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5A Division I State Semi-Finals: Longview vs Aledo


LoboFan07
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Longview Lobos (14-0) vs Aledo Bearcats (12-2)  

95 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins?

    • Longview in a blow out
    • Longview in a close one
    • Aledo in a close one
    • Aledo in a blow out

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  • Poll closed on 12/10/2022 at 08:00 PM

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18 minutes ago, Quick said:

Man, you came at me talking about I was riled up and making up hypotheticals. This is “cap” at it’s finest. Like I said the ONLY complaint I have with John King to sum it up is his UNWILLINGNESS to come out of his conservatism and be aggressive when NEED be. Us being at their red zone towards the end of the Timberview game and deliberately running time out was NOT some fabricated story I made up. That sh @& actually happened just like I and everyone else seen it. Hell, I want the man to be BETTER than what he is.

He has the opportunity to be mentioned amongst the elite in Texas High School football BUT!!!!!! Keep it 💯 with yourself, he does some of the most boneheaded things at the most inopportune times. He reverts back to doing the little things that puts him and the team in positions that they don’t have to be in is all I have ever said. He won’t get out of his own way a lot of times and that’s just the honest-to-God truth.  
 

I understand why he was trying to run the clock out obviously but, the way we were moving the ball on them on the ground, we should have just put the nail in the proverbial coffin and then we damn sure ain’t got to worry about them staging some miraculous comeback. The team was way too dangerous to be playing around with. He needs to destroy a team’s WILL to win or want to even try with the horsepower we have this year. John Outlaw, would have had Timberview down SEVERAL scores and they’d be fighting amongst each other rather than taking cheap shots at our boys after every conceivable play.

Hey bro I totally agree with you... King by far is the BEST COACH that has ever touched LGV'S field "Hands Down". What you offer is a critique of what many of us have seen for years. Many won't critique King until we lose, and it breaks their heart lol... Year after year, the Achilles heel of Coach King shows up every time <especially> in small, but big areas like clock management, play calling on 3rd and long, not taking advantage of putting away dangerous teams that sends the right message and a few other things. Critique is what makes you better, but I understand many people can't take an honest critique. We reference John Outlaw due to coaching style, but I'm sure, if asked, many of his loyal followers could tell us the Achilles heel of Outlaw----I only saw one, "The presumed ego of Lufkin, during that time, is what beat Lufkin many times." Notice I said 'presumed' because they played with so much attitude!!! One must admit that attitude, took the heart of many opponents before one ball was snapped! Outlaw knew how to "send a message"! Don't get me wrong, King sends that same message: Yea, they know we gone run the ball, line-up in the I-formation and DARE you to STOP IT over and over again. Every team we've played say the same things about LGV, "They gone pound the ball" so they stack the box, and still can't stop it! I love that attitude/message King continues to send; but everyone needs a little critique...

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27 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

Think about this for a minute.

 

Texas from 2000-2010.  Far talented team 99% of games, very few championships.

LSU les miles tenure.  Far talented team 99% of games, very few championships.  
 

Both coaches had consistent success.  But contendors are usually separated from champions by coaching difference.  Les Miles and Mack Brown were good coaches and had teams contend every year.  They typically lost to better coaches.  Do you disagree?

We can look at composite recruiting rankings in college to see which teams do "less with more" and "more with less" when it comes to talent. Sadly, we can't do that with HS. Not easily, anyway.

Texas from 00-10 did have a lot of talent, and they won a LOT of games. They had only one national title in that span, but they usually lost to teams that were better. Or at the very least were close talent wise. It takes a lot to win a national title. You sometimes have to get lucky along the way. In 08, they lost to Tech in Lubbock on a freak play and then a bad BCS system. In 09 they lost their QB in a title game that could have gone either way. I don't think in 08 or 09 they got "outcoached" per se. They got a few bad breaks. It just didn't work out for them those years, or they could have easily won 3 titles in that span from 05-09, which would be unprecedented in the years before Saban.

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2 minutes ago, KINGLOBO said:

Many won't critique King until we lose, and it breaks their heart lol... Year after year, the Achilles heel of Coach King shows up every time <especially> in small, but big areas like clock management, play calling on 3rd and long, not taking advantage of putting away dangerous teams that sends the right message and a few other things.

