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Week Ten: Longview at Tyler


LoboFan07

Longview Lobos (8-0, 5-0) at Tyler Lions (2-6, 2-3)  

28 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins?

    • Longview in a blow out
    • Longview in a close one
    • Tyler in a close one
    • Tyler in a blow out
      0

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  • Poll closed on 10/29/2022 at 12:30 AM

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3 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

I get your point, but I'm not sure you can apply that JT. I have been to several games at Rose stadium and there were hardly anyone there...and the team was good. High school football isn't ran like a fortune 500 company. Its alot more layers to it.

BUT...we are really having a pointless debate because I agree that change is needed.

I can't remember a time when JT was good and they actually had a scarce crowd. Opposing fans yes. All the time. When JT was good did they sellout their side all the time no. But they always had a decent crowd when they were good and playing at home.

 

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19 minutes ago, 3rdcoastent said:

I miss the days when this thread would be about what Longview excuse would be if they lost uniform colors ? 3rd string ? Lol now I’m looking to see Longview’s 3rd string team in but I’m holding on maybe just for one night jt makes it a game for a little bit 

Honestly, I miss that too. Always had respect for John Tyler during and immediately after the Allen Wilson years. That "Hammer" offense was fun, even if it was "boring to watch". 

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3 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

But this happens all the time. You think if Scott Surratt goes 4-6 for the next 3 seasons he will lose his job.  NOPE.  King probably wouldn't eitther.  Past success gives you somewhat of a pass life in alot of things. 

However,  that can only last so long before that runs out.  I do agree that has just about ran out for Coach. Major change is needed. 

Sort of. 

For a coach like Surratt, he's a legend that has won multiple state titles. Hard to let him go unless something was fundamentally broken in his program. I can't see that ever being the case. Same with Coach King, but to a lesser extent. He brought Longview their first state title in almost a century. That alone will buy him quite a grace period. It's one thing to have great seasons. It's another to bring home the title, you know? 

Bero made it to state in 1997 for Longview. Then he missed the playoffs 2 years in a row and was fired. Had Longview won state in 97, I doubt he gets fired after 99, but who knows. 

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1 minute ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Sort of. 

For a coach like Surratt, he's a legend that has won multiple state titles. Hard to let him go unless something was fundamentally broken in his program. I can't see that ever being the case. Same with Coach King, but to a lesser extent. He brought Longview their first state title in almost a century. That alone will buy him quite a grace period. It's one thing to have great seasons. It's another to bring home the title, you know? 

Bero made it to state in 1997 for Longview. Then he missed the playoffs 2 years in a row and was fired. Had Longview won state in 97, I doubt he gets fired after 99, but who knows. 

I dunno man. I think it would’ve made it worse. Yes 98 had some crazy good teams in our district, but by 99. Eh. Gave up 50+ to freakin Ouachita. The numbers were already in the dirt too. 

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21 minutes ago, LoboFan07 said:

I dunno man. I think it would’ve made it worse. Yes 98 had some crazy good teams in our district, but by 99. Eh. Gave up 50+ to freakin Ouachita. The numbers were already in the dirt too. 

I think this is one of the most important metrics. Participation is really high, from 7th-12th. Granted, winning has had a lot to do with that, but it's not just in football but in other programs. Even those sports where we've struggled in recent years have fairly solid numbers.  

Frankly, it's hard for me to imagine a Longview squad going 4-6 for one season, let alone three. It would seem to point to some deeper, systemic problems in the Lobo community. Or if somehow we were placed in a crazy bizarro-world 6A district with, like, Guyer, Allen, Westlake, Duncanville, and North Shore. 

