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Tyler ISD To Consider Renaming Lee and John Tyler


Stoney

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All of the “after the fact” confederate statues are just giant participation trophies. It’s like when a college football team claims a National title from 80 years ago. 
 

Was Lee a terrible guy? Probably not. He chose the wrong side though and he lost. Winners write history. If you don’t like it then win.

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10 minutes ago, NATUREBOY98 said:

Yeah I’ve heard of Tyler trying to get Lee to change it’s name, but this is the first time that John Tyler has been brought up. At least to my ears. No my head isn’t in the sand. A black man led this nation from ‘08-‘16. Was in office during a time when multiple police killings erupted in riots. Not a damn peep about statues or name changed. Should they come down? Hell I don’t know. I’m just saying where was the outrage during his tenure. Were text books changed since the ‘90’s cause we learned about slavery. Immigrant or no other watering down was in those books. I did ask my teacher one thing that I couldn’t wrap my head around. I asked her how was it possible that 25-30 guys (that’s how many it took to man a ship) were able to drop anchor, head into uncharted territory, capture 360 people (that was the amount taught that were crammed into the ship), secure those people, march them back to shore, get them loaded, and not lose one of their own. Didn’t make much sense to me. She told me they were not allowed to teach that part of it. So you’re right. They need to teach all the horrors of the slave days. On this continent and the other one too. Don’t forget to mention the Spanish. They were the ones to do it first. Latin America has got a lot of name changing and statue removing to do as well. Maybe if the truth was told people wouldn’t wear necklaces depicting Africa. I get not wanting to stand for the anthem like Kap, but damn be consistent. Don’t wear a necklace with the continent that sold their own into slavery. Guess he wasn’t taught the entire ugly truth of slavery. 

You're kinda all over the place, so I'll try to answer what I can. Isn't this America? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" We aren't South America, so lets try to be better and live up to what our Declaration of Independence states.

You keep bringing up Obama, but racism was here before Obama and will be here after Trump, but that doesn't mean that we don't try to address it. Take if from Tim Scott a black Republican that has talked about racial profiling that he's experienced on Capitol Hill. Obama gave a speech about race relations in this country, and there was plenty of protests about police violence and race relations during his tenure, so I don't get where you say there was any outrage during his time in office. I'll be sure to link some if you want to go back and forth.

Also, what does not wearing a necklace with Africa on it has to do with anything? Africa is a continent and not a country. Like I mentioned before lets talk about all the ills of slavery, segregation and Jim Crow laws. This country has never even formally apologized for slavery, and people glorify those that fought to keep people enslaved (although there was other reason for the Civil War.) How about all those black men that served this country and came home and weren't able to vote, not able to go in the front entrance of a restaurant to get something to eat, not being able to play sports, and to get an education to name a few things that they were denied. 

It's sounds like a lot of people here are more for nationalism than patriotism. It's not about what's doing best for this country, but what's best for people that look and think like them.

 

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29 minutes ago, WestHardinfan1 said:

 

Whats not surprising is you lie about my quote.....typical.......

l just quoted what you wrote.. 

I said that stupidity is ideolizing anything confederate related... and the very first word that comes out of your mouth is "No"? Not surprising.

I keep seeing y'all compare here to Germany when it comes to this topic, and to me its funny.

You wont see any monuments of Hitler over there. And over here, U.S doesnt put the victims and true heroes on pedastals.

Thats the real difference between Germany and the U.S...history here ideolizes and showcases the "Hitlers" with these monuments. Putting them on pedastals. Germany preserves history by honoring their victims. Learn the difference before trying to compare.

But let me ease up, your ban trigger finger is happy whenever you have opposition. You win. 👍

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57 minutes ago, mellon said:

Just don't use my tax dollars for the re-naming. Every school in Tyler has been rebuilt in the past several years, so the tax payer has paid his/her fair share. If people are so dead serious on this issue then they can contribute to the cause.

From my understanding, when the bond was passed it was due to the understanding that the names wouldn’t be changed or voters wouldn’t have passed it? 

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23 minutes ago, ANTI said:

l just quoted what you wrote.. 

I said that stupidity is ideolizing anything confederate related... and the very first word that comes out of your mouth is "No"? Not surprising.

I keep seeing y'all compare here to Germany when it comes to this topic, and to me its funny.

You wont see any monuments of Hitler over there. And over here, U.S doesnt put the victims and true heroes on pedastals.

Thats the real difference between Germany and the U.S...history here ideolizes and showcases the "Hitlers" with these monuments. Putting them on pedastals. Germany preserves history by honoring their victims. Learn the difference before trying to compare.

But let me ease up, your ban trigger finger is happy whenever you have opposition. You win. 👍

No you EDITED what I wrote to change my meaning....which is a violation of the rules I will let slide this time since you probably didn't know that.......

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If the Redskins have to change their name because it's disrespectful to the Indians, I guess Nacogdoches and Natchitoches have to change their name too .... Heck, I live on Camp Tonkawa Road, I could be in deep doodoo .....

Edited by KirtFalcon
yo mama
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I don't have a dog in this hunt.  Referring to statues in my area I am strongly against removing them.  Somehow there is this attitude that the memory of our ancestors must be purged.  We are just as American as any Yankee (nobody complains about that name).  Nobody in my family tree was a  slave owner.  But those statues have stood for my lifetime and somebody back when thought it was a good idea to honor men who fought for the south.  It was a CIVIL war and it is over.  Those memorials don't hurt anybody.  We all know how it turned out and the slaves got freed as they should have.  All this political correctness and tiptoeing around what you can say and what you cannot say is very tiring for an old man like me.

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I just don’t understand how someone can claim to be patriot to the USA and support the memorialization of the confederacy. 

It was treason per the definition given in the constitution.  They declared war against the USA. 

How can one claim to love this country and yet memorialize those that set out to destroy it???

Defending and celebrating treason. I don’t get it.

As for the school names.... it’s NO ONES business but current students and alumni IMHO.  The ones donning the uniforms and representing the school are the ones that count.   Anyone else’s opinion is pretty irrelevant.

 

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There are so many angles in changing the names of schools, buildings, removal of statues, etc.  I have no answer for any of it.  I understand people's desire to rename schools and building all of which will come at a financial expense that was not budgeted.  It is an expense that will not just be absorbed.  Someone will pay (taxpayers) and/or something will be given up (budget cuts).

And, as many have pointed out here, what about towns, cities, and counties that were named after people that had a questionable past?  Who gets to choose on where the line will be drawn on what to change and what to keep?  Is it a financial decision at that time or will someone (who?) just concede that it is not "practical"?  Is there a financial cost ceiling?  If it is deemed as not "practical" how will it eloquently be explained away?  People will argue both sides. If you simply put an asterisk beside a city or town name explaining its naming history then those opposed to removing statues will claim the same thing can be done for a statue or school.  Most arguments on both sides have their merits.

So many questions and so few answers.  Emotion and logic collide.  Justice and tradition collide.  My head and heart hurts.

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8 hours ago, nacdragon07 said:

Our city names are not offensive.

Sarcasm, son, sarcasm ...

The name Redskins isn't offensive either,  just ask the vast majority of native Americans who aren't offended by the name ....

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I'm just curious...

If some of you actually lived in Tyler..... and you had kids attending HS there..... and they schools were named Bobby Seale High School or Malcomb X High School..... and they told you they supported a name change to something less radical or divisive…. wonder how many of you would support THAT change?

I mean...it's history. 

I still think it should come down to what the current students and alumni want.  Everyone else can kick rocks TBH.

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48 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

I'm just curious...

If some of you actually lived in Tyler..... and you had kids attending HS there..... and they schools were named Bobby Seale High School or Malcomb X High School..... and they told you they supported a name change to something less radical or divisive…. wonder how many of you would support THAT change?

I mean...it's history. 

I still think it should come down to what the current students and alumni want.  Everyone else can kick rocks TBH.

What about the taxpayers? Why would they not have a say? If I am giving money to something I would want a voice.

Just a question.

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5 minutes ago, Hookemhorns88 said:

What about the taxpayers? Why would they not have a say? If I am giving money to something I would want a voice.

Just a question.

Taxpayers are the ONLY ones who should have a say in the matter.......

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2 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

Not giving an opinion on this subject but I wanted to do a quick survey.

IF the Flag of Mexico or a statue of Santa Anna went up at the courthouse in your city or town this week, what would be your reaction? 

 

1 hour ago, Mavchamp said:

I'm just curious...

If some of you actually lived in Tyler..... and you had kids attending HS there..... and they schools were named Bobby Seale High School or Malcomb X High School..... and they told you they supported a name change to something less radical or divisive…. wonder how many of you would support THAT change?

I mean...it's history. 

I still think it should come down to what the current students and alumni want.  Everyone else can kick rocks TBH.

Irrelevant strawmen finally make an appearance.....😅😅😅😅

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5 minutes ago, WestHardinfan1 said:

 

Irrelevant strawmen finally make an appearance.....😅😅😅😅

Only irrelevant to you because we all know what your answer would be and you would be the very definition of a hypocrite.

You would be at the TISD office  for every meeting supporting that change.

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11 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

I just don’t understand how someone can claim to be patriot to the USA and support the memorialization of the confederacy. 

It was treason per the definition given in the constitution.  They declared war against the USA. 

How can one claim to love this country and yet memorialize those that set out to destroy it???

Defending and celebrating treason. I don’t get it.

As for the school names.... it’s NO ONES business but current students and alumni IMHO.  The ones donning the uniforms and representing the school are the ones that count.   Anyone else’s opinion is pretty irrelevant.

 

How can you say that our opinion is irrelevant?  And you act like I am saying "Don't Do It!"  I am saying, why are they going after the school first?  You know this isn't coming from the parents and students.  This is coming from the political PC crowds outside of the schools.  This action is being put forth by the "must act now to show we are doing something" group on the school board.  Tear it down and rename it... that doesn't matter as much to me except, the people pressuring them will see this as the ultimate win and never blink and eye or give 2 poops about the city name and who it is named after.  <That is what bothers me.>  

You come from a town that is as racist as it gets when it comes to division between blacks and whites.  Marshall would be looking at the same problem if we had buildings named after racial figures.  The only real segregation that happens in Marshall is Wiley College.  So with that being said, is it the buildings and names making people racist or is it the people just being racists?  I think its the latter.  Change the people, not the names.

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15 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

Only irrelevant to you because we all know what your answer would be and you would be the very definition of a hypocrite.

You would be at the TISD office  for every meeting supporting that change.

😅😅😅😅

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Robert E Lee fought in war for our country... owned slaves. 
 

John Tyler owned slaves in our country....

Mexico has good food but in another country.......

Apples to oranges. 
 

Another dumb thing is compare these times to Germany. Last I checked we are going around Holocaust’n and genocide’n........

Change the redskins name, ok. Might as well change every other one too. They all will fit someone’s agenda. 

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