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Time For This?


Destry

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3 hours ago, Destry said:

So you agree then that it is ok for some schools to get beat by 85 points, but not other schools(6 man)?

You might as well be comparing 11-man football to basketball. There’s that much difference in the game. We don’t need a mercy rule in football. 

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4 hours ago, Destry said:

As we see more and more lopsided scores is it time for a 60 point mercy rule in 11 man football? Also time to go back to 3 from each district in the playoffs?

No, the backups would never get to play..  6-man has it all wrong.  The mercy rule is like giving every team a participation ribbon.  I am also fine with 4 playoff teams.  Sometimes are 4 good teams in a district - 4th better than winner of other districts.  Having 4 there is less of a chance a good team gets left out.

 

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Thank y’all for your input, just wondering what the ideas are. Probably just as many for rule as is against it. Coach in Ingleside California went for 2 point conversion—- he was up 104-0 at the time———- maybe 5 th team was playing at that time. I always cling to the thought that what goes around , comes around.

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Guest Tiger03lb

Most of the time, coaches agree to a running clock when it gets to a certain point in the game or points too. Think it falls down to the coaches on what they decide before the game, each coach knows what each team has and can do but they can't make a kid not want to play/score if they don't get any playing time. That's what is taught/coached to them is to compete, especially if the school has a good program. Theirs been a few on here that have complained about high scores but I guarantee if their school was in that position they would be defending their school and coach too. A lot people don't go and look at the tape if it's available to see why that score is so high as well, they just go ahead and start bashing. Just my two cents. 

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23 minutes ago, Destry said:

Thank y’all for your input, just wondering what the ideas are. Probably just as many for rule as is against it. Coach in Ingleside California went for 2 point conversion—- he was up 104-0 at the time———- maybe 5 th team was playing at that time. I always cling to the thought that what goes around , comes around.

Using this thread as a very unscientific survey, it appears that there are currently 8 against the idea and 1 (assuming you) for it, so your math is somewhat skewed. I know, I know, there are probably some people out there that aren’t on SDC, but their opinion really doesn’t matter. The outcry will come from those same people, and again, their opinion doesn’t matter. Texas high school football doesn’t need to become suburban youth league soccer. The coaches do a good job of controlling the score. Leave it alone. 

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1 hour ago, Destry said:

Thank y’all for your input, just wondering what the ideas are. Probably just as many for rule as is against it. Coach in Ingleside California went for 2 point conversion—- he was up 104-0 at the time———- maybe 5 th team was playing at that time. I always cling to the thought that what goes around , comes around.

This is the exception; not the rule.  This kind of thing is extremely rare, and in my opinion, this was "running it up".  The starting quarterback - a UCLA commit - threw for 13 touchdown passes in this game.  This alone is 78 points, and adding PATs, this accounts for more than 90 of those 106 points, so it wasnt "5th stringers".  This is unnecessary, rare, and not even among texas games.  Like I said before, you have to go back 10 years, through 60,000 texas high school football games to find 18 examples of a team winning by 85 or more points.  You are suggesting we need a solution for a problem that doesnt exist 

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13 hours ago, Destry said:

As we see more and more lopsided scores is it time for a 60 point mercy rule in 11 man football? Also time to go back to 3 from each district in the playoffs?

1) No.

2) Never going to happen with the $ the UIL makes from 4 teams.

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1 hour ago, trueblue82 said:

Using this thread as a very unscientific survey, it appears that there are currently 8 against the idea and 1 (assuming you) for it, so your math is somewhat skewed. I know, I know, there are probably some people out there that aren’t on SDC, but their opinion really doesn’t matter. The outcry will come from those same people, and again, their opinion doesn’t matter. Texas high school football doesn’t need to become suburban youth league soccer. The coaches do a good job of controlling the score. Leave it alone. 

Well said. Coaches who don't do a good job controlling the score are out there ... but there are few ... and their reputation follows them and often so does karma ... unfortunately, there have been a few coaches out there who would sacrifice any mother's son for another win or another score ... that sounds harsh, but in my career I have seen them ... very few, thankfully, but there have been some climbers that are in it only for the scoreboard.

