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Meanwhile PT is on a slow decline.  I live in Longview. No kids.  But if I did... it would be a no-brainer for me where I’d send them.  While LiSD has plenty of its own issues.... the opport

I haven't lived in Longview since damn near when I graduated HS but man....everytime I come back home... never fails to see something new built. Neighborhoods, businesses, roads...etc. Part of th

Longview is safe as long as they stay below Highland Park lol.

On 4/16/2021 at 12:54 PM, bordertown said:

In my opinion, better for the kids. More can participate in UIL activities and learn teamwork skills. Personally feel 1750 to 2500 is ideal size to allow UIL participation and academic/vocational offerings.

I agree with this 100%

Imagine how fewer kids would be participating in sports if they only had 2-3 high schools Vs. what they have now.

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On 4/12/2021 at 12:29 PM, Mavchamp said:

Meanwhile PT is on a slow decline. 

I live in Longview. No kids.  But if I did... it would be a no-brainer for me where I’d send them. 

While LiSD has plenty of its own issues.... the opportunity to succeed is plentiful for an LHS student.  Just a matter of them choosing that path Vs the wrong one.   Unfortunately the ones that make the bad choice are the ones the community notices.  The excelling students don’t sell newspapers. 

It would be a punch in the gut to see my child graduate a Lobo ūüėā. But at least I‚Äôd know they were prepared to succeed at the next level of education.¬†

Wasnt long after you made this post that this came out. Here's the biggest reason PT is slightly declining.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ketk.com/news/education/longview-high-school-ranks-as-one-of-the-top-five-best-schools-in-east-texas/amp/

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2 hours ago, ANTI said:

Wasnt long after you made this post that this came out. Here's the biggest reason PT is slightly declining.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ketk.com/news/education/longview-high-school-ranks-as-one-of-the-top-five-best-schools-in-east-texas/amp/

Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on this topic...  a LOT of thoughts. But I'm just gonna keep my trap shut.  ;)

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On 4/12/2021 at 4:28 PM, Mavchamp said:

Doesn’t seem like PT really invests in their schools. And it matters. 

Don’t believe it?  Marshall had a slow drop in enrollment for 15 consecutive years. 

They replaced every elementary school and built a new JH... now the HS is in the middle of a nearly $50 million (and counting) renovation.... 

Enrollment  has increased every single year since the schools opened in 2018.   Small increases (40-60ish)... but that’s huge after a decade and a half of decreases. 

PT needs to open the wallet. But given how hard it was to replace a nearly condemned stadium... doesn’t seem likely. 

MP has replaced all their elementary schools in the past 15 years, renovated their middle school and is renovating and adding on to their High School currently. Stadium is getting new turf and track after graduation, baseball and softball fields are changing over to turf this summer. many things happening at MP. However, look for the numbers at MP to decline over the next 3 years. Harts Bluff, an elementary/Junior High school for years past, just had their first freshmen class this year and will continue to add a class until they are a full Senior High school, 1st graduating class expected spring 2024. The school lies directly outside the northern city limits and will probably take a considerable amount of the rural students. With Harts Bluff, their will be 3 High Schools vying for the students of Titus County. (of course this is my opinion)

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On 5/1/2021 at 1:52 PM, ANTI said:

Wasnt long after you made this post that this came out. Here's the biggest reason PT is slightly declining.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ketk.com/news/education/longview-high-school-ranks-as-one-of-the-top-five-best-schools-in-east-texas/amp/

Maybe I am wrong, but should it really be a big thing that the biggest schools in the area are the best? I mean you have more money and resources, you should be better.

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35 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

Maybe I am wrong, but should it really be a big thing that the biggest schools in the area are the best? I mean you have more money and resources, you should be better.

Valid point, but the subtext here is the prevailing narrative that Longview schools are inferior due wholly to being minority-majority. Reports like these illustrate the falsity of such a claim. 

