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nacdragon07

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What makes anyone else more qualified for the job than Barnes?  He has been with SA through many, many very successful seasons.  Has coached and learned under some of the best coaches in the business.  He has learned from Lynn Graves, Donald Hubbard, and Marty Murr (very impressive list of mentors).  Maybe there will be some applicants that have been an AD at other schools or even larger schools.  Do those qualifications outweigh stability in an already successful program with a guy that is a lifelong resident, young guy that has proven that he wants to stay at home, knows the kids, and is respected in the community?  To me, the latter sounds like a recipe for continued success.  Just my opinion.

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SAPack, i totally get where you are coming from. But let's look at a few other variables and perspectives. First of all, it seems you are advocating or this Coach Barnes. I am not advocating for anyone yet I do believe the most qualified should get the job and your question is specific to my perspective. Your question was, "What makes someone more qualified than Barnes?". Well first of all, anyone with Athletic Director experience is most likely more qualified. Anyone with Head Football Coaching experience is more qualified. Anyone with AD/HC and possibly coaching experience or even better, Head Coaching experience with Girls sports is more qualified. Anyone with experience coaching more sports than him is more qualified. Anyone that has been the Defensive Coordinator, Offensive Coordinator, Special Teams Coordinator, Strength and Conditioning Coordinator and Junior High Coordinator would have more experience than someone who does not have these experiences or titles. So to address your first question, I offer the above.

You go on to qualify his "greater qualification" with his being in place while, what you call, some of the best in the business were successful as the AD and Head Football Coach! So too were all the assistants under those same "best in the business" coaches. Are they equally qualified to lead the Wolf Pack? He has learned from Graves, Hubbard and Murr (a very impressive list of mentors). I agree. So if someone with AD experience who also coached under these men applies, would they not be more qualified? What if Coach Hubbard applies? Would you concede then that Coach Hubbard would be more qualified? You have done a great deal to establish him as such. 

Does AD experience outweigh "lifelong residency" with a coach as you speak of above? Absolutely it does. If your coach wants to be an AD so bad, why hasn't he explored those options? Is he only staying at home because it's easy and safe? Is it because he's protected to an extent? Why hasn't he test the waters of other places? Has he actually explored the reality that if he is one day AD/HC in his hometown that it only ends in being asked to leave and never coaching there again? That reality my friends. Maybe he has applied at other schools nearby, like Shelbyville and Alto. Maybe he got interviews, maybe not. Why didn't he get those jobs? Was it because he's uniquely qualified at a higher level than anyone that applies in SA or is it because he's not qualified as much as other applicants. 

You list that he is qualified and you argue he is more qualified because he wants to (Proven)  live in his home town??? Who doesn't? And because he "knows the kids"??? How is this a qualification? Every AD/HC that comes into a job learns to know the kids in short order. How is this a prerequisite to a qualification? And furthermore, he's respected in the community. That's great. But that too is not a professional qualification. It's clear you WANT this person to get the job, but you don't list anything that qualifies him for the job. 

You suggest he is a "continuation of success" (twist on your words) but that's not true at all. Lynn Graves, Don Hubbard and Marty Murr all had prior proven experience that proved to be what you call "some of the best" to come through SA. Coach Barnes has proven to be a complimentary positive addition as an assistant coach. I assume based on what others say here, he's the head Basketball coach. So his qualifications are, Head Basketball Coach, Offensive Coordinator, lives in his home town, kids like him and some people respect him. Don't fool yourself, there is no coach who every kid likes or every community member respects. 

If I were hiring a head coach of any sport, boy or girl, I would want a proven winner in said sport, proven winning record and someone who has been an AD before. It's a whole different ball game. 

So yes. There will be multiple applicants more qualified than Coach Barnes. I've stated before, the most qualified (professionally speaking) should get this and any other job that's open. I don't care if it's McDonald's or AD for a High School some place or President for that matter. If Coach Barnes is the most qualified, great. If not, they should do what is right. Hire the man that is most qualified. 

If Scott Surratt applies......you sticking with Barnes?

