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47 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

I also think seeing a split in other sports is coming too. The football districts will be the district for all sports. 

probably coming in alignment 2024. 

That hasn’t even been mentioned by anyone has it?? I would think it needs to go to 6A football before it even comes close to the other sports 

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I haven't lived in Longview since damn near when I graduated HS but man....everytime I come back home... never fails to see something new built. Neighborhoods, businesses, roads...etc. Part of th

Wellllll, the numbers are *really* fuzzy right now, for a variety of reasons...  with different districts doing different things (RE: online/on-campus learning) you have a lot of kids who are "at LISD

Meanwhile PT is on a slow decline.  I live in Longview. No kids.  But if I did... it would be a no-brainer for me where I’d send them.  While LiSD has plenty of its own issues.... the opport

20 minutes ago, LoboFan07 said:

That hasn’t even been mentioned by anyone has it?? I would think it needs to go to 6A football before it even comes close to the other sports 

I think the split in 6A is inevitable.  When is the only question  

The other sports seems to be a lightning rod for some it seems.  

Some grumbling in some areas about the disparity in enrollments between bottom enrollment  5A Div II schools and top 5A Div I schools in other sports. 

Jacksonville Vs Lufkin.  sulphur Springs Vs Longview. 

But look at what SS has done this year in spite of being the smallest school in the district l... and it’s pretty spectacular.   Not a good example for the argument. 

But apparently it’s an issue for some. 
 

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1 hour ago, Mavchamp said:

I also think seeing a split in other sports is coming too. The football districts will be the district for all sports. 

probably coming in alignment 2024. 

Just my opinion...

I personally dont think they're too much worried about presplitting the other sports because honestly, enrollment has a far smaller effect on the other sports compared to what it may have on football.

Whether a school has 3500 or 2000 students, they'll both have the same 13 kids suited on varsity basketball.

There really wasnt a huge gap in talent when Tatum and Longview played, same bench depth.

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5 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

That district doesn’t really look much easier than the one you’re in now TBH.

Especially if Carthage was to end up back in 4A D1. 

 

Not necessarily. I wouldn’t say In terms of talent. Jacksonville would be more competitive with the numbers alone. Also keep in mind wouldn’t be playing a juggernaut like College station and Huntsville in bi district either. I am not knocking the region but the field is easier. I always thought Jax and nac would have vastly different outcomes if they had 4a numbers. Not easier but more balanced chance.  Carthage wasn’t losing District anyways so Jacksonville needs to be competitive. I am not implying immediate success but a level playing field. I may be downplaying 4a but it is what it is.

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5 hours ago, AllGoodNamesRGone said:

Not necessarily. I wouldn’t say In terms of talent. Jacksonville would be more competitive with the numbers alone. Also keep in mind wouldn’t be playing a juggernaut like College station and Huntsville in bi district either. I am not knocking the region but the field is easier. I always thought Jax and nac would have vastly different outcomes if they had 4a numbers. Not easier but more balanced chance.  Carthage wasn’t losing District anyways so Jacksonville needs to be competitive. I am not implying immediate success but a level playing field. I may be downplaying 4a but it is what it is.

Oh....without a doubt it can matter. Witnessed it myself with Marshall. 

Dropping out of the largest classification was absolutely the best thing to happen to us. 

Sure we had great success at times.  But we struggled at times too. It was definitely more hit or miss. 

Since dropping in 2002 we’ve had two title game appearances, four region semi appearances (six if you count those title years), multiple district championships, and only a handful of seasons with no playoffs. 

Been a good move for us overall.  But not automatic.  We’ve had some struggle seasons too.... 1-2 of them horrific. 

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7 minutes ago, Oldetexfan said:

They will raise the cutoff to just above Highland Park, as always.

Hypothetically, if they did push HP up...and moved Denton Ryan to Region I...man alive, would Region II like completely different. Especially with Lancaster now sitting however many months (I think it's been three now) without a head coach still.

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14 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

That district doesn’t really look much easier than the one you’re in now TBH.

