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Shortage of Coaches


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14 hours ago, DB2point0 said:

Got a friend that coaches in Georgia.  I’m told the school hires an educator/head coach for each sport, then that coach hires some from the street to fill their staff.  They typically have day jobs and get part time pay as coaches.  That’s a thought.  Never understood why you had to be an educator to be a coach.  

How many teacher positions do you think are filled because people want to coach? You would immediately lose thousands of teachers in a profession that is already short. Your athletes would be put in a PE class instead of an athletics class like other states. And do you think the quality of coaching would improve with part time workers as opposed to professionals?  

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Just now, Slickarick said:

That they have to abide buy all rules and laws by the state. If not an employee of the district they don't have to. Much easier to recruit if you have a job that takes you around. Have to be there day in and day out of get subtracted pay. There's several layers of accountability that ties you to coaching and teaching.  

I’m offering up solutions to a “shortage”.  Contract employees can sign binding contracts with moral clauses in them and the contract can state what they can and can’t do as a representative of the school.  Breach contract, you’re fired.  Easy as that.  
 

to further argue your point…..  I personally know of schools that have aids hired as coaches.  They are not educators.  How does that work for educator accountability?

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1 minute ago, mrclean69 said:

How many teacher positions do you think are filled because people want to coach? You would immediately lose thousands of teachers in a profession that is already short. Your athletes would be put in a PE class instead of an athletics class like other states. And do you think the quality of coaching would improve with part time workers as opposed to professionals?  

In small schools a good portion of the teaching staff is filled by coaches.  
 

having a degree in biology or Kinesiology makes you understand a sport better? 

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I was also speaking more to the coaching side of the equation.

 

my wife is a teacher.  I see the issues that are pushing folks out that are educators, not coaches, leave the profession as well. 

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1 minute ago, DB2point0 said:

In small schools a good portion of the teaching staff is filled by coaches.  
 

having a degree in biology or Kinesiology makes you understand a sport better? 

Um, exactly what I'm saying. Many people teach so that can coach. Schools fill staffs with people across the state with coaches. Take the attachment to teaching away, and you are creating another beast. 

 

I said nothing about having a degree. But many of your comments are misguided or ill-informed. Most coaches teach. A select few coaches may get a cushiony job that would still require and educator to be in like proctoring dual credit, PE or DAEP. Keep in mind those spots would still have to be filled even without it tied to coaching. Even fewer coaches have no teaching responsibilities. 

I spoke on professional vs part time coaches. A coach that is a professional connects with kids in the classroom, in the hallways, in the athletic period, at lunch, etc. A part time coach that paints during the day and shows up for practice and games doesn't meet the standard of quality set by professional coaches. This isn't AAU or pee-wee. 

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11 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

I’m just offering up an idea.

I know you meant no ill intentions, and its something that is mentioned all the time. But to coaches this is one of the issues. They put in time. They've made this their profession. They spend 8 hours a day in the class with other people's kids. Countless hours after school with other people's kids. Time on the weekend for or with other people's kids. Weeks of unpaid time over the summer for other people's kids. The ones that are sticking it out take great pride in what they do for communities and kids. And the response to a shortage of these people is "Grab your local painter that coached some pee-wee and played ball back in the day. He'll be just as good." While pay has been mentioned on this thread, respect, loyalty, and being valued has been mentioned more. The idea of being easily replaceable is why schools are having a hard time replacing coaches. 

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52 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

Painters set their own hours, as do carpenters, and other entrepreneurial jobs.  Contractors, self owned service providers, restaurant owners, etc…. Lots of people can set their own hours.   I think your statement is not accurate.  Most corporate based jobs should be what your argument was.  

My statement is 100% accurate. Business demands set the schedule for business owners and only the most isolated few are able to guarantee the necessary time for all coaching endeavors.

Most people work for someone else (including most "painters" and "carpenters") and work the schedules they are told. Very few employees tell the manager "when they will work". 

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On 5/12/2022 at 12:41 PM, Valhalla said:

The biggest problem [even outside of schools] it that it is always another person's fault.

