Mavchamp Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 That’s incorrect. The splitting of a class produces the SAME number of champions as it did before the split. All that has changed is hat teams will be divided out before the playoffs instead of after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAV1975 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Thanks for clearing that up, because I was unclear. I am not being sarcastic when I ask this, but why was there a need to create a Div. II, if it doesn't create another state champion? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavchamp Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 TBH.... If you don’t even know how realignment and classification works...... that tells me all I need to know about your input concerning the current state of Marshall football, 5A football, much less TXHSFB on the whole. You probably think Portland picking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan was a good idea too. 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboFan07 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 hour ago, MAV1975 said: Based upon what I know, I will continue to believe that with the right leadership, Marshall is able to compete with anybody (5A Div. II or 6A). Thank you very much! Marshall might have a season here and there that they could compete with the top dogs in 5A D1/maybe 6A D2...but it's been a long time since that has happened, and I highly doubt it'll be happening anytime soon. Things have changed a ridiculous amount since 1990, and they're going to continue to change. Marshall being in 5A D2 right now is a good place for them, and hopefully it helps them compete on the state level again. But to go around and start saying y'all can compete with anyone in 6A, when you have just 3 playoff wins since 2010...come on. I'm sure you'll bring up the 2015 win over Longview to try and prove a point, but no. Longview would've struggle in 6A that season if they were up there, and the 3 games around that 2015 game (14/16/17) where the Lobos have outscored the Mavs 153 to 27 point directly to the opposite. Marshall is the top dog of a bad 5A East Texas district right now, and nothing but. I think Mathis could change that if he stays, but it's not like he didn't make some bone head decisions this past season either. 14 minutes ago, MAV1975 said: I beg to differ, so, I agree to disagree. There was a time when 5A was the states largest Classification, and you had one team from each district, with one eventual state champion. 5A was broken down to (2)two champions. Then, out of the same pool of schools the 6A was created with (2) two more state champions. That made a total of (4) four champions coming out of a pool that was once produced (I) one champion. I may be wrong, if I am correct me. Now, you have 5A Div. II which creates (2) more state champions. That makes a total of (6) six state champions (5A & 6A) coming out of pool that once produced (1) champion. With the right coach, Marshall will do well regardless to what District, Division, or Classification they are in. You're incorrect. 5A Division II will produce 1 state champion. It is just a separate division from 5A Division I now. The amount of State Titles is not changing until we had a 7A, which is inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgman Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Mavchamp said: Mathis said he did. He also said he wasn’t planning on leaving Marshall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavchamp Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 25 minutes ago, MAV1975 said: Thanks for clearing that up, because I was unclear. I am not being sarcastic when I ask this, but why was there a need to create a Div. II, if it doesn't create another state champion? Prior to the split.... all 5A schools played together in one classification in district play, but would then be split at the end of the season based on enrollment. The 2 largest went Div I, the two smallest went Div II. With the split coming BEFORE... it's the same number of teams.... they are just being divided prior to district play. 5A Div II: 1,150-1,830 5A Div I: 1,831 to 2,189 In the old system alignment may have looked like this 5A: Lufkin, John Tyler, Nac, Jacksonville, Lindale, Whitehouse 5A: Marshall, Texas High, MP, SS, Hallsville, Pine Tree, Greenville Meaning...a very small 5A Sulphur Springs could face a very big 5A Lufkin in the playoffs. But with the new alignment..... the bigger schools are grouped together....with the smaller schools grouped together. 