Soooo we lost to guy in 2010 cause of clock management. What other playoff games did we lose due to clock management or "not putting away a dangerous team"? 

2 minutes ago, KINGLOBO said:

Critique is what makes you better, but I understand many people can't take an honest critique. 

I don't know how many ways I can say I hated the screen call on 3rd and 2. Or that I agree with you that him running the clock out wasn't the right move. But considering we won the game against a great team by 2 possessions (and for all intents and purposes, 3), I'm not going to rile myself up over them. I'll hope King learns from them (and he's said he made a few mistakes to clean up in postgame), but I don't really see any benefit in dwelling on the 2 mistakes he made as opposed to the wonderful game he called for the other 97%. 

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48 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

Think about this for a minute.

 

Texas from 2000-2010.  Far talented team 99% of games, very few championships.

LSU les miles tenure.  Far talented team 99% of games, very few championships.  
 

Both coaches had consistent success.  But contendors are usually separated from champions by coaching difference.  Les Miles and Mack Brown were good coaches and had teams contend every year.  They typically lost to better coaches.  Do you disagree?

That is a fair assessment.

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4 hours ago, LoboFan07 said:

Ok.

You really think we should've beaten THOSE Ryan teams the last two seasons?

Throw in 2019, we were no where near as talented as we had been in 2018. It still took a hall of famer's son and a missed extra point to beat us, especially after losing our top running back.

Do you really think we were more talented than Waco Midway back in 2017? Again a missed field goal.

What about 2016? Yes I think we were the better team against West Brook, but King's not the one fumbling the ball. Throw in having the worst defense we have had in program history statistically.

2015, Lake Ridge was definitely better than us. But again a missed field goal ended it.

Spot on!

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1 hour ago, JohnnyFootball said:

We can look at composite recruiting rankings in college to see which teams do "less with more" and "more with less" when it comes to talent. Sadly, we can't do that with HS. Not easily, anyway.

Texas from 00-10 did have a lot of talent, and they won a LOT of games. They had only one national title in that span, but they usually lost to teams that were better. Or at the very least were close talent wise. It takes a lot to win a national title. You sometimes have to get lucky along the way. In 08, they lost to Tech in Lubbock on a freak play and then a bad BCS system. In 09 they lost their QB in a title game that could have gone either way. I don't think in 08 or 09 they got "outcoached" per se. They got a few bad breaks. It just didn't work out for them those years, or they could have easily won 3 titles in that span from 05-09, which would be unprecedented in the years before Saban.

2008 in Lubbock, Texas scored with 1:33 left.  Too much time on the clock for Harrel, Leach and Tech.  Mack Brown should’ve had his guys understanding to run as much clock and not to score too fast.  
 

2009, Mack left Colt in lots of games that were blowouts.  Gilbert could’ve gotten lots of valuable reps but Colt’s run at a Heisman was too important.  Personal records were worried about more than team/program development.  
 

I notice you didn’t touch the LSU side of things.  Any particular reason why?

 

I think you Longview guys just don’t want to believe king underperforms at times.  So much so you’re willing to sell your players’ talent short.  Longview has as good of talent in the state IMO.  That is being given as a compliment.  And you don’t win a lot of games without being a good coach.  I think your overvaluing your coach and thinking he’s better than what he actually is though.  

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6 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

 

I think you Longview guys just don’t want to believe king underperforms at times.  

Who said he hasn't had his hiccups? 

I dont think that any of us agree with every single thing he does....I just don't understand the need to lament over things that happened over a decade ago. 

Especially when his record speaks for itself, not to mention state championship bling. Someone asked the question earlier..but it got looked over I guess. But how many non suburban 5A/6A programs in Texas are doing what Longview is doing? I'll wait.

I have another question. Why haven't we seen you in a Longview thread all year, up until now? 

You don't have to answer, some of us already know what you're doing. You're trying to set this whole "Longview should win this by X amount of points" so that if we don't, it gives you the green light to do your yearly bash on the Longview program/Coach King. Same material, different year. You're a closet Longview hater...always have been, probably always will be. 

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43 minutes ago, ANTI said:

Who said he hasn't had his hiccups? 

I dont think that any of us agree with every single thing he does....I just don't understand the need to lament over things that happened over a decade ago. 

