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17 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Lol I made a comment like that years ago because people SWARMED when I dared to say the 83 Daingerfield Tigers were one of the most dominant teams pound-for-pound but wouldn't win heads up against some of the best 5A teams in history. Fun times. 

That’s kind of how I feel on this thread.

Typically, if you say any team could’ve beaten ‘83 Daingerfield then you are spewing blasphemy.

I didn’t intend on causing such a stir, but if you dare say Samples could’ve done anything just a tad bit differently you are attacked and are a villain. 

Why is that?

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1 hour ago, BoyzNdaHood said:

Carthage beats most 5a squads... they won't beat Longview SOC aledo etc... hell I'll put franklin, gunter, Gilmer PG and others up against 5a schools and have good chances 

Point being 6a ball is different, pretty much college level players throughout the roster

Just for context purposes (because I keep seeing people generalize 5A), there is a distinct difference between 5A D2 and 5A D1.

5A D1 is dang near an extension of "6A D2". This is why when 7A gets created, you're going to see Legacy, Longview and Tyler High back in the same district. Not to mention all of the 5A D1 schools with current 6A numbers as I type.

5A D2 is a "transition" classification that mostly (not exclusively) has 4A D1 characteristics, safe for the SOC's of the world.

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41 minutes ago, ANTI said:

Just for context purposes (because I keep seeing people generalize 5A), there is a distinct difference between 5A D2 and 5A D1.

5A D1 is dang near an extension of "6A D2". This is why when 7A gets created, you're going to see Legacy, Longview and Tyler High back in the same district. Not to mention all of the 5A D1 schools with current 6A numbers as I type.

5A D2 is a "transition" classification that mostly (not exclusively) has 4A D1 characteristics, safe for the SOC's of the world.

Right? The top of 4A D1 could definitely compete with most of 5A D2, I’d bet. And the top of 5A D1 could compete with a lot of 6A. 

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2 hours ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

That’s kind of how I feel on this thread.

Typically, if you say any team could’ve beaten ‘83 Daingerfield then you are spewing blasphemy.

I didn’t intend on causing such a stir, but if you dare say Samples could’ve done anything just a tad bit differently you are attacked and are a villain. 

Why is that?

Because that is not exactly what you said...this is what you said:

     "I don’t think Samples is a great coach, but glad he finally won state."

Honestly, it's not a big deal really, you have an opinion just as everyone else. I think the reason you are feeling attacked and like a villain is because (from what I have read) the majority do not share that opinion. Again, not a big deal, everyone has an opinion.

What I consider to be a great coach goes far beyond how many gold footballs and plaques are in the trophy case, but that is just my opinion. I'm a little old school, and having seen how kids lives (especially kids in the inner city) can be completely transformed for the better with success that doesn't quite reach the championship level is something I value more than probably the next guy. But yeh, most people are going to look at the trophy case.

Samples has been in the business 30+ years and is the winningest black coach in Texas HS football history, now with a title. Factor in how many kids he has lead to be better people, fathers, husbands, community leaders, and even go into coaching and giving back. Coaches like him, that coach not only because they love football, but for the love of kids and the kid's future are all great in my opinion, I don't care how many trophies they have, and I don't need someone sitting behind a desk on a TV program at AT&T Stadium to tell me who is great.

I know I'm off the topic of just winning and losing, but everyone has their own perspective when it comes to greatness.

 

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4 hours ago, BoyzNdaHood said:

Carthage beats most 5a squads... they won't beat Longview SOC aledo etc... hell I'll put franklin, gunter, Gilmer PG and others up against 5a schools and have good chances 

Point being 6a ball is different, pretty much college level players throughout the roster

Longview was 6a.  Why didn’t they win it all in 5a, if there’s that much difference they should’ve doninated.  Longview also got embarrassed in the 4a title game a decade ago.  

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2 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

Longview was 6a.  Why didn’t they win it all in 5a, if there’s that much difference they should’ve doninated.  Longview also got embarrassed in the 4a title game a decade ago.  

Yep. The top of each classification could probably compete quite a bit with the next highest classification. 

That Lake Travis team was ranked #3 in the nation. Meaning they’d have beaten quite a few 5A teams that year, if not all. 

As someone pointed out though, 5A D1 and 5A D2 are different. 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Yep. The top of each classification could probably compete quite a bit with the next highest classification. 