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15 minutes ago, CodeBreaker said:

SAPack, i totally get where you are coming from. But let's look at a few other variables and perspectives. First of all, it seems you are advocating or this Coach Barnes. I am not advocating for anyone yet I do believe the most qualified should get the job and your question is specific to my perspective. Your question was, "What makes someone more qualified than Barnes?". Well first of all, anyone with Athletic Director experience is most likely more qualified. Anyone with Head Football Coaching experience is more qualified. Anyone with AD/HC and possibly coaching experience or even better, Head Coaching experience with Girls sports is more qualified. Anyone with experience coaching more sports than him is more qualified. Anyone that has been the Defensive Coordinator, Offensive Coordinator, Special Teams Coordinator, Strength and Conditioning Coordinator and Junior High Coordinator would have more experience than someone who does not have these experiences or titles. So to address your first question, I offer the above.

You go on to qualify his "greater qualification" with his being in place while, what you call, some of the best in the business were successful as the AD and Head Football Coach! So too were all the assistants under those same "best in the business" coaches. Are they equally qualified to lead the Wolf Pack? He has learned from Graves, Hubbard and Murr (a very impressive list of mentors). I agree. So if someone with AD experience who also coached under these men applies, would they not be more qualified? What if Coach Hubbard applies? Would you concede then that Coach Hubbard would be more qualified? You have done a great deal to establish him as such. 

Does AD experience outweigh "lifelong residency" with a coach as you speak of above? Absolutely it does. If your coach wants to be an AD so bad, why hasn't he explored those options? Is he only staying at home because it's easy and safe? Is it because he's protected to an extent? Why hasn't he test the waters of other places? Has he actually explored the reality that if he is one day AD/HC in his hometown that it only ends in being asked to leave and never coaching there again? That reality my friends. Maybe he has applied at other schools nearby, like Shelbyville and Alto. Maybe he got interviews, maybe not. Why didn't he get those jobs? Was it because he's uniquely qualified at a higher level than anyone that applies in SA or is it because he's not qualified as much as other applicants. 

You list that he is qualified and you argue he is more qualified because he wants to (Proven)  live in his home town??? Who doesn't? And because he "knows the kids"??? How is this a qualification? Every AD/HC that comes into a job learns to know the kids in short order. How is this a prerequisite to a qualification? And furthermore, he's respected in the community. That's great. But that too is not a professional qualification. It's clear you WANT this person to get the job, but you don't list anything that qualifies him for the job. 

You suggest he is a "continuation of success" (twist on your words) but that's not true at all. Lynn Graves, Don Hubbard and Marty Murr all had prior proven experience that proved to be what you call "some of the best" to come through SA. Coach Barnes has proven to be a complimentary positive addition as an assistant coach. I assume based on what others say here, he's the head Basketball coach. So his qualifications are, Head Basketball Coach, Offensive Coordinator, lives in his home town, kids like him and some people respect him. Don't fool yourself, there is no coach who every kid likes or every community member respects. 

If I were hiring a head coach of any sport, boy or girl, I would want a proven winner in said sport, proven winning record and someone who has been an AD before. It's a whole different ball game. 

So yes. There will be multiple applicants more qualified than Coach Barnes. I've stated before, the most qualified (professionally speaking) should get this and any other job that's open. I don't care if it's McDonald's or AD for a High School some place or President for that matter. If Coach Barnes is the most qualified, great. If not, they should do what is right. Hire the man that is most qualified. 

If Scott Surratt applies......you sticking with Barnes?

Yeah, you stick with Barnes. SA can’t afford Surratt. Lol

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Many on here know the talent level in SA much better than me, however the objectivity of some poster may be in question.

The team went 1-9 this year and were not even competitive without out Barnes on the field. Who in SA is going to fill Barnes very large shoes?

Did SA even have enough players to play a JV schedule? If so, what was that groups record?

How about 8th grade, the incoming freshman? How much success has that group had?

And finally, how hard has Covid hit the area? how many families have moved and are not coming back?

 

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5 minutes ago, playactionpass39 said:

Many on here know the talent level in SA much better than me, however the objectivity of some poster may be in question.

The team went 1-9 this year and were not even competitive without out Barnes on the field. Who in SA is going to fill Barnes very large shoes?