5A Div I: Texas High, John Tyler, Lufkin (but they went south), joined with some DFW schools 5A DIv II: Marshall, Hallsville, MP, WH, Pine Tree, Lindale, Nac Now little Lindale can't play Lufkin for district...OR the playoffs. Little Greenville can't play John Tyler in district OR the playoffs. Same number of teams...just arranged in a way where they are grouped with like enrollments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketpop Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 If Mathis leaves it’ll be for a top job in the state. Marshall hired him because he was at a top job in the state, and also at the collegiate level. He would not be going back to an average program or a lateral move. Marshall can be upset that he is leaving and the situation, but they can’t be mad at a coach who leaves for an opportunity that is on a different level. I think if this same scenario was happening, but it was for a Wylie East job, Red Oak, or any other job that has been filled this off season than it would be different. But it is to go back to the program that he built and made a national power. If if he stays I don’t think Marshall will give him too hard a time. It seems that he has that off season program rolling. The numbers are up, and the players love the current staff. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavchamp Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 IMHO.... We are fine no matter if he stays or he goes based on ONE thing: what does the school board do? If they manage to keep the current staff intact.... I think they continue their upwards growth. But if they try to start from scratch again.... it becomes a toss up. 2018 has a lot of talent returning. They should be a favorite for the district title and a nice run in the playoffs. But if we spend 2018 learning yet another system. Yet another coaching staff.... it all becomes a crapshoot. Jmho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAV1975 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Thanks for clearing that up (you didn't have to, you chose to). I don't know everything, nor, do I claim to (I am pretty knowledgeable when it comes to Marshall Maverick Football). If you don't know something, you ask. I didn't know, so I asked. Now with you being a Moderator feel the need to be sarcastic, just don't reply. Again, I will agree to disagree with you as it relates to Marshall ability to consistently compete with the larger school (year in and year out). I don't believe that anything I say is going to change your opinion, and I know that you are not going to change mine. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Rab Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 hour ago, MAV1975 said: I beg to differ, so, I agree to disagree. There was a time when 5A was the states largest Classification, and you had one team from each district, with one eventual state champion. 5A was broken down to (2)two champions. Then, out of the same pool of schools the 6A was created with (2) two more state champions. That made a total of (4) four champions coming out of a pool that was once produced (I) one champion. I may be wrong, if I am correct me. Now, you have 5A Div. II which creates (2) more state champions. That makes a total of (6) six state champions (5A & 6A) coming out of pool that once produced (1) champion. With the right coach, Marshall will do well regardless to what District, Division, or Classification they are in. You keep talking like Marshall should be able to Hang with Aledo yearly... I just don’t see it. Aledo is a desirable Metroplex school district with solid numbers, countless D1 move-ins and top notch HS facilities, and you are telling me that Marshall has enough home grown talent to compete with that? I grew up in Marshall. 96-98 we possibly had some of the best collection of talent that the town had ever seen... Yet, we couldn’t make it past the 3rd round. Fast forward 10 years when I worked there... we had a GReAT Marshall team in 2009? Maybe 2010... either way we had 16 kids or so sign college LOIs... the most in school history... and we couldn’t get past Denison... now fast forward another 7 years... we had 4 D1 OL... and how far did they go? Sorry, we just aren’t on par with home grown talent as some of those schools are with move-ins... and we will probably never will be... this D2 split was a blessing for Marshall football... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Rab Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, MAV1975 said: Thanks for clearing that up (you didn't have to, you chose to). I don't know everything, nor, do I claim to (I am pretty knowledgeable when it comes to Marshall Maverick Football). If you don't know something, you ask. I didn't know, so I asked. Now with you being a Moderator feel the need to be sarcastic, just don't reply. Again, I will agree to disagree with you as it relates to Marshall ability to consistently compete with the larger school (year in and year out). I don't believe that anything I say is going to change your opinion, and I know that you are not going to change mine. Thanks! If you can’t handle sarcasm, SDC or any forum, is not the place for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAV1975 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I grew up in Marshall in the 60's and 70's, although you may feel that I am a bit removed from reality, I have followed and supported this program every sense. That doesn't change the fact that I truly believe that Marshall can compete with the Aledo's of this world year in and year out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavchamp Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, MAV1975 said: I grew up in Marshall in the 60's and 70's, although you may feel that I am a bit removed from reality, I have followed and supported