SDC TOP 10

[Valhalla]

This is what the "top" G5 schools did against P5 opponents in the regular season from 2018-2022.

SMU (2-4): Wins TCU x 2, Losses Maryland, TCU x 2, Michigan

UCF (4-3): Wins Georgia Tech x 2, Stanford, Pitt/ Losses Louisville x 2, Pitt

Houston (1-6): Wins Arizona/ Losses TX Tech x 3, Kansas, Oklahoma, Washington State

Cinci (5-2): Wins Indiana x 2, Notre Dame, UCLA x 2/ Losses Arkansas, Ohio State

Boise (1-3): Wins Florida State/ Losses Oregon State, Oklahoma State x 2

Memphis: (2-1) Wins Miss State, Ole Miss/ Losses Miss State.

UTSA (1-6): Wins Illinois/ Losses Houston, Texas, Baylor x 2, Arizona State, Kansas State

 

The only school would could really complain in Cinci, but they made the playoff.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Valhalla

[Lobo97]

16 minutes ago, WETSU said:

Expanded playoff is fine. But everyone needs to stop pretending that every other G5 team is some Cinderella story waiting to happen. 

I agree. I do believe, however, that if a team finishes the season undefeated, they should be in the playoffs, regardless what conference they're in.

[Coach Rab]

1 minute ago, Valhalla said:

This is what the "top" G5 schools did against P5 opponents in the regular season from 2018-2022.

SMU (2-4): Wins TCU x 2, Losses Maryland, TCU x 2, Michigan

UCF (4-3): Wins Georgia Tech x 2, Stanford, Pitt/ Losses Louisville x 2, Pitt

Houston (1-6): Wins Arizona/ Losses TX Tech x 3, Kansas, Oklahoma, Washington State

Cinci (5-2): Wins Indiana x 2, Notre Dame, UCLA x 2/ Losses Arkansas, Ohio State

Boise (1-3): Wins Florida State/ Losses Oregon State, Oklahoma State x 2

Memphis: (2-1) Wins Miss State, Ole Miss/ Losses Miss State.

UTSA (1-6): Wins Illinois/ Losses Houston, Texas, Baylor x 2, Arizona State, Kansas State

 

The only school would could really complain in Cinci, but they made the playoff.

I only see 1 win vs a P5 team when they were having a successful season and that is Cincy over Notre Dame.  Is there another one?  Was one of the SMU over TCU wins a year when TCU was good or even average?

[Valhalla]

5 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said:

I only see 1 win vs a P5 team when they were having a successful season and that is Cincy over Notre Dame.  Is there another one?  Was one of the SMU over TCU wins a year when TCU was good or even average?

No, they were not.

TCU was 5-7 in both years.

Ole Miss was 4-8 in the year they lost to Memphis. 

[Lobo97]

Who cares how many P5 wins they had in a year where they had multiple losses? Hell, a P5 team isn't making the playoff with 3, 4, or 5 losses. 

 

If a team finishes UNdefeated, they SHOULD be in the playoff. 

[Mr. P]

55 minutes ago, WETSU said:

Expanded playoff is fine. But everyone needs to stop pretending that every other G5 team is some Cinderella story waiting to happen. 

I think the majority of us would support some manner of "true" playoff where all conference champs meet. I wish some people would stop bringing that up like it's some kinda relevant argument. 

Yes, we get it, you wish there was a "true" playoff. We all do. Except for Valhalla, and maybe Waggle. 

[Mr. P]

28 minutes ago, Lobo97 said:

Who cares how many P5 wins they had in a year where they had multiple losses? Hell, a P5 team isn't making the playoff with 3, 4, or 5 losses. 

 

If a team finishes UNdefeated, they SHOULD be in the playoff. 

I'm inclined to agree with you, but could you give me a possible example of an undefeated lower-tier team that got shut out? Do you mean like UCF a couple years back? 

[Valhalla]

30 minutes ago, Lobo97 said:

Who cares how many P5 wins they had in a year where they had multiple losses? Hell, a P5 team isn't making the playoff with 3, 4, or 5 losses. 

 

If a team finishes UNdefeated, they SHOULD be in the playoff. 

They would in some of your guys prefered playoff format.

[Valhalla]

4 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

I'm inclined to agree with you, but could you give me a possible example of an undefeated lower-tier team that got shut out? Do you mean like UCF a couple years back? 

I have only believed that one since I have been watching college football has really been the "best" team. That was 2010 TCU.

[Lobo97]

43 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

I'm inclined to agree with you, but could you give me a possible example of an undefeated lower-tier team that got shut out? Do you mean like UCF a couple years back? 

There's been several instances where a non P5 team finished undefeated, but didn't get an opportunity to play for a championship...

 

2020 - Coastal Carolina 

2017 - UCF  

2016 - Western Michigan 

2010 - TCU 

2009 - TCU, Boise State

2008 - Utah, Boise State, Ball State

2007 - Hawaii 

2006 - Boise State 

2004 - Utah 

 

And before it's even said (and I know it'll be said)...

