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Timpson vs Shiner 7:30p Thursday


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State semi-finals  

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  • Poll closed on 12/11/2020 at 01:00 AM

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3 hours ago, Gen7Dragon said:

Shiner, Refugio, Mart, Canadian, Mason, and probably a few more. All have a huge advantage over the homegrown, natural selection small schools. 

 

Nah those teams just like the weight room more than those home grown teams from Joe, Timpson etc etc

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1 hour ago, wooderson said:

Generic line? You want to talk about generic line then look at every region 3 person that says region 3 will beat the region 4 representative every year. What about the East Texas speed line year in and year out. What about the “they have Never seen a defense like ours” line. Also you are right one of these years I might be wrong and you all might be right but at least I give legitimate reasons and if it happens I turn out to be wrong then so be it. I tried to come in this forum asking for honest opinions  and giving my legitimate facts yet I am treated with hostility because you guys don’t like what you hear. 

I can speak for myself and am not responsible for what anyone else says.  You didn't see The Honcho speaking about "east texas speed" or "Defense like ours". The Honcho doesn't speak in cliches.  I didn't have a dog in this fight other than of course rooting for east texas as opposed to a team from an area of the state I have no ties to.  I simply mused that it could be a good game.  And as we know it did not turn out to be a good game.  I don't believe I have treated you with hostility. I have pooped on you, yes, because your overall demeanor and attitude. 👌

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10 minutes ago, GreaseLightning said:

It’s simple genetics guys.... Good friend of mine has a saying “The calf gonna look like the cow”..... mostly he refers to women when he says this but it applies to ftball players as well. Shiner’s sideline full of 6’0”-6’2” kids at 200lb-250lbs and are athletic. The stands behind them full of parents with that genetic pedigree. Add the 4 to really fast athletes and you have a recipe for success. Shiner’s down field blockn is huge for the RB success. Most East Tx linemen are 5’7”-5’10” and 230lb-270lb and can’t move quite as well. Deep playoff runs are won at line of scrimmage. Avg onlookers believe it’s the flashy QB or WR but SA last year had the best line to go with their skilled kids and that’s why it was the most competitive game in a decade. For the most part athletes cancel each other out and the trenches determine the winner.

Most East Tx linemen would not be accurate.  Maybe at the lower classifications in the area, but certainly not Most East TX linemen in general.  

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Just now, GreaseLightning said:

2A or small school 

Yea, it's tough when your linemen don't fit the ideal mold.  Although I believe it was the left tackle for Timpson, he looks like Tyron Smith out there. lol. I have never watched him close enough to say if he plays at a high level, but he passed the eye test.  

That being said, Shiner does good to have a line looking like theirs does at this level.  They easily looked like an o-line you'd see at a 3 or even 4A level for some schools.  

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9 minutes ago, GreaseLightning said:

2A or small school ..... Small towns where people generally don’t move away and their kids attend same school as mom and dad

Another problem is people need to travel and get out and see other areas play ftball. I’ve lives in East Tx my whole life but travel to all playoff games I can and state games as well. East Tx people only watch their local teams and think they are the best thing ever.

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2 minutes ago, GreaseLightning said:

Another problem is people need to travel and get out and see other areas play ftball. I’ve lives in East Tx my whole life but travel to all playoff games I can and state games as well. East Tx people only watch their local teams and think they are the best thing ever.

I hear you. I don't know that its fair to say or assume thats just an East Tx people thing though. I would bet the majority of folks only follow the team in their town and their general area teams at most.  I believe more fans are casual than hardcore, ya know? It's been awesome this year with teams getting to broadcast their games and I wish that would be a permanent thing. I've gotten to watch more football this year of teams I've never seen before other than state championship games and its been nice.  But I don't think the average fan, east texas or not, is keeping up enough to really break these games down.  I still stand by my initial belief that on paper at least, it was conceivable that this could have been a game.  But now that paper has obviously been ripped to shreds and then burned to hell. lol

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I am ETX through and through, and no disrespect to anyone's teams, but I saw this coming a mile away. Timpson is LEGIT, but Shiner has been the biggest, nastiest, and toughest team in 2A football this year. Those guys are the real deal. I think they go on a run in 3A D2 and maybe 3A D1. 

