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Tyler ISD Open?


TrumpisDump

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Oh also, I just don’t really think he was ever a good coach as far as game planning, clock management or strategy. Even in the good years JT just rolled out there and would out(athlete) most teams. Name me ONE game, just ONE in his whole tenure, where JT won as an actual underdog. I’ll wait. They’ve been out coached since he got the job. He never improved. The overall talent pool just always hid it. 

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On 11/30/2022 at 1:48 PM, cujoforlife said:

both are needed for Tyler High. 3-3-5 would a good defense to run with TH not having that big defensive line and it came checked down to 3-4 when needed. Running a pistol flexbone would be an interesting offense to have, because you have the option to pass out of it. watching the liberty Hill scrimmage that’s what gave me that idea.

If the d line isnt very big a 3-4 is going to hurt you. In a 3-4 you need 3 DUDES up front to control the o line from getting to your backers. You need a good nose that is a two gap player and demands a double up front!

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On 11/30/2022 at 4:06 PM, cujoforlife said:

Because of the play of the other teams in the district. You have to show that you’re going to pass some, and if you don’t have a good defense with an offense that has shown that it isn’t good playing from behind. Once you’re down two to three scores the games is over with your offense isn’t made for making big plays.

When TH was so dominate they used to run the split back. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to sling the ball around to win. Also contrary to popular belief you can throw the football in the flex, slot/t, wingt and split back offenses. I know that is hard for some people to comprehend that you don't have to be in the spread gun offense to throw or win games but its possible! The reason the spread offense became so effective was because it was new when it entered the high school ranks! Now everyone and their dog runs the same offense and you see teams going back to the old school offenses having success because you don't see the option and misdirection ran much anymore and makes it hard to defend!

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On 11/30/2022 at 7:07 PM, Destry said:

I agree with some of your statement but I have seen teams throw 20-25 times out of the old school offenses. Just a thought— why is it that generally spread offense teams have more points scored on them than old school offenses— talking scores of 60-45, 77-56,55-42? 

Because its 3 and out in 30 seconds and other teams back on the field. Makes it hard on defenses if your offense is having an off night. No time is ran off the clock. 

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21 minutes ago, LionHated said:

Oh also, I just don’t really think he was ever a good coach as far as game planning, clock management or strategy. Even in the good years JT just rolled out there and would out(athlete) most teams. Name me ONE game, just ONE in his whole tenure, where JT won as an actual underdog. I’ll wait. They’ve been out coached since he got the job. He never improved. The overall talent pool just always hid it. 

Thats right. Discipline and great coaching can beat talent!! 

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12 hours ago, gtee2 said:

Man that's a nightmare to defend 

It's hard to defend until you have to throw the ball. Kind of hard being one dimensional and being truly successful at it. Most of the times these offenses work at the lower level because they have bigger guys and just plow through people. It changes when you face people who are equally as big and fast as you are. If they also play gap sound defense it can become a nightmare. It forces you to pass the ball which in this offense you're not going to be really effective because you (1) don't work on it enough, and (2) you get behind the chains and the defense gets to sit back in coverage because it is obvious. High school football, I feel like you should be multiple. A good dose of both pass and run. It's the same principle if you have a great throwing QB and he goes down and the backup can't throw for crap. 

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9 hours ago, cujoforlife said:

That’s why the game evolves not even liberty Hill runs the old slot t. They were in a hurry up slot t. Where the teams have less time adjust to the plays. You will be hard pressed to see schools running the true slot t or wingT. That isn’t in the college football landscape anymore. Tascosa was the only team that have seen that has had success with the flexbone in large schools.

Burleson Centennial and Midlothian run Flex bone. Centennial is still playing this week and Midlo just got beat by Aledo. 

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10 minutes ago, Slickarick said:

Burleson Centennial and Midlothian run Flex bone. Centennial is still playing this week and Midlo just got beat by Aledo. 

Yep but people will come back and say yeah but did they win state with it!!! Crazy thing is 3-4 rounds deep may not be a state title but it beats 2-8

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59 minutes ago, theprodigy said:

When TH was so dominate they used to run the split back. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to sling the ball around to win. Also contrary to popular belief you can throw the football in the flex, slot/t, wingt and split back offenses. I know that is hard for some people to comprehend that you don't have to be in the spread gun offense to throw or win games but its possible! The reason the spread offense became so effective was because it was new when it entered the high school ranks! Now everyone and their dog runs the same offense and you see teams going back to the old school offenses having success because you don't see the option and misdirection ran much anymore and makes it hard to defend!