Especially if Carthage was to end up back in 4A D1. 

 

Uhhh, I would take Chapel Hill, Palestine (we already every year, split most of the time), Henderson (we play most of the time), Mabank, Kaufman, or Terrell instead of Marshall, Texas High, and perhaps the "new" Pine Tree any day, even Nac as they seem to be getting bigger and better. At least the numbers are closer with those smaller schools, yes, they do have decent programs. I would think Carthage is far enough east for them to be another 4A-D1 district . . . but you never know . . .  always depends on who else drops / comes up. It's all speculation on the districts but I really see JAX going to 4A D1. 

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3 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

Oh....without a doubt it can matter. Witnessed it myself with Marshall. 

Dropping out of the largest classification was absolutely the best thing to happen to us. 

Sure we had great success at times.  But we struggled at times too. It was definitely more hit or miss. 

Since dropping in 2002 we’ve had two title game appearances, four region semi appearances (six if you count those title years), multiple district championships, and only a handful of seasons with no playoffs. 

Been a good move for us overall.  But not automatic.  We’ve had some struggle seasons too.... 1-2 of them horrific. 

Agreed, Mav.

2004 . . . Palestine drops to 4A, go to semi-finals that year. Have had some good, some bad years. But 5A football for them would have been pretty bad all these years.

2020 . . .  Lindale drops to 4A, go to state finals. Fluke? We'll see.

Long term, year in and year out, numbers matter. Yeah, you may have an Atlanta every now and then (3A state champs in 2004 with 25 varsity players, I counted!) but, overall, you're running against the wind.

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On 4/11/2021 at 11:16 PM, Mavchamp said:


Cleveland- Only 41 from the 5A Div II cutoff.  
 

 

Cleveland was barely over the 5-A D1 line, but the population continues to grow. The population for Cleveland is growing due to the expansion of the HWY 99 toll road. 

The growth rate from 2010 to 2020 was 10%, the town is close to 9,000 in pop and if the growth continues with only one High School they aren't dropping down anytime soon.

 

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17 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

I could be wrong.... but how the TEA counts Enrollment is different than how the UIL calculates the ADM. 

Obviously those numbers SHoULD be ballpark-close.... but not necessarily the same.  

they do. just trying to give an idea on where the school enrollments are at this time.  But you right, it should be pretty close.

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17 hours ago, ANTI said:

Tyler High seems to be an up and down trend...with slight decline (2019 and 2020 lower than 2017 and 2018)

2020 - 2073

2019 - 2110

2018 - 2097

2017 - 2154

I didn't go beyond 2017 because I believe that was around the time that TISD stopped counting alternative enrollment toward JT/Lee. My guess is it goes back up in the fall...5A DI easy. 

 

I think re-zoning and the opening up of RISE and Early College has some effect on the numbers.  

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1 hour ago, JTFAN99 said:

they do. just trying to give an idea on where the school enrollments are at this time.  But you right, it should be pretty close.

Yep.

TEA counts every head. UIL creates a formula.

Example, TEA site has Longview at almost 2300 in october. The UIL number for that would probably be in the mid 2100s.

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15 hours ago, ANTI said:

Just my opinion...

I personally dont think they're too much worried about presplitting the other sports because honestly, enrollment has a far smaller effect on the other sports compared to what it may have on football.

Whether a school has 3500 or 2000 students, they'll both have the same 13 kids suited on varsity basketball.

There really wasnt a huge gap in talent when Tatum and Longview played, same bench depth.

 Oh it makes a HUGE difference...Lancaster had 5 DI recruits starting and 3 more DI recruits SITTING on the bench when MP played them in the Regionals this year.  Whole lot easier to find 8 DI players out of 3500 students(1400-1700 males) then out of 2000 students (800-1000 males), IMO. 

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59 minutes ago, TigerNahum17 said:

 Oh it makes a HUGE difference...Lancaster had 5 DI recruits starting and 3 more DI recruits SITTING on the bench when MP played them in the Regionals this year.  Whole lot easier to find 8 DI players out of 3500 students(1400-1700 males) then out of 2000 students (800-1000 males), IMO. 