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One problem that you notice is in ETX there’s not a whole lot of physical football anymore.  Carthage does it, Newton tried to, but in typical years they do it really well, and Waskom does it.  The rest of it is a bunch of teams who try to win with A+ athleticism at skill positions with no emphasis on physicality.  Shiner will line up and hit you in the mouth for 48 straight minutes, Mason and Refugio will do the same.  That’s why SA lost those years.  They thought they were physical until they played an actual physical football team, same with Timpson this year.  Those kids got hit in the mouth for a half and decided they didn’t really like playing Shiner anymore.  Until a region 3 team steps up and plays physical football all year, region 4 is gonna win it year in and year out.  Having big kids helps, that’s why SA was good, but where they lost is that all 11 kids on the field for the other team wanted to hit somebody every play, SA’s skill kids didn’t want any of that.  Timpson was more of the same, for the most part, last night, with smaller kids in the trenches on top of that.

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That’s not to say those are the only three physical football teams, those are just the three that are physical and have the athleticism to make a run in the playoffs most years.
 

And it’s not a comment on offensive philosophy, physical football can be played from any formation with any concept, except maybe some of that Hal Mumme/Mike Leach stuff, but I don’t wanna get into that

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15 minutes ago, Bulldog64 said:

That’s not to say those are the only three physical football teams, those are just the three that are physical and have the athleticism to make a run in the playoffs most years.
 

And it’s not a comment on offensive philosophy, physical football can be played from any formation with any concept, except maybe some of that Hal Mumme/Mike Leach stuff, but I don’t wanna get into that

I don’t know if teams “don’t want to” is correct terminology..... for instance the OLB or DE for Timpson had to wrong shoulder the lead blocker for Shiner all night in order to be effective. He tried but at most he was 180lbs and blocker was 260lb RB or 250lb pulling linemen.... I think it’s better said that he just wasn’t capable of sustaining the blow all night. Multiple times he was bent over holding shoulder or neck... That takes a toll on a thin dude

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36 minutes ago, Bulldog64 said:

One problem that you notice is in ETX there’s not a whole lot of physical football anymore.  Carthage does it, Newton tried to, but in typical years they do it really well, and Waskom does it.  The rest of it is a bunch of teams who try to win with A+ athleticism at skill positions with no emphasis on physicality.  Shiner will line up and hit you in the mouth for 48 straight minutes, Mason and Refugio will do the same.  That’s why SA lost those years.  They thought they were physical until they played an actual physical football team, same with Timpson this year.  Those kids got hit in the mouth for a half and decided they didn’t really like playing Shiner anymore.  Until a region 3 team steps up and plays physical football all year, region 4 is gonna win it year in and year out.  Having big kids helps, that’s why SA was good, but where they lost is that all 11 kids on the field for the other team wanted to hit somebody every play, SA’s skill kids didn’t want any of that.  Timpson was more of the same, for the most part, last night, with smaller kids in the trenches on top of that.

That is not a new thing. The knock on many East Texas and Deep East Texas teams has always been hit them in the mouth and they tend to stop trying. I have heard that for as long as I have been watching the game and once I started broadcasting and talking with coaches outside East Texas that has been a common comment, man they are fast and athletic but hit them in the mouth and they will fold. 