Did SA even have enough players to play a JV schedule? If so, what was that groups record?

How about 8th grade, the incoming freshman? How much success has that group had?

And finally, how hard has Covid hit the area? how many families have moved and are not coming back?

 

SA went 3-5

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6 minutes ago, playactionpass39 said:

Many on here know the talent level in SA much better than me, however the objectivity of some poster may be in question.

The team went 1-9 this year and were not even competitive without out Barnes on the field. Who in SA is going to fill Barnes very large shoes?

Did SA even have enough players to play a JV schedule? If so, what was that groups record?

How about 8th grade, the incoming freshman? How much success has that group had?

And finally, how hard has Covid hit the area? how many families have moved and are not coming back?

 

Covid took out a lot of kids and coaches later half of season.  Multiple games were not played.  SA is very young in all areas. 

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I am going to disagree with “the most qualified” is who should get the job. What is the best fit for the district is who should get the job. 
 

who determines the best fit? The superintendent and the hiring/search committee if they do one. 
 

my personal opinion? Tory Barnes is a tremendous fit for San Augustine. On the field/court/track Coach Barnes has more than earned the chance to lead. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I do believe he has been both the Defensive Coordinator and Offensive Coordinator at some point in his time at SA. His basketball track record speaks for its self (1 state tournament and Atleast a couple of regional tournaments plus multiple 3 round deep runs). I believe he has also been the head track coach for several years and those SA kids fight their tails off on the track. 
 

As for the girls side? 1) he has daughters that are coming up right now. He isn’t just going to blow them off. 2) His wife has played a big role in SA girls athletics for a while now. 3) He worked with Mrs. Ford who spent the vast majority of her career leading SA girls. He’ll take plenty care of the girls. 
 

And lastly, someone mentioned why post it if you know who they are going to to hire...well have they posted it? Just because it is on Smoaky message boards doesn’t mean the job is “posted” publicly and seeking applicants. Heck they could just post it on the door of the admin office and meet the requirements of an “official posting”. 

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12 hours ago, CodeBreaker said:

SAPack, i totally get where you are coming from. But let's look at a few other variables and perspectives. First of all, it seems you are advocating or this Coach Barnes. I am not advocating for anyone yet I do believe the most qualified should get the job and your question is specific to my perspective. Your question was, "What makes someone more qualified than Barnes?". Well first of all, anyone with Athletic Director experience is most likely more qualified. Anyone with Head Football Coaching experience is more qualified. Anyone with AD/HC and possibly coaching experience or even better, Head Coaching experience with Girls sports is more qualified. Anyone with experience coaching more sports than him is more qualified. Anyone that has been the Defensive Coordinator, Offensive Coordinator, Special Teams Coordinator, Strength and Conditioning Coordinator and Junior High Coordinator would have more experience than someone who does not have these experiences or titles. So to address your first question, I offer the above.

You go on to qualify his "greater qualification" with his being in place while, what you call, some of the best in the business were successful as the AD and Head Football Coach! So too were all the assistants under those same "best in the business" coaches. Are they equally qualified to lead the Wolf Pack? He has learned from Graves, Hubbard and Murr (a very impressive list of mentors). I agree. So if someone with AD experience who also coached under these men applies, would they not be more qualified? What if Coach Hubbard applies? Would you concede then that Coach Hubbard would be more qualified? You have done a great deal to establish him as such. 

Does AD experience outweigh "lifelong residency" with a coach as you speak of above? Absolutely it does. If your coach wants to be an AD so bad, why hasn't he explored those options? Is he only staying at home because it's easy and safe? Is it because he's protected to an extent? Why hasn't he test the waters of other places? Has he actually explored the reality that if he is one day AD/HC in his hometown that it only ends in being asked to leave and never coaching there again? That reality my friends. Maybe he has applied at other schools nearby, like Shelbyville and Alto. Maybe he got interviews, maybe not. Why didn't he get those jobs? Was it because he's uniquely qualified at a higher level than anyone that applies in SA or is it because he's not qualified as much as other applicants. 