Especially when his record speaks for itself, not to mention state championship bling. Someone asked the question earlier..but it got looked over I guess. But how many non suburban 5A/6A programs in Texas are doing what Longview is doing? I'll wait.

I have another question. Why haven't we seen you in a Longview thread all year, up until now? 

You don't have to answer, some of us already know what you're doing. You're trying to set this whole "Longview should win this by X amount of points" so that if we don't, it gives you the green light to do your yearly bash on the Longview program/Coach King. Same material, different year. You're a closet Longview hater...always have been, probably always will be. 

They actually showed a stat that Longview is the only team other than Lufkin and Lee in the last 20 years that wasn't a city/suburb team to win a station championship at the highest classification. Dunno if that's true or not. \

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14 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

They actually showed a stat that Longview is the only team other than Lufkin and Lee in the last 20 years that wasn't a city/suburb team to win a station championship at the highest classification. Dunno if that's true or not. \

Abilene won it in 2009.

But yeah, it ain't happening very often.

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21 hours ago, AledoAlumni said:

Excited to get away from the slot-t, wing-t, triple option, ect run teams. We accept the challenge of bully ball. 

 

 

 

*Bully ball- Longviews version of we are going to line up in the I-formation and run right at you. No tricks, no gadgets, just big on big. 

They do it just about better than anyone else. It’s so simple but hard to stop.

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1 hour ago, DB2point0 said:

2008 in Lubbock, Texas scored with 1:33 left.  Too much time on the clock for Harrel, Leach and Tech.  Mack Brown should’ve had his guys understanding to run as much clock and not to score too fast.  
 

2009, Mack left Colt in lots of games that were blowouts.  Gilbert could’ve gotten lots of valuable reps but Colt’s run at a Heisman was too important.  Personal records were worried about more than team/program development.  
 

I mean sure, Brown made some "mistakes" in those years. Not saying he was a perfect coach by any means. But along the way, a lot of things have to go right. They just didn't. Even had Gilbert gotten playing time, he wouldn't have filled the hole that Colt's 4 years of experience left. It just wouldn't. It was just an unfortunate event. 

1 hour ago, DB2point0 said:

I notice you didn’t touch the LSU side of things.  Any particular reason why?

Didn't really follow LSU too closely in those seasons to be able to comment on them. Did they have top 5 talent those years Miles was there? He definitely made some boneheaded calls. And won the title despite 2 losses, which means he got crazy fortunate.

The point you're making is that these two teams were loaded with talent but rarely won titles due to bad coaching, right? I don't think anyone would argue that about LSU, though I don't know how well they recruited when Miles was there, honestly. I know Mack had some great talent at Texas- some of the best. And yeah, they only won 1 title. Things just didn't go their way in 08 and 09. I still think they should've been able to play for the title in 08 despite the loss to Tech. With a College Football Playoff, they would've had their chance. 

1 hour ago, DB2point0 said:

I think you Longview guys just don’t want to believe king underperforms at times.  So much so you’re willing to sell your players’ talent short.  Longview has as good of talent in the state IMO.  That is being given as a compliment.  And you don’t win a lot of games without being a good coach.  I think your overvaluing your coach and thinking he’s better than what he actually is though.  

Maybe. Longview has had some athletes and great talent over the years, that's for certain. But as LoboFan07 said before, we usually only lost in the playoffs to teams with more talent than us over the years. Hence why I mentioned I wish there were an easy way to pull up composite rankings of talent on teams in HS the way there is in College. Sadly, there isn't so it's purely subjective.

Did King get outcoached in some of those games? Well, sure. He himself said he coached a bad game against Tascosa in 18 in spite of the win. And mentioned earlier this year against Lancaster that he didn't coach his best game. He's also outcoached other teams at times too. 

 

Fact is, Longview has had an amazing run since King took over. He has 211 wins in 19 years. Meaning he averages 11 wins a year. He has 15 district championships, a state championship, 3 state finals appearances, and 3 other semifinal appearances... He's consistently had Longview making noise in the playoffs. 

Also consider other "big schools" in the area. John Tyler and Lee in that time have had a couple great years but have had some very, very bad years along the way too. John Tyler has had several 2-3 win seasons during that time. Lee as well. Lufkin has been decent and had a couple good years (none after 05, King's second year). They've also had a few 4-6 and 5-6 kinda seasons in there. Our worst year was 8-3 or 9-4.