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33 minutes ago, GreaseLightning said:

I don’t know if teams “don’t want to” is correct terminology..... for instance the OLB or DE for Timpson had to wrong shoulder the lead blocker for Shiner all night in order to be effective. He tried but at most he was 180lbs and blocker was 260lb RB or 250lb pulling linemen.... I think it’s better said that he just wasn’t capable of sustaining the blow all night. Multiple times he was bent over holding shoulder or neck... That takes a toll on a thin dude

Not saying that Timpson didn’t play hard, they played very hard and are a very good football team.  Shiner is just more physical than them.  Timpson would much rather run around their opponent than over them, Shiner couldn’t care less whether they have to run over or around their opponent, but if running over them is the only option, they don’t care.  That’s all I mean. That it’s a “preferred” option for a lot of teams in ETX

and to your point, it kind of adds to mine.  On those off tackle plays, whatever they are, the end HAS to be physical at the point of attack. Has to.  Last night I saw Timpson kids try and run around blockers several times, which just runs themselves out of the play.  To beat teams like that, you have to win by beating them at their own game.  When a linemen pulls to the DE, he’s either going to kick out, or seal if you give that to him. You have to step up, make sure he doesn’t get the kick out by being physical and stopping him when y’all make contact, and simultaneously make sure you don’t give up outside leverage.  That didn’t happen last night.

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28 minutes ago, Bulldog64 said:

Not saying that Timpson didn’t play hard, they played very hard and are a very good football team.  Shiner is just more physical than them.  Timpson would much rather run around their opponent than over them, Shiner couldn’t care less whether they have to run over or around their opponent, but if running over them is the only option, they don’t care.  That’s all I mean. That it’s a “preferred” option for a lot of teams in ETX

and to your point, it kind of adds to mine.  On those off tackle plays, whatever they are, the end HAS to be physical at the point of attack. Has to.  Last night I saw Timpson kids try and run around blockers several times, which just runs themselves out of the play.  To beat teams like that, you have to win by beating them at their own game.  When a linemen pulls to the DE, he’s either going to kick out, or seal if you give that to him. You have to step up, make sure he doesn’t get the kick out by being physical and stopping him when y’all make contact, and simultaneously make sure you don’t give up outside leverage.  That didn’t happen last night.

260lb vs 180lb...... not possible for Timpson to do it all night. Not sustainable for the health of the Timpson defender. Sometimes it’s not the “x” and “o’s”.... It’s the Jim and Joes.... And those were clearly in Shiner’s favor last night....

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7 minutes ago, GreaseLightning said:

260lb vs 180lb...... not possible for Timpson to do it all night. Not sustainable for the health of the Timpson defender. Sometimes it’s not the “x” and “o’s”.... It’s the Jim and Joes.... And those were clearly in Shiner’s favor last night....

I think we’re saying the same thing.  The kids at Shiner are more physical is the point I’ve been making.

 

You’re from Joaquin, so you get a pass though.  I know y’all have trouble reading sometimes😉

 

jk jk.  All in good fun

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33 minutes ago, TxBroadcaster said:

That is not a new thing. The knock on many East Texas and Deep East Texas teams has always been hit them in the mouth and they tend to stop trying. I have heard that for as long as I have been watching the game and once I started broadcasting and talking with coaches outside East Texas that has been a common comment, man they are fast and athletic but hit them in the mouth and they will fold. 

I hate all this generally speaking type of assumptions about an entire region.  Not saying you specifically do this as I do not know you, but to me its not entirely unlike stereotyping based on race.  There are PLENTY of East Texas/Deep East Texas teams that if you hit them in the mouth they will hit you back harder than you ever thought about hitting. And the same can be said about teams from other areas of texas also having speed.  The speed and the athletes don't all reside in east texas and the big city areas.  

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5 minutes ago, mikehoncho said:

I hate all this generally speaking type of assumptions about an entire region.  Not saying you specifically do this as I do not know you, but to me its not entirely unlike stereotyping based on race.  There are PLENTY of East Texas/Deep East Texas teams that if you hit them in the mouth they will hit you back harder than you ever thought about hitting. And the same can be said about teams from other areas of texas also having speed.  The speed and the athletes don't all reside in east texas and the big city areas.  

You are not wrong about why it is said. 

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9 minutes ago, Bulldog64 said:

I think we’re saying the same thing.  The kids at Shiner are more physical is the point I’ve been making.