That Lake Travis team was ranked #3 in the nation. Meaning they’d have beaten quite a few 5A teams that year, if not all. 

As someone pointed out though, 5A D1 and 5A D2 are different. 

The region that a team is in says a lot imo….Lovejoy beat College Station by 30 and they finished 2nd in district then got beat out in the 2nd round of the D2 playoffs. 

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Good teams can compete well with the classifications right above them. Longview would do well in 6A1 since they have been in that division before. Things get a little more dicey when try to jump two classifications or more. You can compete the average teams but that top 10 is a different animal.

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19 minutes ago, Grainraiser said:

Good teams can compete well with the classifications right above them. Longview would do well in 6A1 since they have been in that division before. Things get a little more dicey when try to jump two classifications or more. You can compete the average teams but that top 10 is a different animal.

No doubt. RC made the jump from 5a D2 to 6a D2, skipping 5a D1 this year. They surprised the fan base for sure making the playoffs as a3 seed, but they weren’t ready for 2nd round competition. I don’t know that they would have won 1st round if it was against a district other than the Garland district.

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4 hours ago, dfwfootballfan said:

Because that is not exactly what you said...this is what you said:

     "I don’t think Samples is a great coach, but glad he finally won state."

Honestly, it's not a big deal really, you have an opinion just as everyone else. I think the reason you are feeling attacked and like a villain is because (from what I have read) the majority do not share that opinion. Again, not a big deal, everyone has an opinion.

What I consider to be a great coach goes far beyond how many gold footballs and plaques are in the trophy case, but that is just my opinion. I'm a little old school, and having seen how kids lives (especially kids in the inner city) can be completely transformed for the better with success that doesn't quite reach the championship level is something I value more than probably the next guy. But yeh, most people are going to look at the trophy case.

Samples has been in the business 30+ years and is the winningest black coach in Texas HS football history, now with a title. Factor in how many kids he has lead to be better people, fathers, husbands, community leaders, and even go into coaching and giving back. Coaches like him, that coach not only because they love football, but for the love of kids and the kid's future are all great in my opinion, I don't care how many trophies they have, and I don't need someone sitting behind a desk on a TV program at AT&T Stadium to tell me who is great.

I know I'm off the topic of just winning and losing, but everyone has their own perspective when it comes to greatness.

 

All you have to do is take a drive through South Dallas (not South Oak Cliff), but South Dallas/Fair Park area.  Then you would understand how amazing it was for Samples to lead Lincoln High school to a state title game.  A game they almost won.  Don't need a gold ball to tell me that's greatness. 

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2 hours ago, Grainraiser said:

Good teams can compete well with the classifications right above them. Longview would do well in 6A1 since they have been in that division before. Things get a little more dicey when try to jump two classifications or more. You can compete the average teams but that top 10 is a different animal.

I mostly agree with this. But I watch alot of high school games outside of Texas. In many states, teams separated by more than 1 or 2 classes/divisions play each other all time. Although the bigger school wins the majority of the time, its really not that uncommon for smaller schools to pull off a win. You would probably be shocked how often it happens. 

Some teams transcend classifications. Carthage most yrs do, and by most accounts, Daingerfield 83 did.

 

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14 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

All you have to do is take a drive through South Dallas (not South Oak Cliff), but South Dallas/Fair Park area.  Then you would understand how amazing it was for Samples to lead Lincoln High school to a state title game.  A game they almost won.  Don't need a gold ball to tell me that's greatness. 

Had a good QB that year, I think he ended up playing BB at Okie St if I remember correctly.

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5 hours ago, dfwfootballfan said:

Because that is not exactly what you said...this is what you said:

     "I don’t think Samples is a great coach, but glad he finally won state."

Honestly, it's not a big deal really, you have an opinion just as everyone else. I think the reason you are feeling attacked and like a villain is because (from what I have read) the majority do not share that opinion. Again, not a big deal, everyone has an opinion.

What I consider to be a great coach goes far beyond how many gold footballs and plaques are in the trophy case, but that is just my opinion. I'm a little old school, and having seen how kids lives (especially kids in the inner city) can be completely transformed for the better with success that doesn't quite reach the championship level is something I value more than probably the next guy. But yeh, most people are going to look at the trophy case.

