 3 of them were against horrendous Nacogdoches teams.

Or heck, just look at Longview's history in general. Before King took over, we had 22 games with 50 points scored. We now have 57 games with 50 or more points scored as a program.

Somewhere along the way, we've all just switched. Longview had allowed 1 50 point game between 1952 to 2014. They've now allowed 2 in the last 3 seasons.

Funny enough, the 2004 team never scored 50 either. We missed an extra point at 49 vs North Garland or it would've been 50. I think Evangel the next year was the first time Longview scored 50 under King. 

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1 minute ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Funny enough, the 2004 team never scored 50 either. We missed an extra point at 49 vs North Garland or it would've been 50. I think Evangel the next year was the first time Longview scored 50 under King. 

Yep. That same Evangel game was when they returned to kickoff returns for touchdowns, which I believe is only time that's ever happened against us. But yep, 52-14.

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3 minutes ago, LoboFan07 said:

Yep. That same Evangel game was when they returned to kickoff returns for touchdowns, which I believe is only time that's ever happened against us. But yep, 52-14.

And one of them was done by Joe McKnight who played for John Curtis (and later USC... his younger brother Jonathan played for Curtis when they came to Lobo in 2007) but transferred to Evangel for a few games that year after Katrina. I read the book Hurricane Season about Curtis that year and they talked about McKnight and Evangel playing Longview. The author couldn't believe how big Lobo Stadium was, and he made McKnight's return seem like it was some sort of "he burned everybody" when in reality Jarvis Pippens actually ran him down but missed a tackle at the 10 or so. Haha I guess an author has to dramtize. 

 

Sorry to get off on a tangent. JT vs Longview SHOULD be good and I REALLY wish I could make it up to Rose for the game, but I'm swamped this weekend. So many activities. 

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2 hours ago, ANTI said:

Yall need to stop using this excuse.

Private schools taking or not, they have 2500 kids. Twenty-five. 

The talent just isn't there. And it ain't like the privates that are taking from them are taking high end talent. They are taking a bunch of kids who wouldn't have played anyway.

the population of the school is irrelevant, its the demo of the school that matters. A good portion of Lee population is now Hispanic, and Hispanics don't come out for football.  I don't know why, because there are many good Hispanic players, but for some reason they don't. Lee past demo was made up of students that came out for football. During the Owens era, Lee probably had the largest number of guys in East Texas to come out for football. But that is when Gorman was the only private in town.  Things have change.

Also, I never said the privates were taking "high end talent".  Go read my post again.  I said the privates are taking "DEPTH" from the program.   You think you know the ins and outs about Tyler, when in reality, you know very little.  There are several guys in the private schools in Tyler that could play at JT and Lee.   Just because the teams are not as good doesn't mean they don't have players. Heck, the private schools in Tyler have had several guys to sign college scholarships.  Gorman had a receiver last yr that could have started at most high schools in Texas.

I really could care less if Lee becomes a powerhouse, so I have no reason to "make excuses", but I know Tyler alot better than you do, and I know the privates have had an effect on Lee's program. 

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2 hours ago, ANTI said:

Fine, we'll change the rules to fit your narrative.

The very next JT team was way more talented than any team JT had 2002-2008.

And the next one, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one and next year's team will be.

again, you think you know Tyler football, but you don't. The 2006 JT squad had 6 guys go div.1 and a few others go 1-AA, and the next yr team also had several guys who got scholarships.  As a matter of fact, the 2006 team had more Div.1 guys than the 2013 team. So again, you THINK you know what your talking about, but you don't.  

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10 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

again, you think you know Tyler football, but you don't. The 2006 JT squad had 6 guys go div.1 and a few others go 1-AA, and the next yr team also had several guys who got scholarships.  As a matter of fact, the 2006 team had more Div.1 guys than the 2013 team. So again, you THINK you know what your talking about, but you don't.  

That team only won 4 games that year, right? 

Dang... To have that much talent go to waste... Wasn't Kendall Hunter still around then? I remember our game vs them being a tough one. 

That said, a player going D-1 doesn't necessarily mean they were talented. It meant a college took a risk on them (for any number of reasons) that may or may not have panned out. 

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5 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

despite all of this Katy has figured it out. Maybe every coach needs to watch Katy 2015 videos...lol

And lesson #1 would be, run the 3-4. Not the horrid 4-2-5 that Longview is in. Yes, personnel wise the 4-2-5 makes sense against these spread teams but scheme wise it is the easiest defense to decipher pre snap.

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33 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

again, you think you know Tyler football, but you don't.

Actually, I know more about it than majority of the fans apparently.

The fact that we are debating whether JT had a boat load of talent during that time frame is all I need to know.

Competed against a few of those teams. 2005 was the only one in that time frame that was half way decent and even that team was overrated.

Lee had all the players to lose sleep over during that time that they don't seem to have now.

Bad coaching + low talent for JT during that time. No debate.

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42 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

As a matter of fact, the 2006 team had more Div.1 guys than the 2013 team. So again, you THINK you know what your talking about, but you don't.  

Was the 2006 squad as talented as 2013?

Yes or no?

If you say no, I made my point. If you say yes, seems the person who don't know Tyler football is you.

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6 minutes ago, ANTI said:

Was the 2006 squad as talented as 2013?

Yes or no?

If you say no, I made my point. If you say yes, seems the person who don't know Tyler football is you.

By his metric of talent (receiving a D-1 offer), yes, that team was more talented. 

But that's a pretty shoddy metric to go by. It's hard to actually gauge the talent of a full roster, ya know? 

