bossman1 Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, DAWG91 said: Lol. Dawgs had exactly ONE competitive game out of 16 last season which is pretty much par for the course so I get why it's fun for some to speculate, but myself, I’ll abstain Been there done that. Have a great season the rest of the way! Nice win Dawgs!!! Good Luck Mavs the rest of the year. Good Luck Lobos Edited September 16, 2023 by bossman1 1
HearEmaGrowlin Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 That’s right, I am going to distance from participating in that conversation again. Go Dawgs! Good luck Mavs and Lobos!
bmoc Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 8 hours ago, SmoakyBandito said: It was both sides. Go back and watch when Carthage FB was hit late and his helmet came off out of bounds. See how the Marshall sideline was acting. It was both teams. Both need to be better. If I recall most everthing "extra" happened on the marshall sidelines. courage in numbers maybe????
JBizzle Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 7 hours ago, Mavchamp said: he who stirs the….. licks the spoon Longview would obliterate Carthage. There is a reason UIL classifies schools. No. It’s not easier for Carthage to win a 4A title than it is for Longview to win a 5A title. They are both hard. And this is the dumbest annual conversation on Smoaky What classification is Marshall? Carthage and Longview don't play and won't play. No reason to worry about it. Longview is an outstanding program, and I don't think the Dawgs could play with them.
house Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 Marshall got down a couple scores and the flags started flying. But surratt was pretty upset with his bunch and promised attitude adjustments.
JBizzle Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 Both teams were at fault for last nights shenanigans. Coach Surratt said in his post game that they were going to address their side of it. That's all that can be done. As one poster said tho, it always happened when the play was on the Marshall sideline. Why is that? Coach Surratt will put these boys through some stuff to remind them that Carthage doesn't play like that. Also, for both teams, it was not the majority of the kids. There were plenty of guys from both teams helping their opponents off the turf after plays. Let's not miss out on that. 2
elevenDEEP Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 On 9/11/2023 at 11:44 AM, Gen7Dragon said: I doubt Carthage will score 5 td's total in the whole game. I think they will score about 24 points. you should try predicting tennis matches.... picking Dawg football scores is not your strong suit fam 1
elevenDEEP Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Mavchamp said: You would be wrong. Not making excuses. Both teams should be embarrassed about tonight. But that’s absolutely false about Marshall. It’s a shame you feel that way. Edited September 16, 2023 by elevenDEEP
cowboyandchrist Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 Carthage and Longview needs to stop. They will never play, neither team would benefit from it except injuries. Longview would just keep running fresh legs in with not much drop off than the starters. Carthage has had teams that would play very well and score. The 2019 O line for Carthage averaged 308 per man with DI talent and guarantee would move the ball on Longview along with receivers Dixon and Williams and Cortney at running back with big full back. 2017, 2020, and 2022 defense would have held the own. I say this knowing Longview would and should beat Carthage every time. Depth size and speed. Would I like to see, yes I would but only when the Dawgs had one of the above teams. I am a Lobo fan and have played tournament softball with some Lobo superstars of the past. Naming one Leo McCoy 1976 running back went to play for SMU in their hay day. I am the biggest Dawg homer there is. Longview is Longview and Carthage is Carthage both are where they are supposed to be. 1
RogerDorn Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Mavchamp said: Texas high was abysmal prior to their dropping to Div II. abysmal ? 99’-09’ Texas High went D1 every year the playoffs rolled around , I don’t think you can say they weren’t very good. 10’-17’ Texas High during those years struggled in the playoffs but go back and look at the teams they played in first round . Not many teams are winning those games. 10’ JT-Region Finals 11’ JT -Semifinals 12’ Sherman (5-5 not very good) 13’ McKinney North-3rd round 14’ JT -semifinals 15’ JT-2nd round 16’ West Mesquite(should have won) 17’ Highland Park -state champs The 2 years in D1 after the split 18’ they missed the playoffs. 19’ they beat Lufkin in first round and had the ball to go up in the 4th quarter to beat Frisco in 2nd round. I don’t necessarily agree when you say that Carthage is better than Texas High. Marshall’s best teams in the past 12/13 years were in 15’ 11-2 and Texas High beat them 28-7. In 18’ Mavs went 10-3 and got beat by Carthage 35-32. Didn’t play Texas High that year. Last year was Marshall better in week 8 when they played Texas High or in week 4 when they played Carthage ? Texas High defense wasn’t very good last year and the offense struggled after the QB went down but both teams still put up 40 points. I think Carthage 10’-17’ would have been better than Texas High probably all those years but the teams over the past 5 seasons with the new coaches have been much better than those teams they had 10’-17’. It would be a much better game to watch . Edited September 16, 2023 by RogerDorn
HearEmaGrowlin Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 So, I see this debate has also been retreaded on FB Texas High School Football for the 1,200th time. And yet again, the discussion was started by someone who isn’t a Carthage fan making it look like we’re constantly saying we can beat X team with no problem. On social media it’s way easier for non-Carthage fans to make it seem like they are a Carthage fan and start running their head purposely making Carthage fans look bad. On SDC, we all know who is who. 1
PantherNation2015 Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 1 minute ago, HearEmaGrowlin said: So, I see this debate has also been retreaded on FB Texas High School Football for the 1,200th time. And yet again, the discussion was started by someone who isn’t a Carthage fan making it look like we’re constantly saying we can beat X team with no problem. On social media it’s way easier for non-Carthage fans to make it seem like they are a Carthage fan and start running their head purposely making Carthage fans look bad. On SDC, we all know who is who. Gunter vs Carthage in Sulphur Springs 2024 & 2025?