Yes, some of these teams lost their bowl games. That's a moot point. Why? Because those games are played AFTER the selections are already made. Going into the postseason, they were all undefeated.

How many of these teams would've beaten a team in the playoff, or NCG? Well that IS the question isn't it. You can look at the name and say, 'none of those teams are beating Bama/Clemson/Ohio State/etc, but we do NOT know that until the game is played. And that's why the game is played.

In an expanded playoff, these teams get a chance. 

[Mr. P]

1 minute ago, Lobo97 said:

And before it's even said (and I know it'll be said)...

Yes, some of these teams lost their bowl games. That's a moot point. Why? Because those games are played AFTER the selections are already made. Going into the postseason, they were all undefeated.

How many of these teams would've beaten a team in the playoff, or NCG? Well that IS the question isn't it. You can look at the name and say, 'none of those teams are beating Bama/Clemson/Ohio State/etc, but we do NOT know that until the game is played. And that's why the game is played.

In an expanded playoff, these teams get a chance. 

Yeah but some of those teams lost their bowl games. 

[Lobo97]

52 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

They would in some of your guys prefered playoff format.

As they should. If they're undefeated. 

 

If you disagree, then there's no other way to say it, except you are NOT a college football fan. You are simply a fan of the brand.

[Valhalla]

2 minutes ago, Lobo97 said:

As they should. If they're undefeated. 

 

If you disagree, then there's no other way to say it, except you are NOT a college football fan. You are simply a fan of the brand.

Don't NFL my college football.

[Coach Rab]

52 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

I'm inclined to agree with you, but could you give me a possible example of an undefeated lower-tier team that got shut out? Do you mean like UCF a couple years back? 

Remember, UCF got beaten by LSU the year before by LSU after going undefeated in the Fiesta Bowl in 2018.  In 2017, they wanted in the dance with an undefeated record with 1 ranked win against #20 Memphis.  I know they probably should have gotten a shot in 2017 and 2018, but with 4 teams and a crap schedule you can't expect to get in over teams with better resumes.

To the "they won in the schedule they were given,":  They weren't given their schedule.  They formed their schedule.  They paid teams to play them and others offered them money to play.  You can't tell me that some of those bigger P5 teams weren't willing to try and beat an AAC team that would give them a win over a potential 10-11 win team... No, they didn't want that loss on their record so they could argue that they were unblemished.

[Coach Rab]

11 minutes ago, Lobo97 said:

As they should. If they're undefeated. 

 

If you disagree, then there's no other way to say it, except you are NOT a college football fan. You are simply a fan of the brand.

I keep getting lost in this conversation.  Are you arguing that undefeated teams should be in the current format or that the current format should be changed to accommodate undefeated conference champs?  

[Lobo97]

1 minute ago, Mr. P said:

Yeah but some of those teams lost their bowl games. 

Some of those teams were very good. 

 

The '17 UCF team went on to beat Auburn. The same Auburn team that beat #1 Georgia and #1 Alabama, before losing the rematch to Georgia in the SEC CG. 

'10 TCU went on to beat Wisconsin, whose only loss was to Top 15 Michigan State, and also beating #1 Ohio State, who only lost to Wisc. that season.

'09 Boise and TCU played each other in their bowl game (no way the NCAA was going to let the BOTH finish undefeated, lol). The game finished in a 1 score game, with Boise winning. Boise beat P12 champ Oregon that season. 

Heck, those Boise teams were really good. From '06 to '09, they produced 3 undefeated  regular seasons, and 2 outright. From '06 - '11 they lost a total of 4 games, all to ranked opponents, while beating several ranked P5 teams along the way, including OU, Georgia, VT, and Oregon. 

[Lobo97]

4 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said:

I keep getting lost in this conversation.  Are you arguing that undefeated teams should be in the current format or that the current format should be changed to accommodate undefeated conference champs?  

I'm adding to my lists of reasons why the playoff should be expanded. 

If you're an undefeated team, you should be in the playoff. However, in the current format of only 4 teams, that's still incredibly difficult. In most years, there's been at least 1 undefeated P5 team in the CFP. They will always get in over an undefeated non P5 team. But even a 1 loss P5 champ is getting in over an undefeated non P5 team. 

[Lobo97]

21 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

Don't NFL my college football.

Eh, that's not close to what I said. I love the NFL playoffs, but it's also possible for a 7-9 team to make the NFL playoffs (see the '10 Seahawks). What I said, is if you win every game, you should be in. 

Your own reasoning for not wanting to expand the playoffs goes out the window when you also argue that an undefeated team shouldn't be in simply because of the conference they play in. You're all about, 'every regular season game matters'. Well, if you win every regular season game and still don't get in, then how in the hell does every game matter?

[Coach Rab]

7 minutes ago, Lobo97 said:

I'm adding to my lists of reasons why the playoff should be expanded. 