this program every sense. That doesn't change the fact that I truly believe that Marshall can compete with the Aledo's of this world year in and year out. Have you not noticed the trend for the last 20 years or so in 5A and 6A that has seen the rise of the wealthy newer suburban areas? There are REASONS why these schools have flourished in the playoffs. The Frisco schools, Mansfield, schools, Kleins, Cypress, etc, etc, etc..... list goes on and on. Have you noticed who Marshall, Longview, Texas High, John Tyler, etc etc have lost to in the playoffs for the most part in the last 20 years? Have you noticed that schools like Permian, Plano, Midland Lee, Aldine (all Powers in the 90's you speak of) are all irrelevant now? I do think the split helps us. Most of the playoff games we've lost in the last 10 years have been to schools that would have been in Div I. We shall see. Meanwhile....back to DeSoto/Marshall/Mathis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomuser Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Didn’t Marshall get 70 hung on them by HP in a SC game? BTW, what is Marshall’s enrollment? Aledo is small, enrollment of 1740. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgman Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, randomuser said: Didn’t Marshall get 70 hung on them by HP in a SC game? BTW, what is Marshall’s enrollment? Aledo is small, enrollment of 1740. Think it was 59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakRidgeMav Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 hours ago, MAV1975 said: I stand corrected, Converse Judson was one of the largest schools in the state of Texas. Now, if my memory serves me correctly, It was Marshall that beat Plano (the largest school in the state) 24-19 in the quarterfinals. In route to the state championship. I understand that it is 2018, but it has been that defeatist mentality, and inferiority complex that hindered this program in recent years. Based upon what I know, I will continue to believe that with the right leadership, Marshall is able to compete with anybody (5A Div. II or 6A). Thank you very much! It's one thing being a homer (of which I'm also guilty), but to think the Mavs can compete consistently with the top echelon of 5A D1 schools (i.e. suburban schools) with an enrollment of close to 500 more students, not to mention top echelon 6a schools with a pool of 1,000+ students, is definitely looking thru red and white glasses. No doubt, with a pretty stout talent base for a 5A D2 school (particularly in the speed department), on a good day (at least on the current trajectory) they can play with SOME of the top 5A D1 teams, and even sneak up on a lower, top 6A program. But, IMO, just the physical size difference of the larger schools would wear down the Mavs in most cases.. The '80's and '90's were great years for Maverick football, and the mid 2000's not too shabby either (i.e. lost a state championship they should have won), but, as some have mentioned, times have changed with the suburban move-ins, etc. No doubt splitting 5A is a good thing for Marshall.....at least it puts us on relatively equal footing with the teams which we're competing with for that particular brass ring. And IMHO there's nothing wrong with being considered among the best of schools of your size, while occasionally bloodying the nose of one of the bigger bullies (Longview, etc.). I do believe the Mavs are returning to being consistent contenders for that brass ring, BUT, just not as David in a world of Goliaths. Just call me a realistic homer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomuser Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Get one of the Bennett boys if Claude leaves. My choice would be Jabo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxsportseasttexas Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 hours ago, WingTright said: If Mathis leaves it’ll be for a top job in the state. Marshall hired him because he was at a top job in the state, and also at the collegiate level. He would not be going back to an average program or a lateral move. Marshall can be upset that he is leaving and the situation, but they can’t be mad at a coach who leaves for an opportunity that is on a different level. I think if this same scenario was happening, but it was for a Wylie East job, Red Oak, or any other job that has been filled this off season than it would be different. But it is to go back to the program that he built and made a national power. If if he stays I don’t think Marshall will give him too hard a time. It seems that he has that off season program rolling. The numbers are up, and the players love the current staff. Time will tell. How is Desoto a top job in the state with only 9 applicants?? Mathis is completely out of line if he leaves Marshall after 1 year. He gave a commitment to the kids, community , administration and more importantly a staff that has uprooted their families and moved to Marshall because he PROMISED to them that he was there to build a power-house. So shame on him for even applying for the Desoto job. I don't get how he wants to go from a place with 110% support from the community and administration to a place where people have verbally said they don't want him and the school board is a mess..