PantherNation2015 Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, house said: How bout in Lindale. I’d be ok with that. Another great matchup I was pondering for 2024 & 2025 is Malakoff vs Carthage. That game could be home & home.
JohnnyFootball Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 How did Longview even get brought up here? Longview and Carthage don't/won't play. Same as Tyson Fury would never fight Terrence Crawford or Floyd Mayweather. They're in different classes for a reason. Not really worth our time to speculate who would win between the two. 2
PantherNation2015 Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 Just now, JohnnyFootball said: How did Longview even get brought up here? Longview and Carthage don't/won't play. Same as Tyson Fury would never fight Terrence Crawford or Floyd Mayweather. They're in different classes for a reason. Not really worth our time to speculate who would win between the two. I believe a Tyler fan asked the Marshall fans which team was better because they knew it would lead to this.
Gen7Dragon Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 2 hours ago, elevenDEEP said: you should try predicting tennis matches.... picking Dawg football scores is not your strong suit fam I admitted long beforehand that I was just talking smack. 1
Mavchamp Posted September 16, 2023 Author Posted September 16, 2023 50 minutes ago, RogerDorn said: abysmal ? 99’-09’ Texas High went D1 every year the playoffs rolled around , I don’t think you can say they weren’t very good. 10’-17’ Texas High during those years struggled in the playoffs but go back and look at the teams they played in first round . Not many teams are winning those games. 10’ JT-Region Finals 11’ JT -Semifinals 12’ Sherman (5-5 not very good) 13’ McKinney North-3rd round 14’ JT -semifinals 15’ JT-2nd round 16’ West Mesquite(should have won) 17’ Highland Park -state champs The 2 years in D1 after the split 18’ they missed the playoffs. 19’ they beat Lufkin in first round and had the ball to go up in the 4th quarter to beat Frisco in 2nd round. I don’t necessarily agree when you say that Carthage is better than Texas High. Marshall’s best teams in the past 12/13 years were in 15’ 11-2 and Texas High beat them 28-7. In 18’ Mavs went 10-3 and got beat by Carthage 35-32. Didn’t play Texas High that year. Last year was Marshall better in week 8 when they played Texas High or in week 4 when they played Carthage ? Texas High defense wasn’t very good last year and the offense struggled after the QB went down but both teams still put up 40 points. I think Carthage 10’-17’ would have been better than Texas High probably all those years but the teams over the past 5 seasons with the new coaches have been much better than those teams they had 10’-17’. It would be a much better game to watch . I was actually talking about when UIL switched to pre-determined Div I districts. That's my fault for not being clearer. And I think most would agree THS struggled in their Div I district. They were (3-7) and (5-5) in their regular seasons. They have dominated district play since going division II. We'll have to agree to disagree about Carthage/Texas High. I know more often than not our game Vs THS has been close and competitive while Carthage has blown us out since the series was revived. I don't think Carthage would need a last second FG to beat Legacy. I don't think they would have lost to Terrell or Whitehouse last season. Carthage doesn't have a typical 4A roster. They are a different animal. I have the utmost respect for the THS program. Always have. They have been the flagship 5AD-2 program for ETX. But do think Carthage is better....Just my opinion. And I also think they have benefited being in D-2 Vs. D-1. Would they be as dominate in a district with Longview, Tyler, and Lancaster and Forney? Or if they were in an I-30 5A-D1 district with all metroplex (Frisco) schools? I ]'m thinking probably not. Also an opinion. Best of luck to Carthage the rest of the way. Hope we can take this loss and apply it headed into district. Best of luck to Texas High....except for that one week in October. 2
HearEmaGrowlin Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 37 minutes ago, PantherNation2015 said: I believe a Tyler fan asked the Marshall fans which team was better because they knew it would lead to this. That’s right, we didn’t do it. There for a while us Carthage fans were eager to discuss such a hypothetical contest, but now even we have had our fill. I want Carthage and Longview to win every game they play. 2
JohnnyFootball Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 39 minutes ago, PantherNation2015 said: I believe a Tyler fan asked the Marshall fans which team was better because they knew it would lead to this. Ah. Yeah this site has gone all in on trolling now. It’s sad, but I guess it’s what Smoaky wants since people are flocking away to Twitter and other sites lol
JohnnyFootball Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, HearEmaGrowlin said: That’s right, we didn’t do it. There for a while us Carthage fans were eager to discuss such a hypothetical contest, but now even we have had our fill. I want Carthage and Longview to win every game they play. Same man. Good luck to you guys the rest of the way. I’ll be following. Same with Marshall. 1
JBizzle Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 Best of luck Mavs! There's talent there. I think they will get it worked out.
