Marshall Promotes OC Jake Griedl to AD/Head Football Coach...

[Mavchamp]

9 minutes ago, playactionpass39 said:

I don't think anybody is throwing down ultimatums, it is just hard to stay at a place when you don't feel like you are wanted. When as a Coordinator you interview for the Head Coach job and don't get it,  you tend to feel like you are inadequate in the eyes of leadership. It is difficult to swallow your pride as a professional when you have been passed over. And, the other Coordinator who got the job usually sees you as a competitor and a threat to his power, which makes for an uncomfortable working environment. 

In the business world.... and in healthcare (my field).... people look at years of experience.

I'm sure that’s part of the equation here too. 

That’s one of the things that hurts a young coach. 

I seem to recall an OC at Marshall that advanced to the team to the region semis in 2009.  He became HC in 2011 and we cratered to a (3-17) as he experimented being the top dog.   He was an outstanding OC  but cratered as HC  

So I understand the trepidation.  We are only 6-7 years removed from that. 

[playactionpass39]

Just now, Mavchamp said:

From what I know.... both of them are outstanding coordinators with equally outstanding personalities and qualities you want in a coach. 

I have only  heard positive things about both.  Either would be fantastic choices.  Can’t go wrong. 

But I think they are looking for someone for the long haul so we aren’t doing this again in 4-5 seasons. 

Both are from major metropolitan areas.

The DC did not move his family to Marshall when he came two years ago.

The OC is young, and perceived to be ambitious.

I really don't think you can honestly believe that either will stay past 4 or 5 years.

All that interview will say they will stay and Lord willing whoever gets the job makes it their "Dream Destination" job and stays for the long haul.

[rocketpop]

3 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

If it’s the OC’s prerogative to leave if he doesn’t get it.... then so be it. 

One person was not the sole reason we’ve been successful. 

This is a group effort. 

And a silent or inferred ultimatum will rub most people the wrong way. 

Abd none of us know for sure what he’s thinking.  He deserves a fair shake.  

And here is something to consider:  young guy from Austin with ties to a successful 6A program.   Sounds like we could be doing this AGAIN in a few years.

 Seems to be a trend you see across the state. Metropolitan  guys want to be in metro areas. 

Guys from smaller towns may prefer smaller towns.  

Should be interesting. 

I don't think it is an ultimatum, nor do i think the success the Mavs have had fell solely on the OC, not even close! What I do think though is you (maybe, based off the post) are delusional to think either coordinator stays if they don't get it. I think there is a chance they both may, because im sure they both recognize the talent coming back, but USUALLY that isn't how this works...usually.

Youve brought up the OCs "BIG" city background..yet he is the only coach who moved his family out here......

I wonder if you could look back in time what people would say about the Lincoln Riley hire, the Scotty Walden hire at ETBU (east texas example), Sean McVay with the Rams, and many more of how many people would say "he is too young, he is a young guy, he isn't old enough" etc. etc. 

Ties to other programs doesn't mean return to that program, it means thats how they grew to be successful. The DC has ties to a very successful 4a program in San Antonio area. The current HC there is like 80... the DCs family still lives there, why do you not consider him a "flight risk"? 

 

At the end of the day i like the looks of the OC over the DC, but thats my opinion. BOTH ARE GREAT! I just see football programs in general are hiring the up and comers over the "experienced".  What I can promise you is that regardless of who is hired i will back them 100% and i want that statement to be heard clearly. What I honestly DON'T think would be good is an OUTSIDE HIRE. I think thatd hurt more than it helps. 

[playactionpass39]

1 minute ago, Mavchamp said:

In the business world.... and in healthcare (my field).... people look at years of experience.

I'm sure that’s part of the equation here too. 

That’s one of the things that hurts a young coach. 

I seem to recall an OC at Marshall that advanced to the team to the region semis in 2009.  He became HC in 2011 and we cratered to a (3-17) as he experimented beng the top dog.   He was an outstanding OC  but cratered as HC  

So I understand the trepidation.  We are only 6-7 years removed from that. 