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2 hours ago, TigerNahum17 said:

MP has replaced all their elementary schools in the past 15 years, renovated their middle school and is renovating and adding on to their High School currently. Stadium is getting new turf and track after graduation, baseball and softball fields are changing over to turf this summer. many things happening at MP. However, look for the numbers at MP to decline over the next 3 years. Harts Bluff, an elementary/Junior High school for years past, just had their first freshmen class this year and will continue to add a class until they are a full Senior High school, 1st graduating class expected spring 2024. The school lies directly outside the northern city limits and will probably take a considerable amount of the rural students. With Harts Bluff, their will be 3 High Schools vying for the students of Titus County. (of course this is my opinion)

I look at the numbers the other day....and MP won't be the only school declining.  To be honest, the only place in East Texas with any significant growth in the past 15 yrs or so is Tyler. South Tyler to be exact. But even with South Tyler growing so much, Lee population hasn't grown at the same rate, because the private and charter schools opening in Tyler area.  Lee will likely be the only main stay in 6a for the next couple of realignment cycles.  I can see some of the 5a Div.2 schools dropping to 4a soon.  I think everybody else will either hold at what they have, or slightly decline over the next 10-15 yrs.

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It‚Äôs all about jobs. East Texas industry has changed so much over the last 20 years. People have to move where they can get a payable wage. I have watched Jacksonville‚Äôs economy / jobs decline for 30 years. Yes, we have our moments of an upturn‚ÄĒ like right now‚ÄĒ but we are still low socioeconomic and I think that‚Äôs true across East Texas. I‚Äôve already said on here JAX should be one of those schools that drop to 4A D1.¬†

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12 hours ago, Matt said:

It‚Äôs all about jobs. East Texas industry has changed so much over the last 20 years. People have to move where they can get a payable wage. I have watched Jacksonville‚Äôs economy / jobs decline for 30 years. Yes, we have our moments of an upturn‚ÄĒ like right now‚ÄĒ but we are still low socioeconomic and I think that‚Äôs true across East Texas. I‚Äôve already said on here JAX should be one of those schools that drop to 4A D1.¬†

Its the truth. everybody moving to the big metro area.  I just looked at recent Census data and TEA enrollment data.  The Tyler (South Tyler)/Bullard/Whitehouse area is really the only place with significant growth in the past 10-15 yrs.  I think Tyler had an increase of a little over 10,000.   Other, places like Lindale and the Mabank area (Cedar Creek Reservoir area) have had some growth. 

Everywhere else, the population is either about the same or declining. I was a little shocked, because you see places like Hallsville and sections of Longview growing, but the overall population didn't change a ton.  They will likely hold or have some minor growth in their schools, but most other places are going to start a slow decline over the next 20 yrs unless people start coming back to rural areas.    People want to live in the bigger cities or close by. With so many people getting degrees now, these rural areas just don't pay what the metro areas pay.  

JAX probably SS, etc will follow like Kilgore and drop.    Which would be good thing for these programs. To be honest, I really don't see much growth for Tyler High either. 

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18 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

I look at the numbers the other day....and MP won't be the only school declining.  To be honest, the only place in East Texas with any significant growth in the past 15 yrs or so is Tyler. South Tyler to be exact. But even with South Tyler growing so much, Lee population hasn't grown at the same rate, because the private and charter schools opening in Tyler area.  Lee will likely be the only main stay in 6a for the next couple of realignment cycles.  I can see some of the 5a Div.2 schools dropping to 4a soon.  I think everybody else will either hold at what they have, or slightly decline over the next 10-15 yrs.

From 2010-2019, Longview didn't see the growth that it saw the previous decade (1.7% growth rate compared to 9.7%). But what you did see was infastructure laid for future growth.

New roads, housing, businesses...jobs too.  Major distribution centers being built in the city....they opened that massive DG distribution center in 2019-2020 and an 140 million dollar GAP distribution center is on its way too that'll open in 2022. So, monitoring LV's future growth will be interesting. I believe the growth rate will actually go up for Longview the next 10-20 years by a pretty good amount. I dont think it'll reach what South Tyler is doing....but Longview is more on a explosion path than it is declining path. Forbes had a story back in 2014 about Longview eventually becoming one of the fastest growing small cities in America, 6th fastest to be exact.

And there was also a pretty good article in LNJ back in 2020 about future growth in LV:  https://www.news-journal.com/building-for-the-future-its-swarming-out-there/article_3e9f49ae-8cb2-11e9-811c-bf2a9a5bd653.html#:~:text=Using future demographic and road,increase at least 34 percent.

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8 minutes ago, ANTI said:

From 2010-2019, Longview didn't see the growth that it saw the previous decade (1.7% growth rate compared to 9.7%). But what you did see was infastructure laid for future growth.

