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Duncanville at South Oak Cliff (ESPN2)


LoboFan07

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I'm not surprised, at all, that what we said went right over certain individuals head. 

Some get it, some don't I guess...lol

@LoboFan07 @MattStepp

Crazy thing is, nobody called Surratt a bad coach. In fact, I specifically said that he was a better coach than Samples and Todd.

Dumb just gonna be dumb. 🤣

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9 hours ago, ANTI said:

Facts.

And I'll preface this by saying that I think Surratt is a better coach than Samples and Todd. (Todd can still coach his you know what off though)

HOWEVER. Fit is a thing. Case in point, Jeff Dicus was a state championship winning coach at Lake Travis and built the foundation of the program into the mecca that it is today. Dicus was awful at Duncanville. And Surratt doesn't fit either of those places, also has no idea the challenges both go through as Stepp said. 

Had to quote this again. No complexity involved in the post above at all, so maybe they'll understand this time. (I even put the first paragraph in bold so they can see it clearly this time because ya know, I'm a nice guy). 

If not, there's little hope for humanity...lol

Hell, I consider Todd Dodge one of the best ever. He would not fit at SOC. He MAY fit at DV but no guarantees. 

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22 minutes ago, MattStepp said:

He has done that, but other than the one coaches kid who moved in and won a title have any of the QBs not been in his system since 7th grade??

 

Its clear there's a lot of work put in with Carthage kids early in the process to get them to where they are when they start on Friday nights..

He won a title his 2nd year at Carthage.........Does that answer your question ?

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4 minutes ago, cotton84 said:

He won a title his 2nd year at Carthage.........Does that answer your question ?

I feel like having Dwight Smith was helpful...but Si Blackshire was really good that year as well, especially considering he was in year two of the system....so thats absolutely a point to contradict my position because I did forget that Carthage got going early in Surratt's tenure....

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11 hours ago, The Real Mavfan said:

Both of these teams will have plenty of blowouts this year. But from what i see i cant say they are good teams. They are teams with alot of good players. The difference? Imagine if one of them were coached by someone like a Surratt. Nothing against those two gentlemen, they are very accomplished. Add a superior system to superior talent and good gosh!!

this is such a bad take.  Samples has built programs wherever he has been.  Duncanville is no different.  They were horrible before he got there.  Surratt would not know how to handle the situation that Samples thrives in and probably vise versa.  Todd is a disciple of Samples and has now built SOC up to be like what Samples creates.  Surratt is not a god, there are more ways to do it than just his way.

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50 minutes ago, ANTI said:

I'm not surprised, at all, that what we said went right over certain individuals head. 

Some get it, some don't I guess...lol

@LoboFan07 @MattStepp

Crazy thing is, nobody called Surratt a bad coach. In fact, I specifically said that he was a better coach than Samples and Todd.

Dumb just gonna be dumb. 🤣

I did not see that post from you.

I didn’t see you were in the thread until you came in a few minutes ago, but you were further up.

I only saw RealMavsFan going back and forth with @LoboFan07.

I do get the inner city thing and also see folks saying SS could be successful at a Duncanville or Cedar Hill, etc

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40 minutes ago, MattStepp said:

I feel like having Dwight Smith was helpful...but Si Blackshire was really good that year as well, especially considering he was in year two of the system....so thats absolutely a point to contradict my position because I did forget that Carthage got going early in Surratt's tenure....

Yeah man, it was like a light switch being turned on when Surratt and his staff got in.

Always had the talent, but never had a truly elite coach.

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41 minutes ago, dogs3505 said:

this is such a bad take.  Samples has built programs wherever he has been.  Duncanville is no different.  They were horrible before he got there.  Surratt would not know how to handle the situation that Samples thrives in and probably vise versa.  Todd is a disciple of Samples and has now built SOC up to be like what Samples creates.  Surratt is not a god, there are more ways to do it than just his way.

You’re correct, there are other ways than just the Surratt way.

The Surratt way sure has been a lot of fun since 2007!

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Wow I should have known this thread was gonna go in this direction. No one is saying that Surrat is not an exceptional coach. His record speaks for itself.  One has to understand that fit matters. One size does not fit all. Saban was a failure at the pro level but is considered the best college coach in the game today. Like stated coach Dodge is considered one of the greatest high school coaches ever but he failed at some spots. I consider coach Joseph to be a great coach but he has a certain style that no coach outside of Katy could mimic. If he leaves they have to hire within because they do things the Katy way. Surrat created a juggernaut at Carthage but his method is not plug and play. You cannot drop him off in RGV and expect him to win multiple championships. It does not work that way.