I couldn’t have said it any better. I feel 100% the same way. Bob McQueen at Temple used to run the wing t and threw whenever he wanted to. 

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21 minutes ago, theprodigy said:

Yep but people will come back and say yeah but did they win state with it!!! Crazy thing is 3-4 rounds deep may not be a state title but it beats 2-8

I'm a fan of being multiple on offense. Either way it goes, being one dimensional is a gift and curse. 

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22 hours ago, Slickarick said:

Yes after the great performances of 10 and winning it all in 11 C.H went through a rough patch from 12-19 with a random good year in 13 with 9 wins and playing in 14 games and a 5 win season including a playoff win in 14. Besides that from,  15-19 they won a total of 11 games.    Good news is , Including this year and the previous 2,(so 3 years total), they are only 1 win from tying the total wins from 13-19 . Incredible job there. 

Wonder how they got it flipped so quickly. They are doing a good job!

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4 minutes ago, GoodOleBoy73 said:

Wonder how they got it flipped so quickly. They are doing a good job!

Wonder how? Really?

Coaches who come in and work their butts off - holding kids accountable, being consistent, tough and outcoaching their opponents. Chapel Hill and Tyler High are VERY similar. Same kind of kids. Whoever comes in there needs to be prepared for a lot more than just coaching football. There IS talent there. It isn't going to be easy to flip, just like CH went 2-8 the first year...but those coaches worked in off season and built a culture. It can't just be the head coach...he needs to be able to bring in others to help build that culture.

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8 minutes ago, Go Bucks said:

Wonder how? Really?

Coaches who come in and work their butts off - holding kids accountable, being consistent, tough and outcoaching their opponents. Chapel Hill and Tyler High are VERY similar. Same kind of kids. Whoever comes in there needs to be prepared for a lot more than just coaching football. There IS talent there. It isn't going to be easy to flip, just like CH went 2-8 the first year...but those coaches worked in off season and built a culture. It can't just be the head coach...he needs to be able to bring in others to help build that culture.

Coaches work their butts off and also CH are getting JT kids. CH now has the dominant kids in Tyler. Use to be slit between Lee and JT but with rezoning and school choice, kids now choose to go to CH. There are so many schools to choose from in Tyler and it has disburse the talent pool. 

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That definitely has alot to do with it. Choices. I've been saying that all along. With all these schools eating off the plate how could you expect JT and Lee to sustain success long-term.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, theprodigy said:

If the d line isnt very big a 3-4 is going to hurt you. In a 3-4 you need 3 DUDES up front to control the o line from getting to your backers. You need a good nose that is a two gap player and demands a double up front!

Yes. However, would you have a 4-3 but you don’t have enough lineman to rotate in and out to keep in fresh legs a 3-3-5 and and a 3-4 looks better.

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1 hour ago, theprodigy said:

When TH was so dominate they used to run the split back. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to sling the ball around to win. Also contrary to popular belief you can throw the football in the flex, slot/t, wingt and split back offenses. I know that is hard for some people to comprehend that you don't have to be in the spread gun offense to throw or win games but its possible! The reason the spread offense became so effective was because it was new when it entered the high school ranks! Now everyone and their dog runs the same offense and you see teams going back to the old school offenses having success because you don't see the option and misdirection ran much anymore and makes it hard to defend!

I never said that you couldn’t pass out of them. My argument is. If you get behind it is harder for you to make up that ground. Not saying it can’t be done because I have seen it. The pistol flexbone. Still gives you the ability to pass make it look you’re going to pass when you’re not.

 

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21 hours ago, VonG said:

JT record the last 4 years. 

 

 

 

3-8

 

2-7

 

6-5 (thanks to Eli Holt showing up on the door steps)

 

2-8

 

Eventually we have to call it what it is. We can't keep living in a fantasy world. The truth of the matter is, JT talent pool is not deep as we would like to believe. 

I respect what you're saying. 