Samples has been in the business 30+ years and is the winningest black coach in Texas HS football history, now with a title. Factor in how many kids he has lead to be better people, fathers, husbands, community leaders, and even go into coaching and giving back. Coaches like him, that coach not only because they love football, but for the love of kids and the kid's future are all great in my opinion, I don't care how many trophies they have, and I don't need someone sitting behind a desk on a TV program at AT&T Stadium to tell me who is great.

I know I'm off the topic of just winning and losing, but everyone has their own perspective when it comes to greatness.

 

Reggie is a very good coach. He is a very good man. He takes care of his kids, mentors them and teaches them to be good men.

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27 minutes ago, Olduy said:

Reggie is a very good coach. He is a very good man. He takes care of his kids, mentors them and teaches them to be good men.

https://www.focusdailynews.com/reginald-samples-gets-300th-win-with-victory-over-rival/

that’s a good read right there, there’s another story that talks about how his jr high coach made such an impact on him that he wanted to give back, his jr high coach mentored him when he was without a father and young and impressionable. He’s just a class guy. I’ll see if I can find it.

 Several articles here…

https://www.focusdailynews.com/?s=Reginald+samples

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I mostly agree with the difference in classifications debate. Although I believe the biggest difference and where I tend to lean the other way is depth. The lower classified teams could compete for maybe a half, then the depth of the larger class would take over. And yes, this includes teams like Carthage too. Now, where what you all are saying really happens is on the hardwood. Pause. You regularly see lower classes compete and even dominate larger schools. Question…Could this current Carthage team have beaten a very down Tyler High team this year? 

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I only saw Tyler play against RC, so I can’t really say. But you make a great point. RC being one of the smallest and newest to 6a gave Rockwall fits and was either tied or ahead at half. They just didn’t have the depth to continue the high level of play in the second half. Depth plays a big part in 5a and 6a.

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1 hour ago, JTFAN99 said:

All you have to do is take a drive through South Dallas (not South Oak Cliff), but South Dallas/Fair Park area.  Then you would understand how amazing it was for Samples to lead Lincoln High school to a state title game.  A game they almost won.  Don't need a gold ball to tell me that's greatness. 

Yes, I have driven through there quite a few times and see it’s rough. 
His time there is impressive. 

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4 hours ago, ANTI said:

Yes.

Lions and many folks of all sizes would have trouble trying to cover all those receivers while Cuff is throwing bombs.

Classification and enrollment size does not win football games no matter how badly some want to believe it does.

If enrollment always equalled wins Allen, Plano East, Plano West and Plano would never lose a game.

You cannot lump Carthage into the normal viewpoint of 4A football.  
Good example, when was the last time we played a close state championship game in 4A-D1 or 4A-D2?

The answer is 2009, and the only reason that game was close is turnovers/mistakes just like the Glen Rose game this year, which had it not have been for a poor decision on a block that didn’t matter it would’ve been 35-14 in the 3rd quarter..anyhow..
When we play clean, which is much more often than not we can compete with a whole lot of teams of all sizes.

Fun fact:

In this current era, one year our starting offensive line averaged larger than the starting OL of the Dallas Cowboys that same year.

For some reason we generally have very large kids for a school of our enrollment size.

 

 

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11 hours ago, LionHated said:

Don’t forget Chris Bosh. If I recall correctly, I believe Bosh played tailback for that Lincoln team. I could be wrong though. 

he had graduated a couple yrs before Lincoln went to state in football.  Dud would have  been the tallest rb ever if he did play...lol

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11 hours ago, LionHated said:

I mostly agree with the difference in classifications debate. Although I believe the biggest difference and where I tend to lean the other way is depth. The lower classified teams could compete for maybe a half, then the depth of the larger class would take over. And yes, this includes teams like Carthage too. Now, where what you all are saying really happens is on the hardwood. Pause. You regularly see lower classes compete and even dominate larger schools. Question…Could this current Carthage team have beaten a very down Tyler High team this year? 

Carthage would have beat JT the past 3 or 4 yrs. And probably every large school in East Texas outside of LV and maybe Texas High. But they have a decent shot for an upset against both.

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10 hours ago, dfwfootballfan said:

I only saw Tyler play against RC, so I can’t really say. But you make a great point. RC being one of the smallest and newest to 6a gave Rockwall fits and was either tied or ahead at half. They just didn’t have the depth to continue the high level of play in the second half. Depth plays a big part in 5a and 6a.

Tyler High didn't play RC. You thinking of Tyler Legacy. 

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