So like I said, in regards to the mistakes he made on Friday night.... When you look at King's tenure here, I can certainly acknowledge mistakes/underperformances while still appreciating the overall body of work. 

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11 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

I mean sure, Brown made some "mistakes" in those years. Not saying he was a perfect coach by any means. But along the way, a lot of things have to go right. They just didn't. Even had Gilbert gotten playing time, he wouldn't have filled the hole that Colt's 4 years of experience left. It just wouldn't. It was just an unfortunate event. 

Didn't really follow LSU too closely in those seasons to be able to comment on them. Did they have top 5 talent those years Miles was there? He definitely made some boneheaded calls. And won the title despite 2 losses, which means he got crazy fortunate.

The point you're making is that these two teams were loaded with talent but rarely won titles due to bad coaching, right? I don't think anyone would argue that about LSU, though I don't know how well they recruited when Miles was there, honestly. I know Mack had some great talent at Texas- some of the best. And yeah, they only won 1 title. Things just didn't go their way in 08 and 09. I still think they should've been able to play for the title in 08 despite the loss to Tech. With a College Football Playoff, they would've had their chance. 

Maybe. Longview has had some athletes and great talent over the years, that's for certain. But as LoboFan07 said before, we usually only lost in the playoffs to teams with more talent than us over the years. Hence why I mentioned I wish there were an easy way to pull up composite rankings of talent on teams in HS the way there is in College. Sadly, there isn't so it's purely subjective.

Did King get outcoached in some of those games? Well, sure. He himself said he coached a bad game against Tascosa in 18 in spite of the win. And mentioned earlier this year against Lancaster that he didn't coach his best game. He's also outcoached other teams at times too. 

 

Fact is, Longview has had an amazing run since King took over. He has 211 wins in 19 years. Meaning he averages 11 wins a year. He has 15 district championships, a state championship, 3 state finals appearances, and 3 other semifinal appearances... He's consistently had Longview making noise in the playoffs. 

Also consider other "big schools" in the area. John Tyler and Lee in that time have had a couple great years but have had some very, very bad years along the way too. John Tyler has had several 2-3 win seasons during that time. Lee as well. Lufkin has been decent and had a couple good years (none after 05, King's second year). They've also had a few 4-6 and 5-6 kinda seasons in there. Our worst year was 8-3 or 9-4.

So like I said, in regards to the mistakes he made on Friday night.... When you look at King's tenure here, I can certainly acknowledge mistakes/underperformances while still appreciating the overall body of work. 

Gilbert was the top qb recruit in the nation, and completely obliterated a stacked Longview team at Floyd Casey, I was there.  I think Gilbert passed for 350 and ran for over 100 iirc.

Gilbert stunk at Texas because Brown tried to turn his zone blocking OL into a power rung team in a year or two.  
 

i think you guys are selling your talent short for the sake of propping your coach up to be some kinda god or something.

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34 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

Gilbert was the top qb recruit in the nation, and completely obliterated a stacked Longview team at Floyd Casey, I was there.  I think Gilbert passed for 350 and ran for over 100 iirc.

Gilbert stunk at Texas because Brown tried to turn his zone blocking OL into a power rung team in a year or two.  
 

i think you guys are selling your talent short for the sake of propping your coach up to be some kinda god or something.

Yeah I remember. Gilbert was a beast. He’s in the NFL now right? I still don’t see him competing with 09 Bama as a true Freshman. Maybe I’m wrong. 

That’s certainly an opinion. I don’t think King is a god. But I do think he’s consistently had us playing well, sometimes elite while other big schools around us have struggled. Either we’re lucky or have a pretty good coach lol

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16 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Let’s see. 3-2, I believe. 
 

Beat Guyer in 08 & 09, beat Tascosa in 18. 

Lost to Guyer in 10 and Midway in 17. Both due to special teams blunders. 😭

Correct. Lost those two by a total of 3 points.

That 08 Guyer game remains one of the most fun games of the King era imo. Guyer was almost not even there either save for their crazy comeback the week before (without mentioning our OT game vs Midway the week prior as well)

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