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboFan07 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, foxsportseasttexas said: I don't get how he wants to go from a place with 110% support from the community and administration to a place where people have verbally said they don't want him and the school board is a mess..... Because it's home for him. It's his place he built. Marshall will never be home for him imo, no matter how much support he gets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomuser Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, foxsportseasttexas said: How is Desoto a top job in the state with only 9 applicants?? Mathis is completely out of line if he leaves Marshall after 1 year. He gave a commitment to the kids, community , administration and more importantly a staff that has uprooted their families and moved to Marshall because he PROMISED to them that he was there to build a power-house. So shame on him for even applying for the Desoto job. I don't get how he wants to go from a place with 110% support from the community and administration to a place where people have verbally said they don't want him and the school board is a mess..... Hard to disagree with any statement you made. Desoto is messed up as bad as a soup sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomuser Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just now, LoboFan07 said: Because it's home for him. It's his place he built. Marshall will never be home for him imo, no matter how much support he gets. Dave Meadows, the HC before Mathis did about the same as Mathis. People forget that. Peterman is the only coach to get them to the promised land. The athletes have been there for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxsportseasttexas Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Well he should've just said "I'll build a power-house in Marshall unless the Desoto job comes open" ... the turmoil in Desoto from last spring up until now is starting to add up if you know what I mean.... not good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxsportseasttexas Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 It's no coincidence that the Desoto school board didn't have any issues with Peterman until after Mathis got back into the HS ranks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTFAN99 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 7 hours ago, MAV1975 said: Like I said previously, "They say that ignorance is bliss"! Contrary to what you may believe, I am not living in the past. I didn't mention the teams of the 80's and 90's because of demographics, but because of numbers. We all know that demographics will always change, but numbers never lie. Regardless to what you say or think, It does not change the fact, that in 1990, Marshall (one of the smallest high schools in the state) Beat Converse Judson ( the largest high school in the state of Texas at the time) for the big 5a state championship. That was because of our rich talent base. Based on enrollment numbers, Marshall was not even supposed to be on the same field with Judson. I know that you may think that it is ridiculous, and some blasphemous at the idea that Marshall would have talent on par with the big programs in the larger Metropolitan areas. Time will eventually bare that out. I don't blame Mathis if he wants to go to the place that he considers to be home, I wish him well. If he don't want to be here, I want him to move on, so that we can move forward. You can say what you want about the man, but I do consider him to be a great evaluator of talent. When he stated that he came to Marshall not to win district championship, but to win state championships, and to build a nationally ranked program. You don't make that statement, nor, are you able to do that without having elite talent. I will support the coach, who ever he may be, but my unwavering commitment will always be to Marshall Maverick Football. We know what we have, and time will tell! Demographics have changed a ton since the late 80s and early 90s. Back then, the majority of the talent was in the inner city and not the suburbs. The burbs were larger schools and had better coaching, but not as much talent. So east tx schools could beat those larger schools then, because East TX had the talent, discipline, and coaching. Now most of the talent has moved out into the suburbs, so the burbs got the coaching, the talent, the discipline, and now more numbers because the schools are much larger now than they were then. Meanwhile, the East Texas schools have either shrunk, or not grown at the same rate. Marshall has 400 less students then they had in the late 80s. You ain't competing with the burbs like you did in 80s and 90s. And Marshall had a top notch coach then too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Rab Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 8 hours ago, randomuser said: Didn’t Marshall get 70 hung on them by HP in a SC game? BTW, what is Marshall’s enrollment? Aledo is small, enrollment of 1740. Aledo has been fringe D1/D2 for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts