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Tyler High At Sherman


NODAYSOFFTX
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Who Wins  

14 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins

    • Sherman in a blowout
      0
    • Tyler high in a blowout
      0
    • Sherman in a close one
    • Tyler high in a close one
    • Tyler shouldn’t show
      0
    • COVID WINS
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  • Poll closed on 11/27/2020 at 08:00 PM

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I never said demographics didn't matter. What I said is that demograghics aint the reason for JT problems.

I agree, that the talent pool has shrunk. BUT, at the same time this happen, JT dropped to 4a (now 5a). So they aren't playing Katy and Westlake, and DeSoto anymore. They are playing teams like West Mesquite, Poteet, Texas High, and other similar schools that are on the same or lower level from a talent standpoint  and they also have similar demograhic changes. 

Other than some of the affluent suburbs of the big cities, nearly everybody in Texas is having a change in demographics to a heavily hispanic population. But Hispanics do play football.  In the valley, in El Paso, in San Antonio, in Corpus. they play, so there is hope.

No one is saying demo doesn't have an affect. What we are saying, is that we don't believe the demo issue is the MAIN reason for the failures at JT right now.  Its very clear when Mt Pleasant can blow out teams and JT can't, that demographics is not the main issue. 

And by the way, I have talked with people close to the program, and they have expressed that one of the main problems is the connection between the staff and players and parents. 

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16 minutes ago, VonG said:

On a side note. Lee had 2 freshman teams. They only had 1 jv team. If I remember correctly. They only 56 kids on their varsity not 70. That's what I counted on their team picture. I could be off a few but it definitely wasn't no 70 players. 

Another thing. I named all charter schools in one of my posts. There is no way all those kids would end up at Lee if there were no charter schools to go to. They couldn't physically fit all those kids at Lee. So yeah JT would benefit also. Not all kids who go to those schools live south of Hwy 31. 

Scratch that. If Tisd was counting the 456 kids who go to rise and early college toward JT and Lee. That would benefit both high schools. Not saying they would play sports but it enhance their enrollment numbers. 

If you count, Lee had enough JV players to field two JV teams, and they had two Last yr I think.  

And maybe not all of those kids would end up at Lee, but 75% of them would..  Lee until recently always had 600-700 more kids than John Tyler so not sure what would be different now. 

There are some kids at Cumberland that would be at Tyler High, and few would would probably play sports. The other schools, would almost 90-95% end up at Legacy. Gorman always been there, so Im sure the other privates took away from them too. But kids at All Saints, Grace, Brook Hill ain't coming to North Tyler.  They either be a Legacy or Gorman, maybe Whitehouse or Bullard.

And who cares about the kids at Rise.  they don't play sports.  If anything its good they are there, because not, they would boost Cujo enrollment into 6a, where they would look worse. 

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10 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

I never said demographics didn't matter. What I said is that demograghics aint the reason for JT problems.

I agree, that the talent pool has shrunk. BUT, at the same time this happen, JT dropped to 4a (now 5a). So they aren't playing Katy and Westlake, and DeSoto anymore. They are playing teams like West Mesquite, Poteet, Texas High, and other similar schools that are on the same or lower level from a talent standpoint  and they also have similar demograhic changes. 

Other than some of the affluent suburbs of the big cities, nearly everybody in Texas is having a change in demographics to a heavily hispanic population. But Hispanics do play football.  In the valley, in El Paso, in San Antonio, in Corpus. they play, so there is hope.

No one is saying demo doesn't have an affect. What we are saying, is that we don't believe the demo issue is the MAIN reason for the failures at JT right now.  Its very clear when Mt Pleasant can blow out teams and JT can't, that demographics is not the main issue. 

And by the way, I have talked with people close to the program, and they have expressed that one of the main problems is the connection between the staff and players and parents. 

Well if you don't have the numbers, it's hard to compete. JT has a numbers problem. Whether it is the coaching or whatever. It's a problem. 

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11 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

If you count, Lee had enough JV players to field two JV teams, and they had two Last yr I think.  

And maybe not all of those kids would end up at Lee, but 75% of them would..  Lee until recently always had 600-700 more kids than John Tyler so not sure what would be different now. 

There are some kids at Cumberland that would be at Tyler High, and few would would probably play sports. The other schools, would almost 90-95% end up at Legacy. Gorman always been there, so Im sure the other privates took away from them too. But kids at All Saints, Grace, Brook Hill ain't coming to North Tyler.  They either be a Legacy or Gorman, maybe Whitehouse or Bullard.

And who cares about the kids at Rise.  they don't play sports.  If anything its good they are there, because not, they would boost Cujo enrollment into 6a, where they would look worse. 

I never included the private schools. I only said charter school because they are free to attend. Most of the kids who attend the charter schools probably couldn't afford to go to the private schools. If they could they would be there. The parents most likely didn't want them going to Tisd schools and the privates were out the question so they chose an alternative. 

I'm glad we have alot of choices. When Tyler started growing, Tisd wasn't passing bonds back in the days to house all these kids.

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26 minutes ago, VonG said:

Well if you don't have the numbers, it's hard to compete. JT has a numbers problem. Whether it is the coaching or whatever. It's a problem. 

so thats the debate we having.  We know there is a numbers problem, but is it because of demograhics, coaching, or both.

I think its reasonable for Tyler high to have at least 130 kids in program at minimum. That would be something like 40 freshman, 40 JV, 50 varsity.  

You could do those numbers with 100 black kids and 30 hispanics easily.  Honestly, they really should have about 150-200 kids.  

And I think there is enough there, to be able to easily beat bad teams.  They don't have to be state contenders, but there is no excuse not to make the playoffs in this district, because MT. Pleasant and Nacogdoches probably would have.

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14 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

so thats the debate we having.  We know there is a numbers problem, but is it because of demograhics, coaching, or both.

I think its reasonable for Tyler high to have at least 130 kids in program at minimum. That would be something like 40 freshman, 40 JV, 50 varsity.  

You could do those numbers with 100 black kids and 30 hispanics easily.  Honestly, they really should have about 150-200 kids.  

And I think there is enough there, to be able to easily beat bad teams.  They don't have to be state contenders, but there is no excuse not to make the playoffs in this district, because MT. Pleasant and Nacogdoches probably would have.

It's definitely both. I'm not gone sit here and act demographics is not playing major part with sub par coaching. The talent is definitely lacking. I don't have a problem with them losing if they are leaving it all on the field. I have a problem when they look lost and not giving it their best. That falls on coaching and no leadership by the main players. 

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14 hours ago, VonG said:

I said East Texas. JT is a talent based school. They don't have the talent of year's past. You also can't compare JT those other schools because they lack depth all the time and lack talent sometimes. JT has to split with Lee. Some years we have talent some years Tyler talent is very limited. Losing 200-400 blacks hurts your talent. That's probably 10-20 good players you lose because you lost that many blacks. JT is demographically challenged when it comes to football. Add Lee into that conversation also. That's why we have two less than average teams. I have been saying Tyler football as a whole is down. Add in the fact to many schools are eating off Tyler. We don't have enough talent to feed so many schools. In the 90's and early 2000's we had 4 football teams in Tyler, Texas. Now we have at least 9 including Brook Hill. I'm pretty sure most their students are from Tyler. 

FACTS AND TRUTH 

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I side with JTFAN99. A down JT team should be able to compete with some of Sherman’s best teams. 9 points is unacceptable. A true working system would mitigate some JTs numbers problem. Contrary to popular belief, a talent based system, isn’t actually a system at all. That can’t even be considered a plan. Outside of that they don’t even attempt to play complementary football at all. A team with numbers and depth problem should not be running a spread offense. That in no way helps the defense. These issues aren’t new to JT. JT has always had a numbers problem, even at the height of their success. The coaches are aware of the talent it’s getting long before they reach varsity. They’ve made no adjustments to what they’ve seen coming. With a system in place, even in lean years, you’re competitive. How do you think some of these schools NEVER have down years? The 90s teams were so successful because of the system in place. It allowed them to compete at the highest level with lower numbers. Add talent to a true working system and you become dominant. 

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24 minutes ago, LionHated said:

I side with JTFAN99. A down JT team should be able to compete with some of Sherman’s best teams. 9 points is unacceptable. A true working system would mitigate some JTs numbers problem. Contrary to popular belief, a talent based system, isn’t actually a system at all. That can’t even be considered a plan. Outside of that they don’t even attempt to play complementary football at all. A team with numbers and depth problem should not be running a spread offense. That in no way helps the defense. These issues aren’t new to JT. JT has always had a numbers problem, even at the height of their success. The coaches are aware of the talent it’s getting long before they reach varsity. They’ve made no adjustments to what they’ve seen coming. With a system in place, even in lean years, you’re competitive. How do you think some of these schools NEVER have down years? The 90s teams were so successful because of the system in place. It allowed them to compete at the highest level with lower numbers. Add talent to a true working system and you become dominant. 

thats all most of us are trying to say.  There hasn't been enough loss in talent to not beat North, Sherman or Wylie East by 2 to 3 TDs.  

 Even during the 90s, they only had 50 kids on varsity.   In the 90s JT was a school or 1800 kids beating schools with 3000+ on a regular basis. So whats harder, a school with 700 black kids beating schools with 1800 students, or a school with 1000 black kids beating schools with 3000+ kids. 

And yes, there is no adjustment to talent.  You know Sanchez can't run the spread like Bryson, Geo or Greg, etc.  Why not change things to fit talent.  I've had the chance to follow Neville Football in Monroe for a while because of family. When they have a top QB, they run spread. Other yrs, you may see a offense suited for a running team.

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8 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

thats all most of us are trying to say.  There hasn't been enough loss in talent to not beat North, Sherman or Wylie East by 2 to 3 TDs.  

 Even during the 90s, they only had 50 kids on varsity.   In the 90s JT was a school or 1800 kids beating schools with 3000+ on a regular basis. So whats harder, a school with 700 black kids beating schools with 1800 students, or a school with 1000 black kids beating schools with 3000+ kids. 

And yes, there is no adjustment to talent.  You know Sanchez can't run the spread like Bryson, Geo or Greg, etc.  Why not change things to fit talent.  I've had the chance to follow Neville Football in Monroe for a while because of family. When they have a top QB, they run spread. Other yrs, you may see a offense suited for a running team.

Coaches too lazy to change anything. Rather steal money in the form of a paycheck than to do right by the kids.

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2 minutes ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

Coaches too lazy to change anything. Rather steal money in the form of a paycheck than to do right by the kids.

I don't know. I just know, what they run now is totally dependent on having a very good qb.  For yrs they did.  But when qb play is down, the entire team suffers. 

 

.

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14 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

thats all most of us are trying to say.  There hasn't been enough loss in talent to not beat North, Sherman or Wylie East by 2 to 3 TDs.  

 Even during the 90s, they only had 50 kids on varsity.   In the 90s JT was a school or 1800 kids beating schools with 3000+ on a regular basis. So whats harder, a school with 700 black kids beating schools with 1800 students, or a school with 1000 black kids beating schools with 3000+ kids. 

And yes, there is no adjustment to talent.  You know Sanchez can't run the spread like Bryson, Geo or Greg, etc.  Why not change things to fit talent.  I've had the chance to follow Neville Football in Monroe for a while because of family. When they have a top QB, they run spread. Other yrs, you may see a offense suited for a running team.

Apparently they didn't have enough talent to beat those teams by 2 or 3 touchdowns. We like to think JT should beat those teams because we think this is JT. We are better than you. The game is played on the field. They don't care about JT name or history. That's the same mentality that the cowboys fans and longhorn fans have. We suppose to win just because of who we are.

They do need to change the offense up but it's easier said than done. Especially when you been running some type of spread for 18 years.

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7 minutes ago, VonG said:

Apparently they didn't have enough talent to beat those teams by 2 or 3 touchdowns. We like to think JT should beat those teams because we think this is JT. We are better than you. The game is played on the field. They don't care about JT name or history. That's the same mentality that the cowboys fans and longhorn fans have. We suppose to win just because of who we are.

They do need to change the offense up but it's easier said than done. Especially when you been running some type of spread for 18 years.

we asking them to beat Sherman, not Lee.  shouldn't be this hard. 

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Lol. Well....we actually are kind of supposed to beat Sherman and East because of who we are. Ijs. JT started heading downhill the moment they decided to put all their talent on the offensive side of the ball and not stop anyone. They could easily score 40 yet still lose, instead of scoring 21, stopping your opponents and winning. You can always find ways to manufacture points. 

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At the end of the day, the black kids arent even coming out for football at Tyler. So when I think about the reasons TH suffer...naturally demo comes up last on that list.

Well, close to last. I don't buy for a second that JT is losing athletes to privates and if they do...it aint nothing major. Maybe a kid or two. A Charter like Cumberland? Eh...maybe a very very few leave JT for it. But what does that have to do with football participation? Cumberland doesnt even have football.

JT struggles clearly point to two main culprits IMO.

1. Coaching/Culture

2. TISD zoning heavily favoring Legacy

Heavier emphasis on coaching/culture though. 6AM practices aint gonna get kids to come out and play for you. Telling folks you're headed out aint gonna get kids to play hard for you. And benching players who should start aint gonna keep players around.

Also, Holmes need to learn to adjust to his personnel....not the other way around. If he wanna play Sanchez over Pinkard and Cam Ford (which is too damn funny)....fine...but its pretty idiotic running a spread offense with a QB who cant throw. 