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22 minutes ago, Grainraiser said:

Wow I should have known this thread was gonna go in this direction. No one is saying that Surrat is not an exceptional coach. His record speaks for itself.  One has to understand that fit matters. One size does not fit all. Saban was a failure at the pro level but is considered the best college coach in the game today. Like stated coach Dodge is considered one of the greatest high school coaches ever but he failed at some spots. I consider coach Joseph to be a great coach but he has a certain style that no coach outside of Katy could mimic. If he leaves they have to hire within because they do things the Katy way. Surrat created a juggernaut at Carthage but his method is not plug and play. You cannot drop him off in RGV and expect him to win multiple championships. It does not work that way.

I do agree with this to an extent, but you’re also the poster who said SS couldn’t win titles at Duncanville, and that is completely silly in my opinion.

With all those athletes and a similar set up to what he has in Carthage where he can mold the program from 7th grade on and you think he wouldn’t win multiple titles like he has at Carthage?

One minute you say he can’t do what Samples does at Duncanville and couldn’t win a title there. The next minute you’re saying SS is a great coach and are mad at Carthage fans like we’re the ones on the attack.

This whole thing started with a Marshall fan saying (and I fully agree) SS could do more at Duncanville and SOC than what their coaches do with that talent, and then a Longview fan and yourself saying no Surratt can’t.

Then Carthage fans state our opinions on the matter and Carthage fans are the bad guys.

I have conceded in this thread that there are more dynamics at play with inner city DISD programs and it’d take longer to be successful there even for Surratt.

Many folks have now said SS could be very successful at Duncanville, etc.

I just don’t want Carthage fans to be vilified for sticking up for our man when it all started by others’ conversation and then the typical “No, Surratt can’t win there like he does at Carthage.” statement.

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I fully expect Carthage fans to stick up for thier coach but this thread was not an attack on Coach Surrat. It was a Carthage fan that stated his method would work anywhere. This is were the disagreement  revealed itself. No way could Surrat do with Samples did at Skyline. A school with no feeders, kids had provide their on transportation too practice and a 6A roster that was smaller than Carthage. None of this changes his coaching credentials but there challenges he would face that he has never faced before. Could he win a championship at Duncanville. I really don't know because Northshore and coach Kay are no pushovers. Duncanville's lack of execution in the fourth quarter is the reason they don't have a ring and that falls on the head coach. That same coach has had some bad luck also but it is what it is.

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2 hours ago, LoboFan07 said:

Surratt has also never opened the season playing a team such as Duncanville, with the talent that team has on that field. Throw in the 3244 student enrollment discrepancy on top of things.

Fact that SOC kept that game close at all, is amazing.

Both offenses were atrocious.  

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2 hours ago, ANTI said:

I'm not surprised, at all, that what we said went right over certain individuals head. 

Some get it, some don't I guess...lol

@LoboFan07 @MattStepp

Crazy thing is, nobody called Surratt a bad coach. In fact, I specifically said that he was a better coach than Samples and Todd.

Dumb just gonna be dumb. 🤣

As a matter of fact, it sounds like y’all are  saying that inner city players can’t be coached up very much.  That’s what it sounds like to us.  

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13 minutes ago, ANTI said:

Surratt is the first and only coach in TXHSFB history that can win anywhere. Fit doesn't matter.

Interesting.

 

Instead of dumb emojis, tell us more about this fit.  If I were a kid playing high school football, regardless of where, I’d be excited/stoked/happy to find out that my school hired an offensive genius that has won 7-8 state championships.  I’d say winning fits right in, but evidently there’s another type of fit to hear about.  Tell us about it.  Describe it.  Just saying the word doesn’t work.  

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I'll say this. I would love for Coach Surratt to coach either JT or Lee. I definitely believe he could of won a few championships at JT when they were making their runs. If Coach Holmes got them there. I do believe Surratt would have taken them to promise land. Now do I  believe they would have the same success ever year as Carthage. Nope, I do not believe they will. If he Coach JT and they won a few championships. Best believe Tisd would draw the lines as they see fit to disrupt all the success JT is having in my opinion. Can't have one having all the fun while the other is lacking any type of success. That's my opinion on what would happen. Lastly can't forget about all the other multiple schools eating at Tyler city limits table also. 