You list that he is qualified and you argue he is more qualified because he wants to (Proven)  live in his home town??? Who doesn't? And because he "knows the kids"??? How is this a qualification? Every AD/HC that comes into a job learns to know the kids in short order. How is this a prerequisite to a qualification? And furthermore, he's respected in the community. That's great. But that too is not a professional qualification. It's clear you WANT this person to get the job, but you don't list anything that qualifies him for the job. 

You suggest he is a "continuation of success" (twist on your words) but that's not true at all. Lynn Graves, Don Hubbard and Marty Murr all had prior proven experience that proved to be what you call "some of the best" to come through SA. Coach Barnes has proven to be a complimentary positive addition as an assistant coach. I assume based on what others say here, he's the head Basketball coach. So his qualifications are, Head Basketball Coach, Offensive Coordinator, lives in his home town, kids like him and some people respect him. Don't fool yourself, there is no coach who every kid likes or every community member respects. 

If I were hiring a head coach of any sport, boy or girl, I would want a proven winner in said sport, proven winning record and someone who has been an AD before. It's a whole different ball game. 

So yes. There will be multiple applicants more qualified than Coach Barnes. I've stated before, the most qualified (professionally speaking) should get this and any other job that's open. I don't care if it's McDonald's or AD for a High School some place or President for that matter. If Coach Barnes is the most qualified, great. If not, they should do what is right. Hire the man that is most qualified. 

If Scott Surratt applies......you sticking with Barnes?

You make some very valid points and I do not disagree with some of what you are saying.  

In my profession I have hired many folks that have been extremely successful that on paper were "less qualified" for a particular position than other applicants.  This may not seem "fair" to some but I did what was best for my company.  However, there are other factors that can be and are more important qualities than job history or even educational achievements.  Again, this is just my opinion.

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2 hours ago, villagegenius said:

I am going to disagree with “the most qualified” is who should get the job. What is the best fit for the district is who should get the job. 
 

who determines the best fit? The superintendent and the hiring/search committee if they do one. 
 

my personal opinion? Tory Barnes is a tremendous fit for San Augustine. On the field/court/track Coach Barnes has more than earned the chance to lead. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I do believe he has been both the Defensive Coordinator and Offensive Coordinator at some point in his time at SA. His basketball track record speaks for its self (1 state tournament and Atleast a couple of regional tournaments plus multiple 3 round deep runs). I believe he has also been the head track coach for several years and those SA kids fight their tails off on the track. 
 

As for the girls side? 1) he has daughters that are coming up right now. He isn’t just going to blow them off. 2) His wife has played a big role in SA girls athletics for a while now. 3) He worked with Mrs. Ford who spent the vast majority of her career leading SA girls. He’ll take plenty care of the girls. 
 

And lastly, someone mentioned why post it if you know who they are going to to hire...well have they posted it? Just because it is on Smoaky message boards doesn’t mean the job is “posted” publicly and seeking applicants. Heck they could just post it on the door of the admin office and meet the requirements of an “official posting”. 

You wouldn't disagree with me if you yourself were the most qualified and were passed up for a higher position by someone less qualified than yourself. You would cry foul justifiably so.

No, you do make some good points and have actually "qualified" Coach Barnes more than I personally knew. Again, my stance isn't for or against anyone. I just simply believe that every profession should always seek to hire the most qualified person possible for the money they have to spend. It's simply imho.

With that being said, Barnes is more qualified than I thought. I didn't know about him being the head track coach and so forth. Having daughters isn't a "qualification" but I understand your assumption that girls would be a priority because of this and his wife being on that side. I did not know that either. 

But, here's a very serious consideration. If he's hired to lead from the AD position and his wife is a coach as well, when (not if,....it's matter of when) it comes time for Barnes to move on, then SA will lose both coaches. Are they willing to live with this? A lot of coaches can't be in their hometown until retirement because of the volatility of the profession. 

Whoever pointed out that the job may not be posted got me to thinking. So, I looked it up on the website. It is in fact posted as an open job on the school website. I looked the administration and school board over real close too. There is a Barnes on the school board. Hhhmmmmm......nepotism?? I have no idea. Maybe it's possible this Barnes isn't related to that Barnes. Most certainly possible. But man, if he is kin, you have an AD, Girls Head Coach and a School Board member all kin? Who knows.