New roads, housing, businesses...jobs too.  Major distribution centers being built in the city....they opened that massive DG distribution center in 2019-2020 and an 140 million dollar GAP distribution center is on its way too that'll open in 2022. So, monitoring LV's future growth will be interesting. I believe the growth rate will actually go up for Longview the next 10-20 years by a pretty good amount. I dont think it'll reach what South Tyler is doing....but Longview is more on a explosion path than it is declining path. Forbes had a story back in 2014 about Longview eventually becoming one of the fastest growing small cities in America, 6th fastest to be exact.

And there was also a pretty good article in LNJ back in 2020 about future growth in LV:  https://www.news-journal.com/building-for-the-future-its-swarming-out-there/article_3e9f49ae-8cb2-11e9-811c-bf2a9a5bd653.html#:~:text=Using future demographic and road,increase at least 34 percent.

I don't have anything to add other than the fact that you can't even buy a home in Longview right now, a nice one anyway. 

As soon as a desirable property hits the market it has cash offers the same day. Most of them well above asking price. 

Oh sure, it's a bubble, but it's also indicative of the fact that people are leaving other places and coming here. 

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18 minutes ago, ANTI said:

From 2010-2019, Longview didn't see the growth that it saw the previous decade (1.7% growth rate compared to 9.7%). But what you did see was infastructure laid for future growth.

New roads, housing, businesses...jobs too.  Major distribution centers being built in the city....they opened that massive DG distribution center in 2019-2020 and an 140 million dollar GAP distribution center is on its way too that'll open in 2022. So, monitoring LV's future growth will be interesting. I believe the growth rate will actually go up for Longview the next 10-20 years by a pretty good amount. I dont think it'll reach what South Tyler is doing....but Longview is more on a explosion path than it is declining path. Forbes had a story back in 2014 about Longview eventually becoming one of the fastest growing small cities in America, 6th fastest to be exact.

And there was also a pretty good article in LNJ back in 2020 about future growth in LV:  https://www.news-journal.com/building-for-the-future-its-swarming-out-there/article_3e9f49ae-8cb2-11e9-811c-bf2a9a5bd653.html#:~:text=Using future demographic and road,increase at least 34 percent.

The trend is that most people are moving to mid size cities (Tyler/Longview/Bryan/Midland/etc...) or to the metro areas and their suburbs.  So I expect schools in the Tyler and Longview areas at the very least to stay either constant or have some growth with the amount of students at their schools. 

I go through Texarkana alot, and I thought there was some growth there, but their population hasn't changed much and neither has Lufkin (which was also a shock)

With the growth on northern side of Longview, Longview high numbers will remain, but who knows what happens with Pine Tree.   The thing that could affect Longview is if charters start coming.  You take away Cumberland, Legacy is probably back at 2600 students or more and without Piney Woods, Lufkin is a 6a school.  Due to south Tyler growth, Legacy right now is the only school in East Texas that can probably withstand a charter and will likely be the only school in 6a continuously for the next 10 yrs. 

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31 minutes ago, LOL said:

I don't have anything to add other than the fact that you can't even buy a home in Longview right now, a nice one anyway. 

As soon as a desirable property hits the market it has cash offers the same day. Most of them well above asking price. 

Oh sure, it's a bubble, but it's also indicative of the fact that people are leaving other places and coming here. 

Yep, btw I plan on being a LV resident within the next 5-10 years.

Now, which schools will benefit from said growth?

Longview, Hallsville, SH and PT in that order.

Majority of the 'boom' will happen in North and East Longview. SH will see a piece of the benefit but mainly Longview and Hallsville will see it. I dont think PT will see much, if any, benefit enrollment growth wise.

 

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36 minutes ago, LOL said:

I don't have anything to add other than the fact that you can't even buy a home in Longview right now, a nice one anyway. 

As soon as a desirable property hits the market it has cash offers the same day. Most of them well above asking price. 

Oh sure, it's a bubble, but it's also indicative of the fact that people are leaving other places and coming here. 

Well, interest rates are low now, so its a buyer and seller market.  But, many people are leaving the country and coming to the "city" too.  People from smaller east Texas towns are coming to Tyler and Tyler folks are going to Dallas...lol 

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41 minutes ago, LOL said:

I don't have anything to add other than the fact that you can't even buy a home in Longview right now, a nice one anyway. 

As soon as a desirable property hits the market it has cash offers the same day. Most of them well above asking price. 

Oh sure, it's a bubble, but it's also indicative of the fact that people are leaving other places and coming here. 

I had a house on the market for literally 11 minutes in Longview about a year ago.