My beef with him was the questionable utilization of what he had. He isn't putting his teams in best position to win. Look at the McFall situation. Why in the wide world was he lining up outwide so much this year?! I hated watching CUJO just off that alone. JT should've adopted a power run game or at the very least, a heavily zone read based system. McFall shouldve been the epicenter of that offense at the RB position. That would then relieve pressure from a questionable QB situation and help open up everything else in the offense. Also, I know the OL was a huge topic for CUJO fans this year. I'd rather put a struggling OL in run block situation with the quality of back McFall is, than have them in pass protect w/ questionable QB play and McFall running routes. What effect would McFall have if the ball cant even make it to him? I just didn't get it. Greg Ward and Bryson Smith aren't always going to be walking through that door. Adjusting to what you have is the first sign of a competent HC. Holmes lacks in this department. Also, Holmes is a defensive guy. JT's defenses have long been a thorn in their sides, I expected a lot more out of the DL and secondary coming into the season. It's not a good look when the HC's side of expertise isn't producing.

On the topic of talent...I don't believe for one second Forney or McKinney North had more talent than JT this year. Absolutely not. But they did utilize what they had better than JT this year and McNorth was cracking in a brand new HC.

And Longview would not have the success they're seeing with Holmes as HC for various reasons. He'd probably move Taylor Tatum to QB and have him chunking the ball 20 times a game. 

I don't know....I think Lee definitely has a talent issue...probably culture issue more than anything. They need a hard nosed, run first, defensive minded guy and will probably need to go across state lines to get it. But JT...I mean if talent is the big issue at JT isn't this HC search a waste of time?

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The biggest difference is the middle school programs. Tyler has a lot of middle schools and Longview only have 3 I believe. The high school are hands on with the middle school programs and I've heard from many people that neither of Tyler's coaches have come around the middle school programs enough to make a difference. You have to start some type of culture at that age group. 

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You said something that made me laugh. You already know what part I'm talking about. What you said had alot of truth to it. Talent doesn't just mean skill position guys. I've said this before and I'll say it again. They lack Talent in the main department where it counts and lack coaching in the development of players. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, LionHated said:

Oh also, I just don’t really think he was ever a good coach as far as game planning, clock management or strategy. Even in the good years JT just rolled out there and would out(athlete) most teams. Name me ONE game, just ONE in his whole tenure, where JT won as an actual underdog. I’ll wait. They’ve been out coached since he got the job. He never improved. The overall talent pool just always hid it. 

My point exactly. We always have the talent we just have a coach that’s not good.

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7 minutes ago, TrumpisDump said:

The biggest difference is the middle school programs. Tyler has a lot of middle schools and Longview only have 3 I believe. The high school are hands on with the middle school programs and I've heard from many people that neither of Tyler's coaches have come around the middle school programs enough to make a difference. You have to start some type of culture at that age group. 

Currently, TISD has 4 MS feeding JT and Lee. LISD has 3. 

I thought Holmes was pretty involved with Boulter but I'm outside looking in.

But yes, the MS level is more important than people care to admit. That's the foundation. The first opportunity for the athletes to play organized football within an actual system.

When Collins/King and co came to Longview, I'll never forget, they made it their business to establish a solid MS system.

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1 minute ago, ANTI said:

Currently, TISD has 4 MS feeding JT and Lee. LISD has 3. 

I thought Holmes was pretty involved with Boulter but I'm outside looking in.

But yes, the MS level is more important than people care to admit. That's the foundation. The first opportunity for the athletes to play organized football within an actual system.

When Collins/King and co came to Longview, I'll never forget, they made it their business to establish a solid MS system.

4 is a lot for sure. It's a lot on the plate but utilize your coaches as well. I'm an outsider too. I just have a lot of friends who are involved in coaching and I learn a lot from them. Seems to be pretty true what they're saying. I attend games throughout ETX and I see different atmospheres at different schools and it's noticeable for sure. 

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JT was the underdog in quite a few games under Holmes tenure. When you are in district with Lindale, Whitehouse, Jacksonville, and etc. yeah you are clearly head and shoulders better than the rest. When you play against Longview, Rockwall, Lancaster, Lake Ridge, Aledo, Collins and etc. yeah you are the underdog. Everyone of those teams had something JT never had. NUMBERS!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ANTI said:

When Collins/King and co came to Longview, I'll never forget, they made it their business to establish a solid MS system.

It's crazy how engaged our coaches are on the middle and elementary (!!!) levels.

They know the kids who play multiple sports. They know who their daddies are (especially if they're former Lobos). They know what kinda grades they make. They know who's going to camps. 

Our AD/HC rarely (if ever) misses a middle school football game. He's always scouting his future roster. 

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