Quick question. You have a brain tumor. It is operable. But, it's a do or die situation. If they get it, you are all good. If not, you die. What doctor are you choosing? The one who has his job b/c he's kin to someone on the board of directors of that particular hospital, he lives in the same town as the hospital your are having your surgery and he's been in the hospital and "assisted" several surgeries by many great proven doctors???? OR Would you want the most qualified you can possibly find, regardless of his friends, who he knows, is kin to or where he lives? 

What about your money? Who you want investing and building your wealth? Most qualified or your "buddy"? 

This is why I left coaching some 20 years ago. All the most common logic used to make important decisions in almost all facets of society rarely practiced in the world of coaching. Coach Barnes has some serious advocates on this board and by not means am I against him. No matter who gets the job, I will always believe, in all professions, the most qualified proven applicants should be interviewed and the best of that bunch be hired. 

Have a blessed day!

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22 hours ago, Ijustwatch said:

San Augustine would be a good job for a young coordinator. 

I agree - Barnes is an EXCELLENT young coordinator.

As well as Head Basketball & Head Track Coach.

 

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On 4/7/2021 at 12:06 PM, CodeBreaker said:

You wouldn't disagree with me if you yourself were the most qualified and were passed up for a higher position by someone less qualified than yourself. You would cry foul justifiably so.

No, you do make some good points and have actually "qualified" Coach Barnes more than I personally knew. Again, my stance isn't for or against anyone. I just simply believe that every profession should always seek to hire the most qualified person possible for the money they have to spend. It's simply imho.

With that being said, Barnes is more qualified than I thought. I didn't know about him being the head track coach and so forth. Having daughters isn't a "qualification" but I understand your assumption that girls would be a priority because of this and his wife being on that side. I did not know that either. 

But, here's a very serious consideration. If he's hired to lead from the AD position and his wife is a coach as well, when (not if,....it's matter of when) it comes time for Barnes to move on, then SA will lose both coaches. Are they willing to live with this? A lot of coaches can't be in their hometown until retirement because of the volatility of the profession. 

Whoever pointed out that the job may not be posted got me to thinking. So, I looked it up on the website. It is in fact posted as an open job on the school website. I looked the administration and school board over real close too. There is a Barnes on the school board. Hhhmmmmm......nepotism?? I have no idea. Maybe it's possible this Barnes isn't related to that Barnes. Most certainly possible. But man, if he is kin, you have an AD, Girls Head Coach and a School Board member all kin? Who knows.

Quick question. You have a brain tumor. It is operable. But, it's a do or die situation. If they get it, you are all good. If not, you die. What doctor are you choosing? The one who has his job b/c he's kin to someone on the board of directors of that particular hospital, he lives in the same town as the hospital your are having your surgery and he's been in the hospital and "assisted" several surgeries by many great proven doctors???? OR Would you want the most qualified you can possibly find, regardless of his friends, who he knows, is kin to or where he lives? 

What about your money? Who you want investing and building your wealth? Most qualified or your "buddy"? 

This is why I left coaching some 20 years ago. All the most common logic used to make important decisions in almost all facets of society rarely practiced in the world of coaching. Coach Barnes has some serious advocates on this board and by not means am I against him. No matter who gets the job, I will always believe, in all professions, the most qualified proven applicants should be interviewed and the best of that bunch be hired. 

Have a blessed day!

"Most Qualified" is a load of ####.  By that logic, nobody else would ever get qualified because the "most qualified" would get all the openings.  The board is to look at the candidates and choose the best fit for their position.  You can have someone who checks all the "Qualifier" boxes who #### at their job or just isn't right for what you are doing with your program.

The brain surgery question is bull also.  First of all, as important as the position is, it ain't brain surgery.  Also, you make it out like you can either have Joe Bob and his homemade operating utensils or the dude of Grey's Anatomy.  You are most likely gonna take the guy your insurance will pay for.

As far as investing, I bet Bernie Madoff was pretty qualified.