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4 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

The trend is that most people are moving to mid size cities (Tyler/Longview/Bryan/Midland/etc...) or to the metro areas and their suburbs.  So I expect schools in the Tyler and Longview areas at the very least to stay either constant or have some growth with the amount of students at their schools. 

I go through Texarkana alot, and I thought there was some growth there, but their population hasn't changed much and neither has Lufkin (which was also a shock)

With the growth on northern side of Longview, Longview high numbers will remain, but who knows what happens with Pine Tree.   The thing that could affect Longview is if charters start coming.  You take away Cumberland, Legacy is probably back at 2600 students or more and without Piney Woods, Lufkin is a 6a school.  Due to south Tyler growth, Legacy right now is the only school in East Texas that can probably withstand a charter and will likely be the only school in 6a continuously for the next 10 yrs. 

Well, you already have several privates/charters in Longview but your right, with pop growth comes more of them.

@LOL could tell you more about it but Longview ISD in itself has gone the charter route. I dont know the ins and outs of it but one of the results of it was supposed to be a climb in enrollment.

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3 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

I had a house on the market for literally 11 minutes in Longview about a year ago.

Lol. That's hilarious.

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9 minutes ago, ANTI said:

Yep, btw I plan on being a LV resident within the next 5-10 years.

Now, which schools will benefit from said growth?

Longview, Hallsville, SH and PT in that order.

Majority of the 'boom' will happen in North and East Longview. SH will see a piece of the benefit but mainly Longview and Hallsville will see it. I dont think PT will see much, if any, benefit enrollment growth wise.

 

Longview High and Legacy have the benefit of being near the major retail outlet in those cities...the Mall.  All the commercial and residentual growth usually happens in those areas.   I'm sure that has affected Pine Tree and Tyler High, although other things could be attributed to Tyler High. 

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4 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

I had a house on the market for literally 11 minutes in Longview about a year ago.

I don't doubt that one bit.

A couple months back I got an email alert from Zillow. There was already a firm offer before I could get my agent on the phone. 

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3 minutes ago, LOL said:

Yeah, almost the opposite. The kind of folks who flocked to PT back in the day are continuing westward into Spring Hill. It doesn't help that the school district isn't really engaging the local corporate culture the way LISD has been doing for the last several years. It seems like their game plan is to position themselves as an off-brand Hallsville or something. I dunno. 

Hallsville will (always) continue to get a lot of suburban flight, but their certain approach to enrollment will keep them a middling local player. Spring Hill will also see spillover benefit from the George Richey beltway, but will be no better than HISD.

LISD will continue to be a public school straw that helps stirs the economic development drink in the 'View. 

Hallsville has the benefit of getting Marshall and Longview folks.

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1 minute ago, LOL said:

I don't doubt that one bit.

A couple months back I got an email alert from Zillow. There was already a firm offer before I could get my agent on the phone. 

Goodness. 

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These are all great statistics everyone that each of you put out here. People wonder why East Texas has a difficult time competing at the 5A and 6A level in football and basketball. Well, one school in 6A now. Sure, there will be a few teams every now and then that will compete in those sports and get to regionals, but getting to the semi finals or the finals .... is just not going to be in the cards consistent as long as the population distribution is like it is. Look at West Texas. East Texas, at least at the upper levels, seeing the same thing. 4A and below isn’t an issue. 

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5 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

Longview High and Legacy have the benefit of being near the major retail outlet in those cities...the Mall.  All the commercial and residentual growth usually happens in those areas.   I'm sure that has affected Pine Tree and Tyler High, although other things could be attributed to Tyler High. 

IMO, TISD doesnt zone to accomodate growth like you see many other districts around the state. Seems they have an agenda. No reason why TH's zone shouldnt extend to Earl Campbell.

If they did, Tyler High zoning area would have 6A numbers. But then again, as you know, even if TISD did expand TH's zone...no guarantee that those parents dont send them to a private/charter instead.

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45 minutes ago, ANTI said:

IMO, TISD doesnt zone to accomodate growth like you see many other districts around the state. Seems they have an agenda. No reason why TH's zone shouldnt extend to Earl Campbell.

If they did, Tyler High zoning area would have 6A numbers. But then again, as you know, even if TISD did expand TH's zone...no guarantee that those parents dont send them to a private/charter instead.

They absolutely should extend to Earl Campbell parkway.  Those parents would send their kids to Tyler High.  BUT....then Legacy would lose alot of their athletes.  For whatever reasons...TISD has zoned in a way for Lee/Legacy to have a much higher population than Cujo High. 

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