 

You’re from Joaquin, so you get a pass though.  I know y’all have trouble reading sometimes😉

 

jk jk.  All in good fun

I may reside in Joe now but I learned how to read at Sville so it’s even worse..... And you are correct in your physicality assessment. East Tx athletes for the most part rely on pure athleticism for success. When a team is less athletic but buys into the more physical side of ftball then purely athletic guys do tend to shy away from the challenge on a nightly basis.... And to be fair it’s a hard sell to the kids to buy into it..... I could name multiple but places like Shiner the mentality side of physical ftball is a cultural thing.....And clearly Shiner thrives in it. One of the better all around teams I’ve seen in 2A

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Texas Hometown Football

I was at the game and Shiner was a physically larger and more mature team (22 seniors). In the last UIL state track meet Shiner showed who was the fastest team in the state. Several of those athletes played last night. Shiner matched Timpson’s speed in the backfield, wideouts and secondary. The Comanches were much faster up front. I’m sure the Timpson players have never been hit that hard in their life.  

Once I saw the physical difference, I knew my pick of Shiner by 10 points was out the window. Shiner will lose a bunch of players and many are linemen; however, they that two and maybe three major college prospects back. If Timpson works hard in the offseason and keep all their players present and healthy, they will have good chance next season.

Post will have to play much better in the championship game than they did last season to keep the game close.

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10 hours ago, Gen7Dragon said:

Play Mart or Canadian. The teams in deep East Texas are homegrown squads. Real 2a schools. . Shiner and Refugio have a huge advantage over the homegrown teams. 

We have way better athletes just not all concentrated in one school. In Shelby County we have Timpson, Shelbyville, Joaquin and Tenaha who are all 2a. If we took the best 10 or 12 kids from each  town and made one squad it would be on par with what the region 4 "powerhouse" teams do. 

In this scenario Region 4 would not stand a snowballs chance in Hades!

If you did that, you would also probably by a 4A school.  Kind of defeats the purpose

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5 hours ago, VZCR said:

Texas Hometown Football

I was at the game and Shiner was a physically larger and more mature team (22 seniors). In the last UIL state track meet Shiner showed who was the fastest team in the state. Several of those athletes played last night. Shiner matched Timpson’s speed in the backfield, wideouts and secondary. The Comanches were much faster up front. I’m sure the Timpson players have never been hit that hard in their life.  

Once I saw the physical difference, I knew my pick of Shiner by 10 points was out the window. Shiner will lose a bunch of players and many are linemen; however, they that two and maybe three major college prospects back. If Timpson works hard in the offseason and keep all their players present and healthy, they will have good chance next season.

Post will have to play much better in the championship game than they did last season to keep the game close.

Who all from the Shiner backfield ran at the last state meet?

 

NVM. Went back and looked. Saw were they finished behind every ETx team they ran against. 

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15 hours ago, Gen7Dragon said:

Play Mart or Canadian. The teams in deep East Texas are homegrown squads. Real 2a schools. . Shiner and Refugio have a huge advantage over the homegrown teams. 

We have way better athletes just not all concentrated in one school. In Shelby County we have Timpson, Shelbyville, Joaquin and Tenaha who are all 2a. If we took the best 10 or 12 kids from each  town and made one squad it would be on par with what the region 4 "powerhouse" teams do. 

In this scenario Region 4 would not stand a snowballs chance in Hades!

First of all, you have a profane ignorance of how football is set up in our state.  Your entire post is made up gobble-d-gook. "Real 2a schools?"  You have more 2a schools in Shelby County because you have more population and more towns.  Take a visit to Refugio county and you will find it and one other small town (Woodsboro).  Refugio has just over 200 kids in their school, just like the East Texas 2a schools.  Woodsboro also has their own school.  

Take a visit to Mart.  Not much there, so of course all the kids go to their one school.  They don't have enough for a second school or they'd be playing 6-man football.  

If it makes you feel better to have this skewed thinking, more power to ya.

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