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40 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

Instead of dumb emojis, tell us more about this fit.  If I were a kid playing high school football, regardless of where, I’d be excited/stoked/happy to find out that my school hired an offensive genius that has won 7-8 state championships.  I’d say winning fits right in, but evidently there’s another type of fit to hear about.  Tell us about it.  Describe it.  Just saying the word doesn’t work.  

Did Jeff Dicus not win before being at Duncanville? Why did it not work out if winning elsewhere is end all be all?

Why did Chad Morris fail at Arkansas? Maybe the biggest offensive genius to touch TXHSFB, and the Allen stop didn't impress many. Can he not coach anymore?

I believe that Gary Joseph is the best coach in the state, but even he isn't the fit all. His style doesn't fit a Highland Park/SLC/Westlake like it would a Euless Trinity/Longview/Denton Ryan.

Want a basketball example? Quin Snyder and Tom Thibodeau would not work at Golden State. Their grit and grind style, all defense, no motion, all points come in the paint offense wouldn't fit the personnel that GS has. 

Can't put square pegs in round holes. Fit matters in sports. 

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1 hour ago, ANTI said:

Did Jeff Dicus not win before being at Duncanville? Why did it not work out if winning elsewhere is end all be all?

Why did Chad Morris fail at Arkansas? Maybe the biggest offensive genius to touch TXHSFB, and the Allen stop didn't impress many. Can he not coach anymore?

I believe that Gary Joseph is the best coach in the state, but even he isn't the fit all. His style doesn't fit a Highland Park/SLC/Westlake like it would a Euless Trinity/Longview/Denton Ryan.

Want a basketball example? Quin Snyder and Tom Thibodeau would not work at Golden State. Their grit and grind style, all defense, no motion, all points come in the paint offense wouldn't fit the personnel that GS has. 

Can't put square pegs in round holes. Fit matters in sports. 

So those two schools are just destined to have crappy offenses?  Lol

 

you can’t compare college to HS anyway, you have recruiting, coaches taking over rosters full of talent recruited for other styles of play.  
 

obviously you’ve never seen Carthage play. I’ve watched them since he arrived and have been impressed. Their offense is extremely multiple and not set in a way of certain things.  You’ll see so many personnel packages adjusted to the types of QBs he has from year to year.  And what’s equally impressive if not more, the defensive adjustments that staff can make at half to completely shut a team down.  
 

 

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1 hour ago, DB2point0 said:


 

obviously you’ve never seen Carthage play.

You're right, only you have. 

Guess Stepp hasn't either too right? 

Carthage being multiple has nothing to do with what we're talking about at all. lol

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1 hour ago, DB2point0 said:

So those two schools are just destined to have crappy offenses?  Lol

 

you can’t compare college to HS anyway, you have recruiting, coaches taking over rosters full of talent recruited for other styles of play.  
 

 

Morris tried to run a spread concept with run first personnel.

Pee wee, middle school, high school...it really doesn't matter.

That wouldn't work on any level.

Round peg, square hole.

Still a great coach, but was a bad fit for Arkansas.

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16 hours ago, ANTI said:

You're right, only you have. 

Guess Stepp hasn't either too right? 

Carthage being multiple has nothing to do with what we're talking about at all. lol

 

16 hours ago, ANTI said:

Morris tried to run a spread concept with run first personnel.

Pee wee, middle school, high school...it really doesn't matter.

That wouldn't work on any level.

Round peg, square hole.

Still a great coach, but was a bad fit for Arkansas.

My point completely went way over the top of your head.  A good coach adjusts to the personnel.  He just doesn’t dumb down what he knows.  You’re assuming surratt only knows one thing.  Which is how I know you’ve never watched Carthage.  Just because somebody writes for a football magazine/website doesn’t mean they’re an authority on football.  I personally know writers that never played a down of football in their life.  

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16 hours ago, ANTI said:

Morris tried to run a spread concept with run first personnel.

Pee wee, middle school, high school...it really doesn't matter.

That wouldn't work on any level.

Round peg, square hole.

Still a great coach, but was a bad fit for Arkansas.

Y’all already said style of play wasn’t necessarily the fit being talked about.

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