Maybe your kid just isn't good enough to be a starter regardless of what grade they are in?

Maybe it is your kid's fault that he is failing and not the teachers?

Maybe it is your fault that your kid has behavior issues?

Have a friend with a very wise wife. Their son got into some trouble in high school. When the husband thought the school was being too hard on Jimmy, his wife reflected. Jimmy got in trouble in elementary school. In middle school Jimmy landed in the principal’s office. Now in high school, Jimmy was visiting the disciplinary principal. She asked the question. “Who was the common denominator at each of these schools?” - Jimmy.

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1 hour ago, DB2point0 said:

Accountability?  For what?  A contract employee is much easier for a school to fire than a tenured educator.  Lots of educator/coaches don’t even teach a class.  The ones that do aren’t always held accountable for poor performance in the classroom either.  

Im not one to get into an internet fight with someone who is talking out of his backside....but this friggin guy.  I'd love to see your data on this that isnt from bribart or ONE network.

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I'm a 10 year coach/teacher.  The most alarming thing I am seeing now is not young coaches and teachers getting out after 1 or 2 years.  That is fairly normal.  The trend that is by far more alarming than that is those who have been doing it 10-20 years getting out.  On top of that is the lack of those getting in we are in a real tough spot.

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1 hour ago, mrclean69 said:

Um, exactly what I'm saying. Many people teach so that can coach. Schools fill staffs with people across the state with coaches. Take the attachment to teaching away, and you are creating another beast. 

 

I said nothing about having a degree. But many of your comments are misguided or ill-informed. Most coaches teach. A select few coaches may get a cushiony job that would still require and educator to be in like proctoring dual credit, PE or DAEP. Keep in mind those spots would still have to be filled even without it tied to coaching. Even fewer coaches have no teaching responsibilities. 

I spoke on professional vs part time coaches. A coach that is a professional connects with kids in the classroom, in the hallways, in the athletic period, at lunch, etc. A part time coach that paints during the day and shows up for practice and games doesn't meet the standard of quality set by professional coaches. This isn't AAU or pee-wee. 

Only issue is the topic is “shortage of coaches” not teachers.  
 

just researched it about more….  More states are using the approach Georgia is.  I always thought if you’re getting paid for a job that is your profession.  Didn’t realize being a teacher was what made coaches professional.  The NFL may be doing it wrong I guess.  

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1 hour ago, 89Falcon said:

My statement is 100% accurate. Business demands set the schedule for business owners and only the most isolated few are able to guarantee the necessary time for all coaching endeavors.

Most people work for someone else (including most "painters" and "carpenters") and work the schedules they are told. Very few employees tell the manager "when they will work". 

100% huh?  Entrepreneurs and business owners don’t set their own schedule?  They can’t give direction to employees and leave the work site?  So no you’re 100% statement is false.  It may be a high percentage, but it’s not 100%.  
 

icant argue about telling a manager when you will work and not work.  I couldn’t do that and keep my job.  But there are lots of people that could.  

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55 minutes ago, dogs3505 said:

I'm a 10 year coach/teacher.  The most alarming thing I am seeing now is not young coaches and teachers getting out after 1 or 2 years.  That is fairly normal.  The trend that is by far more alarming than that is those who have been doing it 10-20 years getting out.  On top of that is the lack of those getting in we are in a real tough spot.

Sounds like we may need to seek an alternative at some point?

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2 hours ago, dogs3505 said:

Im not one to get into an internet fight with someone who is talking out of his backside....but this friggin guy.  I'd love to see your data on this that isnt from bribart or ONE network.

I’m looking at local 2a schools within driving distance of my house.  
 

but here’s this ….”Texas is one of the few states to require coaches to be full-time staff of the school district, which West believes is a benefit.”

 

https://www.kbtx.com/2021/12/13/coaching-crisis-young-athletic-coaches-are-leaving-industry-statewide/

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1 hour ago, mrclean69 said:

Um, exactly what I'm saying. Many people teach so that can coach. Schools fill staffs with people across the state with coaches. Take the attachment to teaching away, and you are creating another beast. 