I understand that, but I think that is where "Leadership Skills" comes into play.

Does the young OC have the plan in place to be the Head Coach. Does he have a clear cut vision of how he is going to accomplish his plan.

Experience is a bad measuring stick, IMO. 

Vision, plan, personality, leadership skills, organizational skills, attention to detail, all of those trump experience.

[rocketpop]

5 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

In the business world.... and in healthcare (my field).... people look at years of experience.

I'm sure that’s part of the equation here too. 

That’s one of the things that hurts a young coach. 

I seem to recall an OC at Marshall that advanced to the team to the region semis in 2009.  He became HC in 2011 and we cratered to a (3-17) as he experimented being the top dog.   He was an outstanding OC  but cratered as HC  

So I understand the trepidation.  We are only 6-7 years removed from that. 

Not about years of experience as much as it is what youve achieved in your years of experience. 

[playactionpass39]

5 minutes ago, rocketpop said:

I don't think it is an ultimatum, nor do i think the success the Mavs have had fell solely on the OC, not even close! What I do think though is you (maybe, based off the post) are delusional to think either coordinator stays if they don't get it. I think there is a chance they both may, because im sure they both recognize the talent coming back, but USUALLY that isn't how this works...usually.

Youve brought up the OCs "BIG" city background..yet he is the only coach who moved his family out here......

I wonder if you could look back in time what people would say about the Lincoln Riley hire, the Scotty Walden hire at ETBU (east texas example), Sean McVay with the Rams, and many more of how many people would say "he is too young, he is a young guy, he isn't old enough" etc. etc. 

Ties to other programs doesn't mean return to that program, it means thats how they grew to be successful. The DC has ties to a very successful 4a program in San Antonio area. The current HC there is like 80... the DCs family still lives there, why do you not consider him a "flight risk"? 

 

At the end of the day i like the looks of the OC over the DC, but thats my opinion. BOTH ARE GREAT! I just see football programs in general are hiring the up and comers over the "experienced".  What I can promise you is that regardless of who is hired i will back them 100% and i want that statement to be heard clearly. What I honestly DON'T think would be good is an OUTSIDE HIRE. I think thatd hurt more than it helps. 

Dead Solid Perfect!!

[BruceLeeroy]

If you don't go with the OC or DC, bring a former Lion back to East Texas. 

[ontheinside]

1 hour ago, Mavchamp said:

In the business world.... and in healthcare (my field).... people look at years of experience.

I'm sure that’s part of the equation here too. 

That’s one of the things that hurts a young coach. 

I seem to recall an OC at Marshall that advanced to the team to the region semis in 2009.  He became HC in 2011 and we cratered to a (3-17) as he experimented being the top dog.   He was an outstanding OC  but cratered as HC  

So I understand the trepidation.  We are only 6-7 years removed from that. 

Richters was never even the OC.  He was the Special Teams coordinator under Harris.  Parham was the OC.  Richters was put into a bad spot, he had never even been a coordinator (other than special teams) and was all of a sudden the top dog.  Obviously he wasn't ready.

[Mavchamp]

Personally........ I think an inside hire is an outstanding choice. No matter which one gets it, it will be a positive thing  and I’ll support it. 

And if an outside hire is made.... barring an unexpected catastrophic breakdown...  it could be an outstanding choice too.  And I’ll support it.

I trust due diligence will be done

[Mavchamp]

6 minutes ago, ontheinside said:

Richters was never even the OC.  He was the Special Teams coordinator under Harris.  Parham was the OC.  Richters was put into a bad spot, he had never even been a coordinator (other than special teams) and was all of a sudden the top dog.  Obviously he wasn't ready.

Thanks for the correction!   

I agree. Richters was done a disservice. As was the program.

Had a 100 year low in those two seasons too. 