Running the clock has virtually always been an option - but I have encountered some coaches that got fired up and insulted when the "ahead" coach asked (I know of one such case this year) ...

Here's a question - for experience's sake - as a coach faced with the situation, should the coach that's way ahead suggest it to the coach that's way behind - or should the coach that's way behind suggest it to the coach that's way ahead?

And let four play ... it's an experience that kids and communities usually don't forget ... 

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No to the mercy rule.

As has been discussed here, it's really not as big a problem as the news would like you to believe.  It is fairly rare.

This comes down to coaching and society.  I am all for putting the foot on the gas for the entirety of the first half.  Once it is known the game is in hand, get kids out there to get some experience. Sometimes the other team just can't stop your kids, even the backups.  That happens.

Now, I do have a problem with the scenario mentioned above.  If a kid throws 13 touchdowns, somebody from the other team better have 10.  But that comes back to what is allowed by the community and the school.  You want your kids to play hard, even if they are backups, but you as a coach can still take some air out of the ball and limit the scoring.  

BUT, in my opinion, that is a community issue, not something the state or UIL need to get involved in.  We have to police ourselves.

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14 hours ago, Pax said:

There are a few things wrong with this for me.

First, you aren't comparing the same thing.  Setting aside whether or not one agrees with the mercy rule in 6-man, it is a higher scoring game inherently.  Also, generally speaking, the reason schools play 6-man football is because they don't have the enrollment to play 11-man - ergo, they don't really have much in the way of playing backups and even then, if the other team just isn't very good, it doesn't stop the scoring anyway.  This is not to say that I agree with the mercy rule, but merely to point out that you are comparing two very different games from a scoring perspective.

Second, when a team wins by 85 in 11-man, it makes a few waves.  People hear about it and talk about it.  If the margin of victory is higher, it makes the news, so there is not some epidemic of 85+ point blowouts happening that needs fixing - otherwise, they would not be noteworthy when they happen.

Third, a mercy rule deprives playing time for kids on the winning side that otherwise not get to see the field.  Remember, we are talking about KIDS playing a GAME here.  Some of the more dominant teams can put up 60 points in a half - and for the most part, these teams send in the second team in the second half of these games and might get one or two more scores.  These kids would not get to play if you add a mercy rule.

Fourth, when the winning team sends in the second, third, JV call-ups after having the game in hand, a mercy rule would deprive kids on the losing side the chance to play football against a squad more on their level.  There is not much fun in playing against a team who doesn't allow you to gain a yard while scoring on you every third play.  If the mercy rule existed, that's all those kids would experience.  Let's be honest, the teams that are losing by 85 points are losing big to everyone.  If there were a mercy rule, none of them would get to play meaningful football.  Only when the backups come in do they get to experience running a play that gains actual yardage.  At that point in the game - down by 40, 50, 60, etc.  They might as well be down by 100.  The score is arbitrary at that point.  The mercy rule would only add insult to injury.  You're not good enough to finish this game, kids.  Sorry.  That's not a message I would ever want to send to kids who just want to play a game.  So, no - it is not time for a mercy rule.

EDIT :  I have gone back the last 10 years looking at the rankings for the largest margin of victories in all classifications of 11-man football.  Using 85 because that's the number you used - the number of games in ALL classifications of 11-man football for the last 10 years that had a margin of victory of 85 or more is 18.  This is a tiny number.  In 2020, there were 1,085 11-man football teams in Texas.  Generally speaking, each of those teams plays 10 games.  This would be 10,850 team games.  Since two teams play in each game, the actual number of games would be half that - so 5,425 games.  Plus there are 567 (63 per classification * 9 classifications) playoff games played each year for a total of 5,992 games per year - - times 10 years, and we get close to 60,000 11-man football games that have been played in the last decade.  Of these 60,000 or so games, in only 18 of them was the margin of victory 85 or more. 