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54 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

the population of the school is irrelevant, its the demo of the school that matters. 

LMAO

They have a huge white and black population! About 1700 to choose from last year and about the same this year. That's nearly the population of Nac high school.

Come on now......Longview doesn't have that much to choose from. Neither does JT.

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7 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

By his metric of talent (receiving a D-1 offer), yes, that team was more talented. 

But that's a pretty shoddy metric to go by. It's hard to actually gauge the talent of a full roster, ya know? 

He fails at realizing that there are 22 positions, 24 if you want to count P/K.

These days version of JT literally has some sort of talent at every position. That wasn't even close to being true for JT mid 2000's.

 

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Oh my goodness ! Can we just move on to the "here and now " ? Really ?

Time to discuss tomorrow night's matchup...how about it ?

Longview will pass and run with a more balanced look...imo !

Haynes King brings a whole new dimension that JT hasn't seen from Longview than in years past. The Lobos will still try to run in between the Tackles with Williams, Edwards and Hutchins with King testing the JT secondary.

Defensively, the Lobos will attack and may very well allow some yardage but they're in a "bend not break" mode alot these days while forcing opposing offenses into mistakes.

Tell us more about JT guys...enough living in the past...lol !

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45 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

That team only won 4 games that year, right? 

Dang... To have that much talent go to waste... Wasn't Kendall Hunter still around then? I remember our game vs them being a tough one. 

That said, a player going D-1 doesn't necessarily mean they were talented. It meant a college took a risk on them (for any number of reasons) that may or may not have panned out. 

They were bad because the other 18 positions were awful. Point made.

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4 minutes ago, RandyJohnson said:

Oh my goodness ! Can we just move on to the "here and now " ? Really ?

Time to discuss tomorrow night's matchup...how about it ?

Longview will pass and run with a more balanced look...imo !

Haynes King brings a whole new dimension that JT hasn't seen from Longview than in years past. The Lobos will still try to run in between the Tackles with Williams, Edwards and Hutchins with King testing the JT secondary.

Defensively, the Lobos will attack and may very well allow some yardage but they're in a "bend not break" mode alot these days while forcing opposing offenses into mistakes.

Tell us more about JT guys...enough living in the past...lol !

Yep... Against Rockwall the turnovers were the difference in the game. Longview allowed some long drives and a lot of yards.... But got the ball back when it mattered, allowing fewer points. 

 

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9 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Yep... Against Rockwall the turnovers were the difference in the game. Longview allowed some long drives and a lot of yards.... But got the ball back when it mattered, allowing fewer points. 

 

True enough. The FIVE turnovers (Carr's 3 INT's included) were key to that win. 

Much like Longview's first half implosion against Horn where they became unhinged with five huge miscues and six total in the game caused their undoing.

There's little doubt the team that plays closest to mistake free will take this one.

If King settles in and finds his targets open then that should bode well for the Lobos.

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2 minutes ago, RandyJohnson said:

True enough. The FIVE turnovers (Carr's 3 INT's included) were key to that win. 

Much like Longview's first half implosion against Horn where they became unhinged with five huge miscues and six total in the game caused their undoing.

Eh. I don't view the two alike, outside of the number themselves.

Longview gave that game to Horn. The Lobos fumble two or three times without even being touched. Unlike the Rockwall game, where the Lobo D made those turnovers happen.

But either way, Lobos need to continue to force those turnovers and hopefully continue last week's non-fumblitis type of game.

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5 minutes ago, RandyJohnson said:

True enough. The FIVE turnovers (Carr's 3 INT's included) were key to that win. 

Much like Longview's first half implosion against Horn where they became unhinged with five huge miscues and six total in the game caused their undoing.

There's little doubt the team that plays closest to mistake free will take this one.

If King settles in and finds his targets open then that should bode well for the Lobos.

See, I think the opposite. I think our running game could be the key here. If we can block well, our RBs can eat up yardage in chunks, as can Carter. 

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The fact of the matter is each game came down to key turnovers that caused an avalanche loss in one instance and a thrilling closeout win in the other.

Yes...the Longview ground game will be important but if last week was any indication, Coach King used Haynes' passing ability to setup the run and it was the aerial assault in the first half that launched the Lobos to the 24-0 halftime lead.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyFootball said:

That team only won 4 games that year, right? 

Dang... To have that much talent go to waste... Wasn't Kendall Hunter still around then? I remember our game vs them being a tough one. 

That said, a player going D-1 doesn't necessarily mean they were talented. It meant a college took a risk on them (for any number of reasons) that may or may not have panned out. 

actually a typo on my part, I meant the class of 2006, which would have been the 2005 squad.  The 2006 squad only won 4 games, but it had a very tough preseason schedule and they lost alot from the talented 2005 squad (which won 8  or 9 games).  They had Desoto, Ryan Mallet Texas High team, Dallas Carter, and Plano east on schedule. They did manage to go 4-7 and make playoffs. But that team had Kendall Hunter, Marquise Franklin go Div.1. Plus other guys that went 1-aa like Darell Allen, Rod Warren, William Grandberry, and at least 5 other guys that signed either JUCO or Div.2. 

and you right, just because a guy went Div.1 means nothing...except for the fact that those guys I named, all started at their Div.1 school. So obviously they were talented.  My point was that ANTI thinks that JT struggle because of lack of talent in the 2000s. My argument is that it had nothing to do with talent because through out the bad yrs, JT was putting out just as much, if not more college athletes than they do now.  It was coaching, not talent.

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