Monte1076 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/california-proposal-double-taxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnjoyLife Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I wonder what the actual cost is after subtracting insurance premiums (yours and your employers), deductibles, co-pays etc? I favor a universal, national healthcare system (like EVERY other advanced nation on the face of the earth has had for generations) but I am not sure a single state going it alone can make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, EnjoyLife said: I wonder what the actual cost is after subtracting insurance premiums (yours and your employers), deductibles, co-pays etc? I favor a universal, national healthcare system (like EVERY other advanced nation on the face of the earth has had for generations) but I am not sure a single state going it alone can make it work. Commie...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte1076 Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, EnjoyLife said: I wonder what the actual cost is after subtracting insurance premiums (yours and your employers), deductibles, co-pays etc? I favor a universal, national healthcare system (like EVERY other advanced nation on the face of the earth has had for generations) but I am not sure a single state going it alone can make it work. Why is your healthcare and the status of your health the government's business? Why is it anyone's business except for yours and your doctor's? Also, if you want a universal, "national" healthcare system, would you be in favor of the government mandating that you only eat certain things "for the greater good" and "for everone's health"? Would you be OK with the government mandating that everyone become vegetarian or vegan, because "it's good for you" or "It will lower costs", or "To prevent climate change"? Do you think that wouldn't happen? I know it hasn't happened in other countries. Doesn't mean it can't happen here. Do you trust the government enough with those decisions? You have to ask yourself that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnjoyLife Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Monte1076 said: Why is your healthcare and the status of your health the government's business? Why is it anyone's business except for yours and your doctor's? Also, if you want a universal, "national" healthcare system, would you be in favor of the government mandating that you only eat certain things "for the greater good" and "for everone's health"? Would you be OK with the government mandating that everyone become vegetarian or vegan, because "it's good for you"? Do you think that wouldn't happen? I know it hasn't happened in other countries. Doesn't mean it can't happen here. Do you trust the government enough with those decisions? You have to ask yourself that. Currently your healthcare is the business of you, your doctor...and a health insurance company that has a financial interest in denying your claim. At least I can petition my political leaders (and they want my vote) unlike the insurance co that only wants my money. It is always possible to cook up far fetched scenarios (like the govt forcing everyone to become vegans)...but that has not happened anywhere to the best of my knowledge. France, Canada, Germany, Sweden, the UK, Australia, Japan, Spain, Norway, Austria, Denmark and a host of others have universal healthcare and they cover all of their people at 40% lower cost per capita than Americans pay...and they get measurably better results. I realize that folks that are ideologically opposed do not care about any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte1076 Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 11 minutes ago, EnjoyLife said: Currently your healthcare is the business of you, your doctor...and a health insurance company that has a financial interest in denying your claim. At least I can petition my political leaders (and they want my vote) unlike the insurance co that only wants my money. It is always possible to cook up far fetched scenarios (like the govt forcing everyone to become vegans)...but that has not happened anywhere to the best of my knowledge. France, Canada, Germany, Sweden, the UK, Australia, Japan, Spain, Norway, Austria, Denmark and a host of others have universal healthcare and they cover all of their people at 40% lower cost per capita than Americans pay...and they get measurably better results. I realize that folks that are ideologically opposed do not care about any of that. There are many stories of people coming to the US for healthcare...some even from Canada. But again, how much do you trust the government to implement a system like that? How ripe for corruption and abuse is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnjoyLife Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, Monte1076 said: There are many stories of people coming to the US for healthcare...some even from Canada. But again, how much do you trust the government to implement a system like that? How ripe for corruption and abuse is it? That first part works both ways https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/08/17/14-Million-Americans-Will-Go-Abroad-Medical-Care-Year-Should-You As far as the second part goes...I dont particularly trust the govt...but I dont trust the "for profit" healthcare industry either. Healthcare should be treated as a vital public service...like public water systems...and not as just another business that exists to make as much $ as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte1076 Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, EnjoyLife said: That first part works both ways https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/08/17/14-Million-Americans-Will-Go-Abroad-Medical-Care-Year-Should-You As far as the second part goes...I dont particularly trust the govt...but I dont trust the "for profit" healthcare industry either. Healthcare should be treated as a vital public service...like public water systems...and not as just another business that exists to make as much $ as possible. Why not allow for subscription models like that one I showed on here once? Or an insurance modeled after car insurance? If I put new wiper blades on my car, or get an oil change (general maintenance), I don't file it on my insurance. If I have an accident or need something major repaired (my windshield, for instance), then I could use insurance. So in that model, if you go to the doctor for a "general health" thing (i.e. a checkup or a diagnosis) you pay cash. If you go for a broken leg or a surgery, you have insurance. So let me understand this: You want a government you don't particularly trust running a program to pay for our healthcare? Isn't that a lot like saying, "That guy over there has stolen thousands of dollars. I don't particularly trust him. I'm gonna give him $500 to hold for me, because I don't trust banks."