 

I said nothing about having a degree. But many of your comments are misguided or ill-informed. Most coaches teach. A select few coaches may get a cushiony job that would still require and educator to be in like proctoring dual credit, PE or DAEP. Keep in mind those spots would still have to be filled even without it tied to coaching. Even fewer coaches have no teaching responsibilities. 

I spoke on professional vs part time coaches. A coach that is a professional connects with kids in the classroom, in the hallways, in the athletic period, at lunch, etc. A part time coach that paints during the day and shows up for practice and games doesn't meet the standard of quality set by professional coaches. This isn't AAU or pee-wee. 

Can’t be a teacher/educator without a degree.  Can’t bea coach without being an educator.  Back to shortages of coaches…..

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Goggled this. Traditionally a Professional is someone who derives their income from their specific knowledge or experience as opposed to a worker, hobbyist or amateur without formal education. This meaning is still carries today in areas such as sports.

Their are other simpler definitions  to this word but this is the one most traditionally recognized.

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5 hours ago, DB2point0 said:

100% huh?  Entrepreneurs and business owners don’t set their own schedule?  They can’t give direction to employees and leave the work site?  So no you’re 100% statement is false.  It may be a high percentage, but it’s not 100%.  
 

icant argue about telling a manager when you will work and not work.  I couldn’t do that and keep my job.  But there are lots of people that could.  

Have you ever ran a business? Business owners can do anything they want (as you say) as long as they dont mind "going out of business". They can "set their own schedule" as long as the business demands allow. When the business needs arise/change, the business will take priority and the coaching obligations/team will suffer.

As I stated, there are a "very isolated few" that have latitude to meet the demands of coaching varsity sports without regard for their professional endeavors and not nearly enough to staff all of the high school sports in Texas. 

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1 hour ago, 89Falcon said:

Have you ever ran a business? Business owners can do anything they want (as you say) as long as they dont mind "going out of business". They can "set their own schedule" as long as the business demands allow. When the business needs arise/change, the business will take priority and the coaching obligations/team will suffer.

As I stated, there are a "very isolated few" that have latitude to meet the demands of coaching varsity sports without regard for their professional endeavors and not nearly enough to staff all of the high school sports in Texas. 

What business do you run?  Or are you a coach?  

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My wife is involved in education and the administration side of it,I hear the issues they have with procurement of educators they have,it is insane to think of young adults going into the teaching profession and not feeling called to do so,weak pay and no appreciation of the profession.When a young adult can make stupid money in the oil /gas industry and at 21 years old,,be riding around in a hundred thousand dollar vehicle and have thousands of dollars in a savings account before others finish their degree....It's mostly a pay problem 👀

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1 hour ago, upullinmychain said:

My wife is involved in education and the administration side of it,I hear the issues they have with procurement of educators they have,it is insane to think of young adults going into the teaching profession and not feeling called to do so,weak pay and no appreciation of the profession.When a young adult can make stupid money in the oil /gas industry and at 21 years old,,be riding around in a hundred thousand dollar vehicle and have thousands of dollars in a savings account before others finish their degree....It's mostly a pay problem 👀

+1000

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The two main problems are 1.  You  have to be100 percent called to be a teacher in order to make it today.  There aren’t enough people called to the profession.  2. The higher ups in education take the ones who are called for granted.  

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I’d like for all teachers in every school district throughout the state to be guaranteed by The State of Texas to take home (net, after taxes) no less than $50,000 per year.

In reality, teachers need to make more than that, because it’s a HUGE responsibility teachers take on every day for their entire community not just the students and their parents.

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1 hour ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

I’d like for all teachers in every school district throughout the state to be guaranteed by The State of Texas to take home (net, after taxes) no less than $50,000 per year.

In reality, teachers need to make more than that, because it’s a HUGE responsibility teachers take on every day for their entire community not just the students and their parents.

I like the post but honestly. $50,000 is not enough in today's society. No less than $75,000 in my book. Not because of all the stuff they do and put up with. Everything just cost to much now.

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