And usually when you look into the stats if the game,8-9 different kids score and sometimes it's the only time in a season for them.and I would hazard that there weren't 20-25 kids on the winning teams roster,usually they will sub down till they are looking at the cheer leaders and wondering if one or two is big enough to play on the line 🤷‍♂️..

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Its about Money!! Now that they have introduced 4 playoff teams it isn't going back anytime soon. Schools hosting playoff games and teams making money off of attendance is passing too much money around to school districts. Most are not concerned with losing big in Bi-District. Having 4 allows for teams that struggle to start the year or suffer injuries to get in. Anytime you see a #4 seed beat a #1, it counter acts the blow out argument. 

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1 hour ago, Lions70 said:

Exactly $$ always is the correct answer.

Even though I agree this is the main reason for the 4 teams, I have done the math every year for the past few years on 4 seeds advancing and it happens more often then you would think. Between 12-17% of the time 4 seeds advance past the first round. I will figure the numbers again this weekend. I will post on this thread afterwards. 
 

The percentage is higher in the lower classifications then the larger, usually around 20% of the 4 seeds advance. I was totally against having 4 teams until I started doing the math.  Of course less then 50% of the ones that advance to the second round make it to the 3rd round and I can only remember 1 or 2 teams that made it to the 4th. 
Many times in the smaller classifications, injuries during the season can cause a #1 seed to drop to a #4 seed and when they get healthy they can be a force.

Needless to say I am good with the 4 team format but I understand that it ultimately comes down to money. 

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In the Carlisle game, Clay Baker asked for a running clock but was told by the officials the home team had to make the request. Baker played all 24 players he suited up.
L-K had eight consecutive possessions end in a three-and-out.You can’t ask reserves not to play hard when they get a chance for extended playing time. The final score was unfortunate, but it was not a case of Carlisle running it up intentionally.

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5 hours ago, Playfor77 said:

In the Carlisle game, Clay Baker asked for a running clock but was told by the officials the home team had to make the request. Baker played all 24 players he suited up.
L-K had eight consecutive possessions end in a three-and-out.You can’t ask reserves not to play hard when they get a chance for extended playing time. The final score was unfortunate, but it was not a case of Carlisle running it up intentionally.

That would put 5-6 of those suited up as been playing jv this year...love it when the youngsters get the smoke 👏

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Nobody, on the snowflake side, ever thinks about the kids on the winning team that are not the studs. They practice just as much as the staters. Show up to summer workouts. Spend same amount of time in the weight room. When a coach is able to send those kids in he can’t tell them not to score or don’t rush the QB all out. He can’t tell that RB to fall down before he breaks the plane. If you get a hundred dropped on you, starters dropping 50 and backups dropping the other 50, then that’s on you. Those backups deserve to get in there and play hard. 

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On 11/8/2021 at 11:19 AM, Playfor77 said:

In the Carlisle game, Clay Baker asked for a running clock but was told by the officials the home team had to make the request. Baker played all 24 players he suited up.
L-K had eight consecutive possessions end in a three-and-out.You can’t ask reserves not to play hard when they get a chance for extended playing time. The final score was unfortunate, but it was not a case of Carlisle running it up intentionally.

The question in this post is “what happened to LK?!?!” . Man back in the late 90’s those Tigers were hell in the old 3A. Had good battles with Daingerfield, Jefferson, and Atlanta. I know these rural towns are drying up but LK did it at a blazing speed. 

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On 11/10/2021 at 4:21 PM, BarryGoldwater said:

The question in this post is “what happened to LK?!?!” . Man back in the late 90’s those Tigers were hell in the old 3A. Had good battles with Daingerfield, Jefferson, and Atlanta. I know these rural towns are drying up but LK did it at a blazing speed. 

Jimmy's and Joe's man. A lot of their middle school athletes move to Atlanta in 6th or 7th grade. They hired a new coach that has been a winner in the past. He came in and totally remodeled the weight room. Hopefully he can get it turned around. It will be a while though. 

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