@Quick's crazy ### would probably love that lineup though.  :woot:

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This is a subject I can speak about. We made the playoffs of 11 straight years and I just won a district championship. Then the wheels fell completely off. We went 3-7, 2-8 and 2-8. Our old coach retired after the first losing season and the replacement (was only hired because he was on the current staff and had never even been a coordinator) won 4 games in two years. Hanby stadium was empty and even the freshman and JV teams were trash. Coach Hudler was fired and they hired a coach Allen whom I knew little about. He was the DC at Lancaster the year they went to the semi and was the current coach at North Crowley. When he took over the cup board was completely bare. Last Horn had only 3 players to make first or second team all district and two of them were seniors. He came in with a new staff and the whole program has bought in. The Freshman and JV team have a combined record of 16-2 and the varsity is at 7-2 with those two loses being by a combined 7 pts. His previous team is undefeated. He has certainly exceeded my expectations and in his first year he had made the program respectable again.  He is certainly coach of the year in 10-6A and should be in the running for coach of the year in the DFW. I shutter to think were we would be if we would have held on to coach Hudler for another year due to loyalty. I am sure deep down Coach Holmes know he is fighting a losing battle but it is what it is. It's time for both parties to move own.

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51 minutes ago, LoboFan07 said:

I dunno man. I think it would’ve made it worse. Yes 98 had some crazy good teams in our district, but by 99. Eh. Gave up 50+ to freakin Ouachita. The numbers were already in the dirt too. 

Ehhh, that's true. Goes back to what I said about something fundamentally being broken. It definitely was for that team. There was even some sort of "walk out" or something organized by players. 

Still, hard to fire a coach 2 years removed from a state championship. Losing that state game in disappointing fashion as we did made it worse than winning it would've. Just my opinion. 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Sort of. 

For a coach like Surratt, he's a legend that has won multiple state titles. Hard to let him go unless something was fundamentally broken in his program. I can't see that ever being the case. Same with Coach King, but to a lesser extent. He brought Longview their first state title in almost a century. That alone will buy him quite a grace period. It's one thing to have great seasons. It's another to bring home the title, you know? 

Bero made it to state in 1997 for Longview. Then he missed the playoffs 2 years in a row and was fired. Had Longview won state in 97, I doubt he gets fired after 99, but who knows. 

I agree. A state titile does bring more of a grace period.  But I think you get my overall point. Past success does buy a person some time.  Coach Holmes has won alot at JT and put several players in college. Honestly it's probably not a coach in East Texas who has gotten his players more college opportunities than Coach Holmes.  All of this has likely contributed to why he remains head coach.

But again, that can only last so long.

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1 hour ago, LoboFan07 said:

I dunno man. I think it would’ve made it worse. Yes 98 had some crazy good teams in our district, but by 99. Eh. Gave up 50+ to freakin Ouachita. The numbers were already in the dirt too. 

That old NE LA disttrict of Ouachita, Neville, West Monroe, and Ruston was on par with the old East Texas 5a district.  Everyone of those schools either won state or went to state in the 90s. Lots of great coaches come from that district, including some who have a direct connection to Longview and Longview area schools. Mike Vallery from Kilgore was at Ouachita in the 90s. Pat Collins was at West Ouachita. Ouachita is historically a great program. 

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1 minute ago, JTFAN99 said:

That old NE LA disttrict of Ouachita, Neville, West Monroe, and Ruston was on par with the old East Texas 5a district.  Everyone of those schools either won state or went to state in the 90s. Lots of great coaches come from that district, including some who have a direct connection to Longview and Longview area schools. Mike Vallery from Kilgore was at Ouachita in the 90s. Pat Collins was at West Ouachita. Ouachita is historically a great program. 

I understand they were a solid squad (finished 7-3 in regular season though).

Still, that was the first time a Longview team had given up 50 points to an opponent in 47 years at the time.

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1 hour ago, LOL said:

I think this is one of the most important metrics. Participation is really high, from 7th-12th. Granted, winning has had a lot to do with that, but it's not just in football but in other programs. Even those sports where we've struggled in recent years have fairly solid numbers.  

Frankly, it's hard for me to imagine a Longview squad going 4-6 for one season, let alone three. It would seem to point to some deeper, systemic problems in the Lobo community. Or if somehow we were placed in a crazy bizarro-world 6A district with, like, Guyer, Allen, Westlake, Duncanville, and North Shore. 

@Quick's crazy ### would probably love that lineup though.  :woot:

The one thing I have learned as I grow older in life is to expect the unexpected.  Remember. JT has also been a historic program. An unexpected coaching move and a bad hire can easily have you in the same boat.  Enjoy the success now and don't take it for granted. 