Nothing wrong with running stuff from under center. Longview the only big school in ETX that has figured that out lol

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3 hours ago, ANTI said:

At the end of the day, the black kids arent even coming out for football at Tyler. So when I think about the reasons TH suffer...naturally demo comes up last on that list.

Well, close to last. I don't buy for a second that JT is losing athletes to privates and if they do...it aint nothing major. Maybe a kid or two. A Charter like Cumberland? Eh...maybe a very very few leave JT for it. But what does that have to do with football participation? Cumberland doesnt even have football.

JT struggles clearly point to two main culprits IMO.

1. Coaching/Culture

2. TISD zoning heavily favoring Legacy

Heavier emphasis on coaching/culture though. 6AM practices aint gonna get kids to come out and play for you. Telling folks you're headed out aint gonna get kids to play hard for you. And benching players who should start aint gonna keep players around.

Also, Holmes need to learn to adjust to his personnel....not the other way around. If he wanna play Sanchez over Pinkard and Cam Ford (which is too damn funny)....fine...but its pretty idiotic running a spread offense with a QB who cant throw. 

Nothing wrong with running stuff from under center. Longview the only big school in ETX that has figured that out lol

Yea I say this on my podcast every week sanchez is not a spread qb wouldn’t even really say he’s a qb just got put out there   Jt running that Longview under center offens probaly would worked with how good the running game was I mean y’all been doing it for years and won state with that same formula recently 

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6 hours ago, ANTI said:

At the end of the day, the black kids arent even coming out for football at Tyler. So when I think about the reasons TH suffer...naturally demo comes up last on that list.

Well, close to last. I don't buy for a second that JT is losing athletes to privates and if they do...it aint nothing major. Maybe a kid or two. A Charter like Cumberland? Eh...maybe a very very few leave JT for it. But what does that have to do with football participation? Cumberland doesnt even have football.

JT struggles clearly point to two main culprits IMO.

1. Coaching/Culture

2. TISD zoning heavily favoring Legacy

Heavier emphasis on coaching/culture though. 6AM practices aint gonna get kids to come out and play for you. Telling folks you're headed out aint gonna get kids to play hard for you. And benching players who should start aint gonna keep players around.

Also, Holmes need to learn to adjust to his personnel....not the other way around. If he wanna play Sanchez over Pinkard and Cam Ford (which is too damn funny)....fine...but its pretty idiotic running a spread offense with a QB who cant throw. 

Nothing wrong with running stuff from under center. Longview the only big school in ETX that has figured that out lol

exactly, when they had Haynes, the open up offense more. When they had the kid from Harmony, kept it run heavy.  The system Longview runs which is that Pat Collins veer offense (very similar to what West Monroe has been doing since the mid 90s because Don Shows and Pat Collins come from same coaching tree) is winning football.  Is it flashy...NO...but good downhil running, which burns clock and keeps you in the game. 

I love the spread, and JT had a string of div.1 qbs that you would hardly ever see at a Public school, but if you don't have that qb, it doesn't equal winning football. You go 3 and out fast, and keep your def on the field all day long, which equals to them giving up alot of points, even when the play well.

And clearly a culture has been set at Longview that keeps the kids wanting to come out.

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18 hours ago, CUJONATION83 said:

Again this is facts! There has to be changes in the program IMO.

I think they will run it back again like this next yr.  

They have like 4 or 5 O-lineman back.  They probably expect Sanchez to be much better next yr with a yr under his belt.  All of the WRs are back, and McFall is back at RB.  Lots of guys back on Def.

However, other than the obvious talent you see at the skill positions, this team took a step back when they made the QB change. You can clearly see it in the stats.  

I just don't know if things will be much better next yr.  Maybe they make playoffs as 4th place team.  

Any idea on qb situation? I think most likely its Sanchez, unless  Franklin is the guy or somebody transfers in.  

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6 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

I think they will run it back again like this next yr.  

They have like 4 or 5 O-lineman back.  They probably expect Sanchez to be much better next yr with a yr under his belt.  All of the WRs are back, and McFall is back at RB.  Lots of guys back on Def.

However, other than the obvious talent you see at the skill positions, this team took a step back when they made the QB change. You can clearly see it in the stats.  

I just don't know if things will be much better next yr.  Maybe they make playoffs as 4th place team.  

Any idea on qb situation? I think most likely its Sanchez, unless  Franklin is the guy or somebody transfers in.  

Dude from danger field need to come back lmao. But he can’t now cause wouldn’t he have to sit out his junior or senior year?

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