Week Ten: Longview at Tyler

[RP3LOBO86]

3 hours ago, LOL said:

For those of you checking the poll: I pick "Longview in a close one" every week. And you don't mess with a winning streak. 

I do the same LOL!!!!

[cujo2016]

1 hour ago, LoboFan07 said:

Least y'all letting us bring our train horn, unlike Lufkin who threw a fit lol.

O yea, I forgot about coming on the field before the game and after halftime, 15. Question, How many times does this train run per hour? Lol

[LOBOFAN84]

3 hours ago, LoboFan07 said:

Least y'all letting us bring our train horn, unlike Lufkin who threw a fit lol.

Brought the law into it, even.

[LoboFan07]

Beat Cujo.

[LoboFan07]

Full box score from Longview's 49-7 victory over McKinney North:

https://www.lobohistory.com/blog/2022/week9boxscore.html

[LoboFan07]

By the numbers vs McKinney North:

https://lobohistory.com/blog/2022/week9bythenumbers.html

[JTFAN99]

On 10/22/2022 at 8:33 AM, NODAYSOFFTX said:

How many more losses will it take for you to get over the coaching staff? @JTFAN99

I think you don't quite understand my position on this issue.   I have said over and over that change is needed in this program. It doesn't matter to me if its the head coach or the staff.  However, if you step back and look at it from the outside, the reason why change hasn't come sooner is because Coach Holmes record has earned him the right to get this fixed.   It may require he let some of his staff go, or maybe he decides he needs to move on. Regardless, you can't deny he has been one of the best coaches in JT history based on win/losses.

But don't get it confused, I want change in this program.  This team returned everyone but 3 to 4 starters from last yr team, and it took 10 steps back this yr.  I would have no issue at all if TISD went a different direction.  

by the way, you can't let fans decide who should be fired. Many people wanted Coach Wilson gone in the late 90s because he didn't throw the ball enough. And some LV fans wanted King gone before they won state. 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by JTFAN99

[WolverBean]

1 hour ago, JTFAN99 said:

I think you don't quite understand my position on this issue.   I have said over and over that change is needed in this program. It doesn't matter to me if its the head coach or the staff.  However, if you step back and look at it from the outside, the reason why change hasn't come sooner is because Coach Holmes record has earned him the right to get this fixed.   It may require he let some of his staff go, or maybe he decides he needs to move on. Regardless, you can't deny he has been one of the best coaches in JT history based on win/losses.

But don't get it confused, I want change in this program.  This team returned everyone but 3 to 4 starters from last yr team, and it took 10 steps back this yr.  I would have no issue at all if TISD went a different direction.  

by the way, you can't let fans decide who should be fired. Many people wanted Coach Wilson gone in the late 90s because he didn't throw the ball enough. And some LV fans wanted King gone before they won state. 

 

King has like a 85% win rate tho no losing seasons in his 19 years 

[JTFAN99]

31 minutes ago, WolverBean said:

King has like a 85% win rate tho no losing seasons in his 19 years 

uh...thats my point.  People wanted to get rid of a guy with a record like that. Which is why you can't always trust the fanbase to decide. 

[VonG]

Fan base always decides. When the money stops rolling in the administration always makes changes because the fan base has spoken with their pockets. They definitely need a change. He doesn't know how to fix it. If he did it wouldn't have gotten this bad in the 1st place. 

[JTFAN99]

1 hour ago, VonG said:

Fan base always decides. When the money stops rolling in the administration always makes changes because the fan base has spoken with their pockets. They definitely need a change. He doesn't know how to fix it. If he did it wouldn't have gotten this bad in the 1st place. 

is it the fans or the boosters along with the AD and Principal?

I don't disagree with your view on the program...but they had a bad yr in 2019 (although they made the playoffs), another bad yr in 2020, then they seem to turn things around last yr. 

Maybe he is being loyal to the staff because many of those guys have been on the staff for yrs...including the yrs with the deep playoff runs.

Although I would like to see a big change, I wouldn't be shocked at all if he his given another yr to turn things around because they have many players coming back and some talent coming up. If that happens, maybe he takes advantage of that and make some needed inside changes. 

[VonG]

9 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

is it the fans or the boosters along with the AD and Principal?

I don't disagree with your view on the program...but they had a bad yr in 2019 (although they made the playoffs), another bad yr in 2020, then they seem to turn things around last yr. 

Maybe he is being loyal to the staff because many of those guys have been on the staff for yrs...including the yrs with the deep playoff runs.

Although I would like to see a big change, I wouldn't be shocked at all if he his given another yr to turn things around because they have many players coming back and some talent coming up. If that happens, maybe he takes advantage of that and make some needed inside changes. 

If there is no money coming in from the fans to support the program. The powers that be will make changes. Reason why, the fans have spoken. 

If a company loses money year after year. No matter how many years the management made money for the company. Do you keep the same management or do you make changes? The company is trending downward. That's the same way I see this program. # time for change. Nothing personal. 

[ANTI]

2 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

uh...thats my point.  People wanted to get rid of a guy with a record like that. Which is why you can't always trust the fanbase to decide. 

A couple of people signing a petition doesn't speak for the majority lol

I am willing to bet that majority of CUJO fans are ready to see a change of scenery.

[LoboFan07]

Beat Cujo.

[Grainraiser]

You can't hold on to a coach due to his pass success. How many times have you seen a program reach rock bottom and then rise from the ashes coached by the same guy. For whatever reason he has maxed out the program and they are what they are. Time for Tyler High to look towards the future and move on. It's no different than being in a bad marriage and praying it is going to get better. Coach Holmes has did great things for Tyler High but it is time for both parties to go their separate ways. 