If you're an undefeated team, you should be in the playoff. However, in the current format of only 4 teams, that's still incredibly difficult. In most years, there's been at least 1 undefeated P5 team in the CFP. They will always get in over an undefeated non P5 team. But even a 1 loss P5 champ is getting in over an undefeated non P5 team. 

I can get on board with that, but not for the same reason.  I think this year, if it holds true, might be one of the reasons:

1. Sure, and undefeated G5 team should earn a spot in an expanded playoff, but should be able to be seeded according to their body of work.
2. There is a chance that 1 loss Tennessee with several good wins, 1 loss B10 team, 1 loss Clemson, etc gets left out....
If we have this in the end:

1. Georgia
2. Ohio St
3. TCU
4. For talking points lets say 1 loss USC

That will leave out these teams who are at least honorable mentions:

Tennessee (1 loss)
Alabama (2 loss)
Clemson (1 loss ACC Champ) or North Carolina (1 loss ACC Champ)

So the fix:

EXPANSION A- The conference Championship model

Georgia
Ohio State
TCU
USC
Clemson (or UNC)
UTSA
Ohio
Boise St
Coastal Carolina
UCF

That is 10 teams, up to 6 at large.  I don't think it would happen, but this would include several of the team above and leave plenty of room for others.

EXPANSION B- The 8-team model  (5 P5 Conference Champs, 3 At-large)

Georgia
Ohio St
TCU
USC
Clemson
Then likely Tenn, Michigan, Alabama

Expansion C- 8-team model (all at large)

Basically top 8 of the CFP poll
________________________________________________
I know there are plenty of other formats that you could go with here, but only one of these options that I think are actually possible includes G5 schools...  Another idea I think could become reality is the 8 team model where its the 5 P5 conference Champs the top G5 school (undefeated) then 2 at large.

[Lobo97]

41 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said:

Remember, UCF got beaten by LSU the year before by LSU after going undefeated in the Fiesta Bowl in 2018.  In 2017, they wanted in the dance with an undefeated record with 1 ranked win against #20 Memphis.  I know they probably should have gotten a shot in 2017 and 2018, but with 4 teams and a crap schedule you can't expect to get in over teams with better resumes.
 

Oh please. Clemson gets in all the time with a crap schedule, lol. They get away with it because it's considered a 'P5' conference. All the while, everyone constantly trashes the ACC for being garbage. 

 

In '18 & '19, Clemson beat 2 'ranked' teams. Neither of those teams finished ranked in either year. 

[Lobo97]

26 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said:

________________________________________________
I know there are plenty of other formats that you could go with here, but only one of these options that I think are actually possible includes G5 schools...  Another idea I think could become reality is the 8 team model where its the 5 P5 conference Champs the top G5 school (undefeated) then 2 at large.

Nope. I've laid out my idea many times before...

 

First, while I want to see the playoff expanded, and believe it should be, I also don't want to see it diluted. I love HS playoffs, but when you have so many teams that make it, that you get teams with losing records in, that's way too many.

 

So, here's my idea:

8 teams.

The 5 P5 champs automatically get in. 

Those 5 teams automatically get the Top 5 seeds. This makes winning those conferences still matter, which also means every game still matters.

It also forces Notre Dame to join a conference, if they ever want to qualify for a higher seed.

The next 3 are at large. If you are a non P5 team, you're required to finish in the Top 12, and so long as you do, you're in. The ONLY non P5 teams that have finished in the Top 12, have been undefeated. So, win all your games, and you're in. And only twice have two of them gone undefeated...'08, Utah and Boise, and '09, TCU and Boise. This also means, in order to increase their odds of finishing in the Top 12, they need to schedule someone respectable during OOC. 

This also allows a conference to possibly have 2 teams represented. So for those that believe in a year such as this one, that Tennessee is better than the P12 champ, but shouldn't make it in over a conference champ, you still get both.

[Valhalla]

2 hours ago, Lobo97 said:

Eh, that's not close to what I said. I love the NFL playoffs, but it's also possible for a 7-9 team to make the NFL playoffs (see the '10 Seahawks). What I said, is if you win every game, you should be in. 

Your own reasoning for not wanting to expand the playoffs goes out the window when you also argue that an undefeated team shouldn't be in simply because of the conference they play in. You're all about, 'every regular season game matters'. Well, if you win every regular season game and still don't get in, then how in the hell does every game matter?

Because I don’t live under the illusion that P5 and G5 teams are the same thing. 
 

If I were the G5 I would have already started my own championship, but they want that P5 $$$$$$$.

[RETIREDFAN1]

Only 3 weeks until my annual what a REAL playoff looks like ......lol.....stay tuned.......

[Lobo97]

5 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

Because I don’t live under the illusion that P5 and G5 teams are the same thing. 
 

If I were the G5 I would have already started my own championship, but they want that P5 $$$$$$$.

No one said they're the same thing, but you also don't get to decide which games matter, and which don't. 

 

Either every game matters, or they don't. 

[WETSU]

Am I the only one rooting for USC to win out simply so I can watch the meltdown from Kirt when they are in the playoff? Lol