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnjoyLife Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Monte1076 said: Why not allow for subscription models like that one I showed on here once? Or an insurance modeled after car insurance? If I put new wiper blades on my car, or get an oil change (general maintenance), I don't file it on my insurance. If I have an accident or need something major repaired (my windshield, for instance), then I could use insurance. So in that model, if you go to the doctor for a "general health" thing (i.e. a checkup or a diagnosis) you pay cash. If you go for a broken leg or a surgery, you have insurance. So let me understand this: You want a government you don't particularly trust running a program to pay for our healthcare? That would be ok...but I doubt it would do enough to really change the dynamics of our healthcare system. On top of that many people can not afford that "out of pocket" $100 office visit and $300 for labs. We would still have the problem that we have now...that millions can not afford to access the healthcare they need. As far as the other thing goes..."for profit" healthcare is no more trustworthy than the govt. Im not talking about the wonderful doctors, nurses, etc we have...I am talking about corporate healthcare that see's patients as nothing more than customers and a way to enrich investors and executives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Rab Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Quote Under the bill, the top marginal rate on wage income would soar to 18.05% – well above the median top marginal rate of 5.3% and the state's existing rate of 12.3%. There would be an 18-bracket system, with higher taxes kicking in for individuals earning more than $149,509.The highest rate would apply to those who earn more than $2,484,121.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Rab Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 12.3% already... good God Almighty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte1076 Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, EnjoyLife said: .I am talking about corporate healthcare that see's patients as nothing more than customers and a way to enrich investors and executives. So then you're just shifting from one entity you don't trust (the "healthcare industry") to another (the government). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Rab Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnjoyLife Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, Monte1076 said: So then you're just shifting from one entity you don't trust (the "healthcare industry") to another (the government). I dont entirely trust anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Rab Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, Monte1076 said: So then you're just shifting from one entity you don't trust (the "healthcare industry") to another (the government). Those are the 2 entities in the US you shouldn't trust at all. I don't care which side you are on. They are the fiddle, you are the strings... don't be the strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte1076 Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 35 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said: That's part of the point I'm making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osup116 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Why is the thread not talking the doubling of California Taxes to pay for all of this. People are leaving California in droves to get away from bad leadership. The more they give away to get votes - The higher the taxes become. Now they are wanting to double the taxes to pay for medical of people that do not even belong to this country. Honestly think about it. Does anyone think it is a good idea to double the taxes in United States to pay for the medical expenses of the people of Ireland. In a nutshell that is what California is doing in their state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte1076 Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 22 minutes ago, osup116 said: Why is the thread not talking the doubling of California Taxes to pay for all of this. People are leaving California in droves to get away from bad leadership. The more they give away to get votes - The higher the taxes become. Now they are wanting to double the taxes to pay for medical of people that do not even belong to this country. Honestly think about it. Does anyone think it is a good idea to double the taxes in United States to pay for the medical expenses of the people of Ireland. In a nutshell that is what California is doing in their state It's actually compounded by the people who are leaving. That leaves fewer people to tax, and therefore higher taxes on an individual basis. So if they double taxes, there will be more people leaving the state who can afford to do so, and fewer people being taxed. Of course there will be rich people there who will stay, but I think something like this will lead to more outflow by those who can. Some states (to my understanding), to either prevent or reduce an exodus from those states, are actually implementing a TAX to leave the state. In other words, if you want to move OUT of their state, you have to pay a TAX to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashyhound Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 c'mon San Andreas!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnjoyLife Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, osup116 said: Why is the thread not talking the doubling of California Taxes to pay for all of this. It would be nice if they had included the cost after eliminating health insurance premiums for both individuals/families and employers and deductibles and co-pays rather than just talking about taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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