[JohnnyFootball]

9 hours ago, ANTI said:

A couple of people signing a petition doesn't speak for the majority lol

I am willing to bet that majority of CUJO fans are ready to see a change of scenery.

Rumblings had been there for a while, but it seemed like a vocal minority. 

They're right- actions speak louder than words. Longview has always packed the stadium under King. If JT is getting back to where there are only a handful of fans, they need change in the worst way. 

[LoboFan07]

12 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Rumblings had been there for a while, but it seemed like a vocal minority.

The biggest vocal one of them all during that whole ordeal was a former player who didn't even live in Longview anymore.

No doubt, King received a lot of harsh criticism prior to '18. Some warranted, some not. But I just don't see the situations between Longview and Tyler anything remotely alike.

King's worst season since taking over is an 8-3 finish, where we lost in bi-district down in Beaumont thanks to a fumble right outside the end zone. We definitely should've won that one. But still, we were co-district champs and had to travel 3+ hours on the road on a Friday night.

He's never once come close to missing the playoffs. Closest was probably 2010, after having just lost to North Mesquite and we were down 17-14 to Lee heading into the 4th quarter. We ended up winning district, then running to the Semis.

Ricklan has had some amazing years, no doubt. But those years are in the distant past now. Tyler hasn't made the Finals at all under him. There's been two trips to the Semis, the last coming back in 2014. They've had just 4 10+ win seasons. Losing seasons in 3 of the last 4 now. Even last year, JT ended the season with a humiliating 56-14 loss to Magnolia West despite making the playoffs.

It's a matter of how long Tyler ISD wants to continue to look the other way, really. Yes, 2018 was nice for the Lions, but 5 of the last 6 years for the Lions have been beyond sub par.

[JTFAN99]

11 hours ago, VonG said:

If there is no money coming in from the fans to support the program. The powers that be will make changes. Reason why, the fans have spoken. 

If a company loses money year after year. No matter how many years the management made money for the company. Do you keep the same management or do you make changes? The company is trending downward. That's the same way I see this program. # time for change. Nothing personal. 

I get your point, but I'm not sure you can apply that JT. I have been to several games at Rose stadium and there were hardly anyone there...and the team was good. High school football isn't ran like a fortune 500 company. Its alot more layers to it.

BUT...we are really having a pointless debate because I agree that change is needed.

[cujo2016]

Man, I Like “This” Ship

[JTFAN99]

10 hours ago, ANTI said:

A couple of people signing a petition doesn't speak for the majority lol

I am willing to bet that majority of CUJO fans are ready to see a change of scenery.

 

26 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Rumblings had been there for a while, but it seemed like a vocal minority. 

They're right- actions speak louder than words. Longview has always packed the stadium under King. If JT is getting back to where there are only a handful of fans, they need change in the worst way. 

 

We all know that a vocal minority can get more change done than a silent majority.  Happens all the time in this country.  The fact that anyone wanted King gone in the first place shows that there can be delusional fan bases.  Also, I wouldn't judge JT's fanbase on attendance because it can be shaky regardless of the teams record.

Regardless I do agree with ANTI...I'm sure most of the fanbase is reade for change.

[JTFAN99]

2 hours ago, Grainraiser said:

You can't hold on to a coach due to his pass success. How many times have you seen a program reach rock bottom and then rise from the ashes coached by the same guy. For whatever reason he has maxed out the program and they are what they are. Time for Tyler High to look towards the future and move on. It's no different than being in a bad marriage and praying it is going to get better. Coach Holmes has did great things for Tyler High but it is time for both parties to go their separate ways. 

But this happens all the time. You think if Scott Surratt goes 4-6 for the next 3 seasons he will lose his job.  NOPE.  King probably wouldn't eitther.  Past success gives you somewhat of a pass life in alot of things. 

However,  that can only last so long before that runs out.  I do agree that has just about ran out for Coach. Major change is needed. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by JTFAN99

[JTFAN99]

35 minutes ago, LoboFan07 said:

But I just don't see the situations between Longview and Tyler anything remotely alike.

Losing seasons in 3 of the last 4 now. Even last year, JT ended the season with a humiliating 56-14 loss to Magnolia West despite making the playoffs.

It's a matter of how long Tyler ISD wants to continue to look the other way, really. 

I wasn't comparing Holmes to King. Actually I used Allen Wilson to King as example.

My overall point is that "fans" will want to fire you if go 9-1 or 1-9.  So, determining a coaches future based on the fans is flawed. A good AD and Principal knows that.

Again, only bad 3 seaons out of 11. Alot of schools would trade for that. Unfortunately, is been 3 out of the last 4, so time is likely running out.  But, I wouldn't be shocked if he gets another yr.

[LoboFan07]

41 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

But this happens all the time. You think if Scott Surratt goes 4-6 for the next 3 seasons he will lose his job.  NOPE.  King probably wouldn't eitther.  Past success gives you somewhat of a pass life in alot of things.

I disagree. Surratt maybe gets to keep his job, but I can't see Longview accepting three straight 4-6 seasons and just accepting things as they are. I mean we've had three losing seasons in the last 50+ years lol.

I would hope if, and when, it came to such a time that King would recognize himself that change was needed, but after seeing how Holmes and Quick have played out, that's probably a pipe dream.

[Mikielee00]

This will just be bad lol 

[3rdcoastent]

I miss the days when this thread would be about what Longview excuse would be if they lost uniform colors ? 3rd string ? Lol now I’m looking to see Longview’s 3rd string team in but I’m holding on maybe just for one night jt makes it a game for a little bit