Mavchamp Posted September 16, 2023 Author Posted September 16, 2023 12 hours ago, mavfanpanamacity said: see below Marshall is a one HS town, so not comparable to Lufkin tyler, etc Lufkin is a one high school town. Where has their success been? This 1 HS town argument doesn't hold water. Not when the metro area suburban schools have dominated 5A/6A for...how long? Decades. What non suburban one HS towns have won a 5A title in 5A or 6A recently? And don't say Aledo isn't a suburban school...it's 17 miles from Fort Worth. 2022: Duncanville, DeSoto, SOC, Aledo......nope 2021: Austin Westlake, North Shore, SOC, Katy Paetow........nope 2020: Denton Ryan, Aledo, Westlake, Katy....... nope 2019: Alvin Shadow Creek, Aledo, North Shore, Westlake......nope 2018: North Shore, Longview, Highland Park, Aledo....... nope. 2017: Allen, Cy Fairbanks, Highland Park, College Station......nope 2016: Lake Travis, DeSoto, Highland Park, Aledo.....nope 2015: North Shore, Katy, George Ranch, Cedar Park.......nope 2014: Allen, Cedar Hill, Aledo, Ennis...... might could count Ennis (32 miles). 2013: Allen, Cedar Hill, Denton Guyer, Aledo.....nope 2012: Allen, Katy, Denton Guyer, Cedar Park......nope 2011: SLC, Spring DeKaney, Lake Travis, Aledo.....nope You can keep going. Won't find another non-suburban state champion in 5A/6A until Sulphur Springs in 2008. Won't find another until 2001 Lufkin. What's the common denominator 99% of the 5A/6A state champions for the last nearly 25 years? They are all suburban and almost all multi-HS districts. Longview, Lufkin, Sulphur Springs, LaMarque, Ennis, and Aledo are the outliers....but I think most people would consider LaMarque, Ennis, and Aledo as suburban schools...they are all literally in the shadow of huge metro areas. That leaves Sulphur Springs, Lufkin, and Longview. And Longview has PT, Spring Hill, and Hallsville within their city lines too. 25 years of state championships......and the suburbs have DOMINATED. Being a one HS town is no longer an advantage. Not with the advent of open enrollment. Not with parents able to move from school to school with ease without even needing to relocate. It's so easy to build a dream team in those suburbs it's insane. Not enough home-grown talent like what is forced in places like Marshall, Lufkin, etc.... not enough to compete against these dream teams. demographics have only changed in Marshall in 35+ years as far as the hispanic population has increased and whites have dropped some. That is not affecting the football performance. They haven't changed? In 1990 MISD was almost 50/50 white to black with less than 10% being hispanic. Now it's 39% hispanic, 34% black, and 22% white. That's a hispanic population that has increased almost 400% in 30 years. A black population that has nearly halved and a white population that has more than halved. We need to do a better job getting hispanics involved in football. I think we do better than some other programs...but we still need to DO EVEN BETTER. Marshall No longer competes at the highest level. We are middle of the road as far as 5A D2. Marshall dropping to 4A and then 5A D2 should have been a homerun for Marshall in a one HS town. Why was it going to be a homerun? We weren't going to magically be better than everyone else because we dropped down. Lufkin dropped. Where's their homerun? Abilene Cooper was a mainstay before dropping.....they have been silent in 5A-D2. Where's their homerun? Port Neches Groves? Texas City? Huntsville? Killeen? Killeen Ellison? Waco? Tyler? PA Memorial? Galveston Ball? All of these won in higher classifications and have had struggles in a lower class. Homerun? Money has zero to do with the state of the program. Marshall has the facilities, it has the athletes, it pays its HC very well Zero? I'll agree....our facilities are fine. And when Maverick Stadium's renovation is done our athletic facilities will be top notch across the board. But that doesn't mean money doesn't still have a chasm between the haves and have nots. Almost all starters in suburban/affluent schools attend MULTIPLE skills camps, pro camps, specialty camps. So now you have these schools not only putting together the best players in their district on their team.... they are getting superior skills training, additional snaps, additional coaching. Making them even better. Those affluent students have parents that can afford to send those kids to those kinds of camps.... several of them year