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9 minutes ago, LoboFan07 said:

I understand they were a solid squad (finished 7-3 in regular season though).

Still, that was the first time a Longview team had given up 50 points to an opponent in 47 years at the time.

Wait. Wasn't it Ruston who put 50 on Longview? For some reason I specifically remember it being Ruston. Were they all that much better?

 

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Wait. Wasn't it Ruston who put 50 on Longview? For some reason I specifically remember it being Ruston. Were they all that much better?

You right, misremembered myself. 51 at Ruston.

The Ouachita big loss was the next year.

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24 minutes ago, LoboFan07 said:

I understand they were a solid squad (finished 7-3 in regular season though).

Still, that was the first time a Longview team had given up 50 points to an opponent in 47 years at the time.

in 95 or 96, JT could have easily put 50 on Longview. I was there. They called off the dogs.  I thihk the final score was 42-7

Regardless, its no shame losing to Ouachita or Ruston like that. That district was loaded then. Now if you lost to Nacogdoches by that margin.....then I could see your point.

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4 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

The one thing I have learned as I grow older in life is to expect the unexpected.  Remember. JT has also been a historic program. An unexpected coaching move and a bad hire can easily have you in the same boat.  Enjoy the success now and don't take it for granted. 

Yep. Can't believe Wilson left a year after going to State in 2000 with the Lions. Thankfully Coach King seems very committed to Longview. 

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5 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Yep. Can't believe Wilson left a year after going to State in 2000 with the Lions. Thankfully Coach King seems very committed to Longview. 

it was alot more to his move, but I won't get into it. Lets just say it was probably more on the personal than professional side of things. Regardless, Lost a great coach..replaced him with a coach that seem good on the surface...and the program completely fell apart. It can happen that quickly. 

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I'll say this about Holmes...

I have no doubt that he'd be a solid DC + recruiting coordinator. There is certainly a spot on JTs staff with his name on it. Ive always said this. But the HC spot is a delicate position. It's not for everyone and that's okay.

I think sometimes in life, people underestimate the importance of roles. Majority of the success stories that I've known had one common denominator, it took a good team or collective group that most importantly understood their roles.

Look at the Spurs dynasty of the 2000s. Parker ran the offense, shooters that they had over the years (Bowen, Finley, Barry, D.Green etc) roamed the mid range-three point line but it was always understood that Duncan was the man. Ginobili even came off the bench despite how talented he was because it was understood that the 6 man role would help the team best. Being placed in the right position sure goes a long way, and that position may not necessarily always mean you'll be 'the man' or 'the guy in charge'. Takes a lot of moving parts for a well oiled machine to run, and those moving parts all play a key role. 

King is solid HC material but the staff he built up at Longview is also insane. Not only are they the right guys for the jobs, he has them in the right positions/roles that help the program thrive.

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10 hours ago, ANTI said:

I'll say this about Holmes...

I have no doubt that he'd be a solid DC + recruiting coordinator. There is certainly a spot on JTs staff with his name on it. Ive always said this. But the HC spot is a delicate position. It's not for everyone and that's okay.

I think sometimes in life, people underestimate the importance of roles. Majority of the success stories that I've known had one common denominator, it took a good team or collective group that most importantly understood their roles.

Look at the Spurs dynasty of the 2000s. Parker ran the offense, shooters that they had over the years (Bowen, Finley, Barry, D.Green etc) roamed the mid range-three point line but it was always understood that Duncan was the man. Ginobili even came off the bench despite how talented he was because it was understood that the 6 man role would help the team best. Being placed in the right position sure goes a long way, and that position may not necessarily always mean you'll be 'the man' or 'the guy in charge'. Takes a lot of moving parts for a well oiled machine to run, and those moving parts all play a key role. 

King is solid HC material but the staff he built up at Longview is also insane. Not only are they the right guys for the jobs, he has them in the right positions/roles that help the program thrive.

That will never happen. Coach Holmes would never take another position other than the head coach at JT. Pride won't let him do it. Once you become a head coach it's hard to step down into a DC or whatever roll. I been calling all the shots and now you want me to demote myself and have to answer to someone. 💩 no.

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