[Mavchamp]

For what it’s worth.... the current DC was the OL coach at ETBU when they had the #1 offense in NCAA Div III under Scotty Walden. 

So he’s no stranger to coaching offense.  And ETBU has always been a wide open offense.  Usually in the top 10 of D3. 

 

[rocketpop]

58 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

For what it’s worth.... the current DC was the OL coach at ETBU when they had the #1 offense in NCAA Div III under Scotty Walden. 

So he’s no stranger to coaching offense.  And ETBU has always been a wide open offense.  Usually in the top 10 of D3. 

 

Sul Ross... not ETBU. He worked for Walden when Walden was named the OC as a 23 year old at Sul Ross. (2012). They went 5-5. DC has never been at ETBU. 

[kingwolf]

When will we know?

[Coach Rab]

4 hours ago, rocketpop said:

If the OC doesnt get the job he will leave. Thats how this works. Id imagine Mathis would want him at Desoto, and there is alot of talent there for him to not go "5-5". You are assuming he would only get an "average" job if he wasn't in Marshall.

 

What looks better? A DC who leaves to be a DC somewhere else and goes like 5-5 and misses the playoffs or is stuck in DC status for 5 more years or....

DC who gets passed up, passes on other DC jobs to see what he can do with his talent, and goes 3-4 rounds deep?

DC with commitment is the one I choose for the next HC when i go looking... and playoff wins sure as hell won’t hurt the resume.

 

Smoaky said the internal search would go through today. I wonder who else is interviewing other than the DC/OC. 

If he is leaving for a better OC gig then so be it.  Last time I checked, Desoto wasn't looking that much better than Marshall.  Long term, the flow of talent may be slightly better in Desoto...  However, I don't see moving to DeSoto to be a move to make to be considered for a HC job next year.  I would think that if you stay put where you have certainty of a playoff shot (assuming nothing happens to JJ), and likely another 8-2. 7-3 district title with a legit shot of winning a few playoff games you would be considered for HC positions again.

I am not saying that DeSoto would be a worse job.  Let me repeat before some moron turns this into something that it is not... I am not saying DeSoto is a worse job.  I just think that staying in Marshall (short term) may be the better move professionally if he doesn't get the job when looking for HC jobs.

This also applies to the DC.  If you are going to have a dominant defense next year, then why not stay for another year if not offered a HC job somewhere else?  Same for position coaches, why not stay another year if you aren't offered an OC or DC position somewhere else?  

Marshall pay is very competitive, you are going to win (or should), you have a fantastic budget, good facilities, great fan support.... why not stay if you aren't advancing your career???

[Mr. P]

1 hour ago, MavGrad99 said:

I would think that if you stay put where you have certainty of a playoff shot...

Yeah, I'm not sure I follow either.

I can see some big name college OC or DC bolting if they get passed over for the HC coach job. But on the high school level, unless you've got an inbox full of firm offers, better to hang tight until a better deal comes along. I don't see the sense in leaving for the sake of leaving, just because you didn't get the top job. 

[Mavchamp]

2 minutes ago, AKA said:

Yeah, I'm not sure I follow either.

I can see some big name college OC or DC bolting if they get passed over for the HC coach job. But on the high school level, unless you've got an inbox full of firm offers, better to hang tight until a better deal comes along. I don't see the sense in leaving for the sake of leaving, just because you didn't get the top job. 

Couldn’t have said it better. 

If either coordinator gets it... both should be thrilled to stay.  Could make 2019 special. 

And if an outsider gets it.... and he’s willing to keep one or both of the coordinators.... why leave?   This is the possibility of a great season gift wrapped for you. 

If a better job or situation comes along....  of course it makes sense to leave. 

But leaving just because you’re mad.  Or because you didn’t get your way.....  harder to understand. 