You just hire people based on degrees and experience with no attention to how they will fit into your company?  You don't look at how they will fit in with their peers or get on board with the agenda of the company?  That doesn't sound smart.

If we hired coaches the way you think, there wouldn't be interviews.  It would just be who has the longest resume.

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"Most Qualified" is a load of something? So, I guess less qualified is better? I'm not following emotional driven statements like that. The most qualified for any job should be who gets the job. I'm sure you do not decide who works on your vehicles for mechanical issues based on who they "fit in" at work, but rather, who will do the best work per dollar. I'm sure you, nor anyone here, would argue with that, but you will for coaching. 

You have misinterpreted my position. I actually agree with some of what you are saying, just not all. I think every job, especially coaching, (b/c it's so easy to categorize this profession) should start with a list of criteria for what that school wants to hire. Since it's coaching, a proven winner should be on the list. That would be a single "Qualification". Doesn't make him the "Most Qualified", but it's a step that way. Now, take all of the other "variables' you and some other list and call them "Qualifications".....You are starting to make that list. 

Then you call in the people who meet the majority of those "Qualifications" and you choose the person who is the best total fit based on the list of criteria you started with.......the person who meets the deepest level of the majority of "Qualifications". You offer him the job.

That's how the MOST QUALIFIED gets the job. 

You are actually adding to my argument instead of contesting it. Good job!

It's incredibly ridiculous so many people are against hiring the best person for a job. You guys must be democrats

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And longest resume isn't "qualifications" homeboy. It's merely work history. If the resume shows a long list or history of failing, as in no winning seasons and such, then you have a "work history" of proven loser. That's a good thing. It's how you eliminate base on "QUALIFICATIONS". It's merely the documented work history of the applicant. 

You guys are why schools keep hiring guys with 10 years, zero winning seasons, no playoff appearances and #### like that. It's out there. There are coaches that never win at anything and they keep getting jobs. That's robbing kids, parents and communities of what a coach should be. But thank you for shedding light on this phenomenon I cannot understand. I do now. It's because people live in and let their emotions steer their decisions. Need to put that on a shelf at the door, be objective, understand the position you are hiring and what you want in that position and hire the best person you interview based on how well his qualifications match you listed criteria for what makes a great coach in your school. 

SIMPLE

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Congratulations to Tory Barnes on his first Athletic Director - Head Football Coaching opportunity. I don't know him, but it's evident he has a lot of support here. You guys said he was the head basketball coach also. Does anyone know if he'll continue in that role or not?


Good Luck Coach Barnes

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On 4/21/2021 at 8:05 PM, CodeBreaker said:

"Most Qualified" is a load of something? So, I guess less qualified is better? I'm not following emotional driven statements like that. The most qualified for any job should be who gets the job. I'm sure you do not decide who works on your vehicles for mechanical issues based on who they "fit in" at work, but rather, who will do the best work per dollar. I'm sure you, nor anyone here, would argue with that, but you will for coaching. 

You have misinterpreted my position. I actually agree with some of what you are saying, just not all. I think every job, especially coaching, (b/c it's so easy to categorize this profession) should start with a list of criteria for what that school wants to hire. Since it's coaching, a proven winner should be on the list. That would be a single "Qualification". Doesn't make him the "Most Qualified", but it's a step that way. Now, take all of the other "variables' you and some other list and call them "Qualifications".....You are starting to make that list. 

Then you call in the people who meet the majority of those "Qualifications" and you choose the person who is the best total fit based on the list of criteria you started with.......the person who meets the deepest level of the majority of "Qualifications". You offer him the job.

That's how the MOST QUALIFIED gets the job. 

You are actually adding to my argument instead of contesting it. Good job!

It's incredibly ridiculous so many people are against hiring the best person for a job. You guys must be democrats

Nobody on here is against hiring the best person for the job!  Good job understanding that we don't just think hiring the person who has the most wins as the head coach.  You have to look at where those wins were and how they came about.  How will that person run the program?  Will he make his system work no matter the Jimmies and Joes?  Or will he run what will work for the kids at the school?  Does his attitude and way of coaching fit at your school?  When you say qualifications, people think wins and losses not intangibles.

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