round. School districts provide transportation and financial support for it too. Sure... we send a few kids to camps and elite combines.... but not the entire offensive line. Not ALL of our wide receivers. Not all of our running backs. Parents can't afford 2-3 camps (or more) a year. Let's see how many kids from Frisco....or Katy.... most suburban schools are going to camps. It's not close. Go read the 6A forums over the summer. It's eye-opening. Skills camps all year long by most of a teams roster makes a HUGE difference. Money drives a bulk of that. White flight has nothing to do with Marshall’s issues none. as far as recruiting, Marshall isn’t losing kids to other schools They are actually gaining kids There are 3 starters on Marshall that played at Elysian Fields in the past 2 years 1 starter that played at Waskom etc Elysian Fields, Jefferson, Hallsville, Tatum, Waskom ISD may disagree with your statement. We have Marshall kids on the roster of every. single. one. of. those. schools. Every. Year. That's not to say we don't get some of theirs...we do. But it's not a net gain on our part most of the time. I am confident in my determination of the main issues at Marshall I have watched it for 35 years Same mistakes made over and over and the crew in charge knows this, but instead if fixing it, they would rather be in charge and when it doesn’t work, blame the coach (that they hired behind the scenes for the most of them) but blame the Supt they hired for “making the hire” I agree that there may be some issues away from the field that have affected the program. But it's speculation on my part. Our choices for QB for the last 6-7 years have been head scratchers for me. But I can't place all the blame on them. Coaches still have to coach and players still have to perform. And both have let us down at times. And I think we still have a better program than most of the ETX 5A programs. But we are stuck in a rut that we can't seem to get out of. But I think we will. Watching our sub-varsities have me very excited about the future. No matter how good or bad the 2023 seasons goes. We knew the possibility of this being a tough year was on the table. I know for some they will never admit the issues as I laid them out, they will make list like above that really have no standing in the real issues Like I said....I think some of your concerns have validity. But the issues I've pointed out are BIGGER issues. And they are issues that fans at Longview, Tyler, Lufkin..... have talked about at great length and ad nauseum. We have to do some things we need to do to close the gap issues between most rural schools in the state and the suburban schools. and I am not trying to be a smart xxx to you or anyone else that thinks by making theses list of claims (excuses) that they are helping It just keep the ones responsible from facing responsibility I don't think you're being a smart... I think the problems are just bigger than you are willing to admit to. Sure Marshall (and all of ETX) has some internal issues but we also are fighting and losing a numbers game in a LOT of areas that make it difficult for any of us to compete at the highest level in 5A or 6A. 1
Mavchamp Posted September 16, 2023 Author Posted September 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, JBizzle said: Best of luck Mavs! There's talent there. I think they will get it worked out. We just need to be patient. Anyone paying attention to our sub-varsities should be thrilled about the future. I'm not ready to flush 2023 down the toilet. We can still have a good season. But I think what Coach A is building is from the ground up. This is a necessary growing pain season. No overnight success. 1
BevBrownJr Posted September 16, 2023 Posted September 16, 2023 11 hours ago, JTFAN99 said: Hired a young excellent coach who has stuck around for 20yrs, who runs a system that is not overly complicated and gets the most out of their talent. I am absolutely not interested in any further comparison of Longview to Carthage, but I don’t understand the sentence above. Although it’s true that LHS runs a system that is not overly complicated, I don’t believe this should be included as a factor in their consistent and tremendous success under Coach King. It seems to me that Coach Surratt at Carthage has proven that high schoolers - including East Texas high schoolers - can succeed using complex systems. 1
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