Glad this is moving quickly.   Kids should be excited at the possibilities 

[MattStepp]

It just doesn't work like that in MOST cases....its an understood rule in education that if two or more assistants on the same staff go after the HFC job, the folks who don't get it got to go..its professional courtesy and makes for a less hostile environment for everyone involved..I would say its well over 90% of the time this happens when multiple folks on the same staff go after a job...that's why its always best for the staff to get behind one guy....it also shows to admin there is loyalty and continuity on the staff....

[Mavchamp]

I DO get that. To a point  

But to leave when you could possibly win 10+ games and have something special.... Vs leaving and possibly accepting something that’s seen as a lateral move and possibly having a mediocre to poor season is kind of hard to wrap the brain around. 

As hard as it may be to remain on staff with someone you lost a job to..... it may be harder to see that program go on and win without you.... esp if you’re struggling at the new gig you took to get away. 

[supermaroon]

4 minutes ago, MattStepp said:

It just doesn't work like that in MOST cases....its an understood rule in education that if two or more assistants on the same staff go after the HFC job, the folks who don't get it got to go..its professional courtesy and makes for a less hostile environment for everyone involved..I would say its well over 90% of the time this happens when multiple folks on the same staff go after a job...that's why its always best for the staff to get behind one guy....it also shows to admin there is loyalty and continuity on the staff....

What about hiring from the outside and a couple guys on staff went after it. Doesn't that usually hurt their chances of staying for the same reasons? I know most will want to bring in their own coordinators just interested in the mindset of new coaches coming in.

[MattStepp]

2 minutes ago, supermaroon said:

What about hiring from the outside and a couple guys on staff went after it. Doesn't that usually hurt their chances of staying for the same reasons? I know most will want to bring in their own coordinators just interested in the mindset of new coaches coming in.

It does in most cases work like that....if you want any chance of staying and they hire an outside guy then you don't apply....occasionally guys will stay but that's only if the HC already knows the guy and to be honest doesn't see him as someone who could be disloyal down the line...

[supermaroon]

Just now, MattStepp said:

It does in most cases work like that....if you want any chance of staying and they hire an outside guy then you don't apply....occasionally guys will stay but that's only if the HC already knows the guy and to be honest doesn't see him as someone who could be disloyal down the line...

Yeah that's what I was thinking

[MattStepp]

6 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

I DO get that. To a point  

But to leave when you could possibly win 10+ games and have something special.... Vs leaving and possibly accepting something that’s seen as a lateral move and possibly having a mediocre to poor season is kind of hard to wrap the brain around. 

As hard as it may be to remain on staff with someone you lost a job to..... it may be harder to see that program go on and win without you.... esp if you’re struggling at the new gig you took to get away. 

A lot of times the guy who leaves may not have a choice...he may be asked to leave by the new HC....or face taking a major demotion if he's already got a contract in place...

[MattStepp]

Bottom line is when a guy gets a head coaching job he needs to be given the flexibility to bring his own staff in....if he's gonna have his feet held to the fire for wins and losses might as well go down with your guys....if admin starts to demand he keep certain guys etc....then the whole thing is probably doomed from the jump

[slingit22]

Stepp is exactly right.  Truth is, with both Coordinators throwing their names in, there is probably an internal division of the staff based off of who they hope to get the job.  I'm sure they are being a civil as possible, but that stuff usually comes to light one way or another.  If one of them gets it, they don't forget who was in their corner. One guy rowing in the wrong direction can have a huge effect on a program, not worth the risk of keeping someone you aren't sure about.

[mav01]

I think most us mav fans are in agreement. We would hate to lose either coordinator. Likewise, be happy if either gets the HC job. Just sad Mathis leaving has to negatively effect what both or either coordinator worked so hard to build. Both sides of ball are and should be special units next season based on last year and amount of returning starters/jv. 

I understand the reasoning for the staff that didnt get job to leave, but if it were me, I would hate to throw next seasons potential resume booster away because of pride. If a seasoned current HC gets hired, how much would he change up and would it be worth it to sacrifice a possible longer playoff run next season. I think the future is bright in mav land regardless if it's a current staff member or a former championship HC.