Minnesota bill would protect pedophiles as a ‘sexual orientation’

[Monte1076]

3 minutes ago, BarryLaverty said:

So, @Lobo97, there you go. 

So what's your opinion on "gender affirming care" and/or "sex reassignment surgery" (i.e. mastectomies and genital mutilation) for those under 18? Knowing the consequences later?

[Lobo97]

I am a man of faith and completely agree with the Bible’s teaching on family. The Bible also talks about protecting children, however. With that, you have to ask the question, why is a child pregnant. For a child to be pregnant, means someone did not protect that child. Majority of the time, for a child to be pregnant, an adult took advantage of them. This is not acceptable, even by God. For that reason, I do not agree that having the child be married is the right solution. 
God is also against divorce. However, there are still certain times in which he permits it, for the protection of one involved. 

[RETIREDFAN1]

2 minutes ago, Lobo97 said:

I am a man of faith and completely agree with the Bible’s teaching on family. The Bible also talks about protecting children, however. With that, you have to ask the question, why is a child pregnant. For a child to be pregnant, means someone did not protect that child. Majority of the time, for a child to be pregnant, an adult took advantage of them. This is not acceptable, even by God. For that reason, I do not agree that having the child be married is the right solution. 
God is also against divorce. However, there are still certain times in which he permits it, for the protection of one involved. 

The two Larry is talking about are near the same or maybe are the same age and got pregnant.....so no, no adult took advantage of anyone......their parents agreed to the marriage...... perfectly scriptural........

The ONLY time God allows divorce is if one of the partners is unfaithful.....

[BarryLaverty]

12 minutes ago, Monte1076 said:

"sex reassignment surgery" (i.e. mastectomies and genital mutilation)

Personally think that should wait until they are of age, that is, at least 18. 

[BarryLaverty]

23 minutes ago, Monte1076 said:

"gender affirming care"

And I am for this, with parental consent for those under 18, if appropriate steps are taken. 

https://www.aamc.org/news/what-gender-affirming-care-your-questions-answered

[Lobo97]

7 minutes ago, RETIREDFAN1 said:

The two Larry is talking about are near the same or maybe are the same age and got pregnant.....so no, no adult took advantage of anyone......their parents agreed to the marriage...... perfectly scriptural........

The ONLY time God allows divorce is if one of the partners is unfaithful.....

That's not entirely accurate. See, most people read that passage and interpret it the very way in which you just implied it...in a literal sense. What this passage is referring to, is when God allows you to remarry AFTER a divorce. 

Again, as a man of God myself, I cannot imagine an instance in which God's desire would be to remain with a man who physically abuses his wife and/or children. However, even in this instance, because God does hate divorce, does not mean he would prefer the wife to immediately seek divorce. On the contrary, he would still prefer repentance and restoration. If this were not to ever happen (on the part of the abuser), then I do not believe God would want the person being abused to put themselves back in it. 

 

As for the topic already being discussed, you'd have to provide the age of the 'child'. If they are 17, for example, that's one thing. If they are 10, I still hold strong in my belief that having those two children be married is not the right solution; and I'd argue once again, that some adult somewhere was still not protecting those two children.

[Lobo97]

5 minutes ago, BarryLaverty said:

And I am for this, with parental consent for those under 18, if appropriate steps are taken. 

https://www.aamc.org/news/what-gender-affirming-care-your-questions-answered

This still means that we are teaching children that they can be another sex, which they cannot. 

[BarryLaverty]

Just now, Lobo97 said:

This still means that we are teaching children that they can be another sex, which they cannot. 

I think if you look at it closely, it is more about helping them navigate mental health issues, while not being primarily about permanent body changes. 

[JBizzle]

1 hour ago, BarryLaverty said:

While I have heard 'conservatives' on here adamantly defending child marriages. Seems a little hypocritical. 

Again, not addressing the topic at hand....

[Lobo97]

2 hours ago, BarryLaverty said:

I think if you look at it closely, it is more about helping them navigate mental health issues, while not being primarily about permanent body changes. 

Being confused about whether you’re a boy or girl is the mental issue; and we should be treating that, not encouraging it. 

[Monte1076]

20 minutes ago, BarryLaverty said:

And I am for this, with parental consent for those under 18, if appropriate steps are taken. 

https://www.aamc.org/news/what-gender-affirming-care-your-questions-answered

How do you "affirm" someone who uses "zir" as a pronoun? Nobody even knows what the heck it means!

[RETIREDFAN1]

2 hours ago, Lobo97 said:

That's not entirely accurate. See, most people read that passage and interpret it the very way in which you just implied it...in a literal sense. What this passage is referring to, is when God allows you to remarry AFTER a divorce. 

Again, as a man of God myself, I cannot imagine an instance in which God's desire would be to remain with a man who physically abuses his wife and/or children. However, even in this instance, because God does hate divorce, does not mean he would prefer the wife to immediately seek divorce. On the contrary, he would still prefer repentance and restoration. If this were not to ever happen (on the part of the abuser), then I do not believe God would want the person being abused to put themselves back in it. 

 

As for the topic already being discussed, you'd have to provide the age of the 'child'. If they are 17, for example, that's one thing. If they are 10, I still hold strong in my belief that having those two children be married is not the right solution; and I'd argue once again, that some adult somewhere was still not protecting those two children.

You are correct........the only one allowed to remarry is one who has been the victim of an unfaithful partner.......

I think they were 12....

[Monte1076]

10 minutes ago, RETIREDFAN1 said:

the only one allowed to remarry is one who has been the victim of an unfaithful partner.......

What about in instances where the partner dies?

[RETIREDFAN1]

Just now, Monte1076 said:

What about in instances where the partner dies?

THAT ain't a divorce, Sherlock.......

[Monte1076]

11 minutes ago, RETIREDFAN1 said:

THAT ain't a divorce, Sherlock.......

No, but there are some who believe that if you get married, you're married even if your spouse dies, and therefore you're unable to remarry.

[RETIREDFAN1]

1 minute ago, Monte1076 said:

No, but there are some who believe that if you get married, you're married even if your spouse dies, and therefore you're unable to remarry.

Then they need to study God's Word.....they are wrong.......

[Lobo97]

11 minutes ago, Monte1076 said:

No, but there are some who believe that if you get married, you're married even if your spouse dies, and therefore you're unable to remarry.

'For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.'   -Romans 7:2-3

[DaveTV1]

9 hours ago, RETIREDFAN1 said:

If they are pregnant and their parents agree, there is nothing wrong with them getting married and following God's definition of family.........this was the norm until you atheists started trying to get rid of God.........

1st Corinthians 7:9 to paraphrase it is to better to be married than to burn in hell with passion.  God has not changed His mind however.  While we do have a longer lifespan today than in Biblical times or even 100 years ago.  I think it's best that marriage should not be entered into until they are at least 18.  However with 1st Corinthians 7:9 in mind if they are going to break the law of chastity they should be married to atone for the sin of fornication.  

[DaveTV1]

9 hours ago, Lobo97 said:

I am a man of faith and completely agree with the Bible’s teaching on family. The Bible also talks about protecting children, however. With that, you have to ask the question, why is a child pregnant. For a child to be pregnant, means someone did not protect that child. Majority of the time, for a child to be pregnant, an adult took advantage of them. This is not acceptable, even by God. For that reason, I do not agree that having the child be married is the right solution. 
God is also against divorce. However, there are still certain times in which he permits it, for the protection of one involved. 

If it's rape or incest then that throws it out the window.  They should have a millstone cast around their neck and thrown into the sea.  I think what RETIREDFAN1 and I agree on is if both are in love and underage, and can't keep their hands off each other enough. 

I do not agree with arranged marriages however, and the Bible is silent on it.  In Biblical times some did work to obtain their wife or wives.  See Jacob, Leah, and Rachel.  Jacob as you know became Israel and fathered the 12 tribes of Israel and had to wait 14 years to marry what would have been his child bride.  

[Lobo97]

Just now, DaveTV1 said:

If it's rape or incest then that throws it out the window.  They should have a millstone cast around their neck and thrown into the sea.  I think what RETIREDFAN1 and I agree on is if both are in love and underage, and can't keep their hands off each other enough. 

I do not agree with arranged marriages however, and the Bible is silent on it.  In Biblical times some did work to obtain their wife or wives.  See Jacob, Leah, and Rachel.  Jacob as you know became Israel and fathered the 12 tribes of Israel and had to wait 14 years to marry what would have been his child bride.  

If they’re 12 years old, they don’t know what true love is. And not being able to keep your hands off each other has more to do with lust than love, lol. 

[DaveTV1]

6 hours ago, RETIREDFAN1 said:

THAT ain't a divorce, Sherlock.......

In essence it is, until death do you part as most vows read.  

[DaveTV1]

3 minutes ago, Lobo97 said:

If they’re 12 years old, they don’t know what true love is. And not being able to keep your hands off each other has more to do with lust than love, lol. 

I'm just quoting scripture.  Who's to say they aren't in love ?  I fell in love with a girl when I was 7, and while we never became boyfriend/girlfriend I still have a place in my heart for her.  

[Lobo97]

36 minutes ago, DaveTV1 said:

I'm just quoting scripture.  Who's to say they aren't in love ?  I fell in love with a girl when I was 7, and while we never became boyfriend/girlfriend I still have a place in my heart for her.  

Which scripture are you quoting that talks about children getting married? You must be reading from the book of Joseph Smith, lol. 

[DaveTV1]

1 hour ago, Lobo97 said:

Which scripture are you quoting that talks about children getting married? You must be reading from the book of Joseph Smith, lol. 

The Bible speaks of it.  There isn't a book of Joseph Smith.  Most scholars agree that even the Virgin Mary was only 15 years old when she conceived our Lord and Savior.  

 

[Lobo97]

6 minutes ago, DaveTV1 said:

The Bible speaks of it.  There isn't a book of Joseph Smith.  Most scholars agree that even the Virgin Mary was only 15 years old when she conceived our Lord and Savior.  

 

The Bible does not speak of child marriage. It does, however, speak of marriage between a man and a woman. The belief by most scholars here, is that both have completed puberty. It also states in Matthew that the two will leave their mother and father and become one. Are 12 year olds capable of living in their own and supporting themselves? 
 

I will also reiterate, if 2 12 year olds got together intimately, then there were adults somewhere not protecting the kids. 
 

And there is a book of Joseph Smith. It’s called the Book of Mormon, which was written by Joseph Smith in 1830.