Many years, the best basketball team in this state is Jack Yates.

Jack Yates aint anywhere near 5A or 6A.

This year, Tatum would've beaten every big school in ETX in basketball outside of MP, LV and SS. Legacy was good in basketball but I think Tatum was better or at the very least, would've pushed em.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, ANTI said:

Many years, the best basketball team in this state is Jack Yates.

Jack Yates aint anywhere near 5A or 6A.

This year, Tatum would've beaten every big school in ETX in basketball outside of MP, LV and SS. Legacy was good in basketball but I think Tatum was better or at the very least, would've pushed em.

 

 

Legacy beat Longview. So I know they are better than them.

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2 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

I think re-zoning and the opening up of RISE and Early College has some effect on the numbers.  

It has alot of effect on both high school numbers. 

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42 minutes ago, VonG said:

Legacy beat Longview. So I know they are better than them.

Legacy required a crazy 4th quarter comeback in a game against a Longview team still without some of it's best players, who were playing football at the time. (though I still think they beat Tatum)

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48 minutes ago, VonG said:

Legacy beat Longview. So I know they are better than them.

Legacy beat Longview by 3 at a time when Jalen Hale was still out running routes for the football team.

LV's basketball team was night and day different when the football boys came over.

I like Tatum a little more than Legacy but either way, probably wouldnt have been a lopsided win for either team.

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2 hours ago, ANTI said:

Legacy beat Longview by 3 at a time when Jalen Hale was still out running routes for the football team.

LV's basketball team was night and day different when the football boys came over.

They still lost.

So basically what you are saying is, Longview is only good when they have a couple of football players on the basketball team. Without them they are a sub par team. Gotcha. 

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28 minutes ago, VonG said:

Without them they are sub par team. Gotcha. 

Yes. That's exactly what we're saying.

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28 minutes ago, VonG said:

They still lost.

So basically what you are saying is, Longview is only good when they have a couple of football players on the basketball team. Without them they are sub par team. Gotcha. 

I mean yea, the best players also play football. Just how it is, dudes love football in LV.

Kybo, Tyree, Willie, Markevion Haynes etc all were football players.

Lastly, you must not know much about Jalen Hale but he aint just some player. He gets comparisons to Bobby Taylor for a reason. I'll say it like this, he's ranked the best WR in the state for the 2023 class with nearly 30 offers already. He may be even better on the basketball court...he's Longview's best basketball player and his presents alone elevated everything.

Pre-football players basketball results:

Texas High beat Longview 60-46

Mt Pleasant beat Longview 63-50

But when the football players arrived...

Longview beat Texas High 70-59

Mt Pleasant beat Longview 50-49 (in a game that we went 30% at the FT line)

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4 hours ago, TigerNahum17 said:

 Oh it makes a HUGE difference...Lancaster had 5 DI recruits starting and 3 more DI recruits SITTING on the bench when MP played them in the Regionals this year.  Whole lot easier to find 8 DI players out of 3500 students(1400-1700 males) then out of 2000 students (800-1000 males), IMO. 

Well I wouldn't compare the DFW area with East Texas in basketball...Lets just say there are a ton of transfers into these basketball powerhouses.   But with that said, the SW Dallas County schools (Lancaster, DeSoto, Cedar Hill, Duncanville) are loaded with talent 

But generally speaking, the enrollment gap doesn't matter as much outside of football, thats why I think the split is only really needed for football.

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2 hours ago, VonG said:

They still lost.

So basically what you are saying is, Longview is only good when they have a couple of football players on the basketball team. Without them they are a sub par team. Gotcha. 

It was football season when both Tyler schools played Longview. I'm assuming all three schools had guys in Football at that time.

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3 hours ago, VonG said:

It has alot of effect on both high school numbers. 

yep, but I have a feeling Legacy will make up their numbers faster than Tyler High. 

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